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Old 29.08.2019, 13:58
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Learning German help! WARNING this post contains alot of whining)

I do fear that I am about to open myself up to a lot of groans, I am well aware I am whining and probably sounding a bit pathetic. I have got myself well and truly stuck in the 'trough of doom' so am looking for suggestions or maybe even a kick in the pants (although make it a gentle one please). I came to Zug from UK on my own for a 6 month project with no intention to ever work in CH, three years down the line am here on a permanent contract and I have a really lovely life here and a great job. I've made various attempts to learn German as it just feels plain rude being in another country and not speaking the language (I've been to Migroschule and I am currently having private tuition at my own cost) but it's just not clicking. Not helped by the fact I am in a global role for international business and we transact in English. In Zug the moment I tried speaking German ears would bleed and they would respond to me in English so I decided to be brave and move out to Kanton Schwyz to a less international area in the hope it would force me to take the German speaking more seriously ......but I am really struggling. Why am I making this so hard for myself? I have been dating a German guy for over a year and we only speak in English and he puts no effort into helping me with the German but then expects me to be a performing monkey and speak German when we go to meet his friends and family. I am crippled by this need to be perfect and feel like a total failure when people correct me or laugh at my pronunciation. Does anyone have any quick and easy pointers on how can I attack this problem from a different perspective? I don't need German for work, it's for my real life outside work. All ideas most welcome :-)
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Old 29.08.2019, 14:08
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Re: Learning German help! WARNING this post contains alot of whining)

Maybe start out with carriage returns ;-)

Are you asking too much of yourself? Can you get by? Can you deal with day to day situations like shopping, bank, insurance, doctor? taking the car to the garage?

For me all that stuff is in FR, but same idea.. I can do all that stuff and talk to my kids school teacher and help with homework etc. My FR is still crap but I'm pretty content that I can do what I need to do.

If you can't do all that stuff then maybe target that first before trying to be perfect. If your german speaking significant other isn't willing to help then maybe that's another issue.
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Old 29.08.2019, 14:09
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Re: Learning German help! WARNING this post contains alot of whining)

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I am crippled by this need to be perfect and feel like a total failure when people correct me or laugh at my pronunciation.
I think this mindset is the killer. Nobody seriously expects a non-native speaker to speak absolutely perfectly so you shouldn't expect it of yourself. Spoken language is about communication, not perfection.

If nobody corrects you then you won't improve. If they laugh at your pronunciation then ask how it should be pronounced - if necessary ask them to repeat it 20 times . If they still laugh then ask them to pronounce various tricky English words. "Bluetooth" for example is difficult for French speakers, but you could easily find a list of words that are hard for German speakers. Fight fire with fire

As far as your boyfriend goes, from experience once you've kicked off a multilingual relationship in one language it's pretty difficult to start using the other one, although you could try having one day German and the next English. I find formal lessons helpful for learning the grammar but constant speaking practise is absolutely critical.
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Old 29.08.2019, 14:28
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Re: Learning German help! WARNING this post contains alot of whining)

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If they laugh at your pronunciation then ask how it should be pronounced - if necessary ask them to repeat it 20 times . If they still laugh then ask them to pronounce various tricky English words. "Bluetooth" for example is difficult for French speakers, but you could easily find a list of words that are hard for German speakers. Fight fire with fire
Try to teach an Italian speaker to say 'squirrel'.

My sister made up one for my wife "Earl the squirrel is a girl who twirls her pearls"!

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Old 29.08.2019, 14:46
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Re: Learning German help! WARNING this post contains alot of whining)

  1. My German teacher taught us to start out in German. Then, when someone switched to English, to reply: "Ich möchte Deutsch lernen. Bitte helfen Sie mir." If the person persisted in English, to say: "Sie können English. Ich kann auch Englisch. Ich möchte Deutsch lernen. Bitte sprechen sie mit mir Deutch. Langsam, bitte. Danke." With strangers, such a shop assistants, etc., this almost always works. Don't back down, just go slowly.

  2. With someone with whom you usually speak English, it can help to designate one evening a week, or so, or one field of activity, such as cooking tonight's supper together, to German. Every time he drifts off into English, repeat as above. Of course, within a relationship, this only works if the other person really does want to help you.

  3. Pick someone with whom you have regular, brief dealings, outside of your professional context. Let's say the kiosk-woman at the bus-stop, or the baker, or the caretaker of the building, or better still someone who is already retired and perhaps a little lonely. Learn one or two phrases a week, drill them till you know you've mastered those, and then practice them each week on those people. Bit by bit, they will notice your progress, and that little everyday chit-chat, stronger and more intereresting (as your expression improves) week by week, can be very motivating, without the pressure of "having to perform". If you are lucky enough to find a few such people who actually cannot speak English, so much the better.

  4. Join a local club/group where they do something which interests you, or which you've never tried before.
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Old 29.08.2019, 14:59
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Re: Learning German help! WARNING this post contains alot of whining)

One thing that has helped me a lot is listening to the radio. When I first started it was more like white noise for me, but you gradually start to pick up words. Then one day you're listening and you find yourself laughing at something that was said, and you realise you understand the gist of it.

I like SRF 4 as it's pretty much constant news and opinions, otherwise there's a great app called News in Slow German, which is exactly that 😉 You sign up online and then you can use the app. You can try out bits of it on Spotify first.

Let it wash over you at first, but at least you'll be getting a feel for how it sounds and how the sentences are constructed.
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Old 29.08.2019, 15:15
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Re: Learning German help! WARNING this post contains alot of whining)

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I have been dating a German guy for over a year and we only speak in English and he puts no effort into helping me with the German but then expects me to be a performing monkey and speak German when we go to meet his friends and family
This happens a lot when one partner speaks fluent German and English and the other doesn't.
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Old 29.08.2019, 15:20
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Re: Learning German help! WARNING this post contains alot of whining)

In Schindellegi you can practice your German at the butcher, the baker, the candlestick maker flower shop. Also at the Spar, at the wonderful Adler restaurant, and the Curry-Abend at the Hirschen, and of course at the Post.

Seriously - that was my husband's 'Sprachschule'. He, too, works in an English-only company, travels frequently, and the demands of his job leave no free time to take formal classes. So instead he runs the village errands on Saturday mornings.

The butcher, baker, florist, grocer, the post office staff, and delightful restuarant owners are happy to put up with OH's ear-bleeding German without breaking into English. His German is far from grammatically correct, but errand running made it functional - and that's all that really counts*.

I'm less outgoing than my husband and so it was harder for me to babble around town, conscious as I was of my mistakes. I understand how hard it is to charge ahead, and really do empathize.

What turned the corner for me was the Hundeschule. This is my passion, so when talking mutts I find I forget my self-consciousness and blither away, mistakes and all. I guess I've absorbed the correct way to say some things listening to my trainer and classmates, meaning that my 'Hundedeutsch' is far better than the rest of my German.

So my advice: Get involved in a hobby, something you enjoy, an area where you are already confident of the subject matter, auf Deutsch. It's a huge confidence booster.

What are your interests? Perhaps we could help you find a local club...






*Although there was the time grammatical mistakes landed me in the hospital...
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Old 29.08.2019, 15:48
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Re: Learning German help! WARNING this post contains alot of whining)

I get it. I hated German at school, could never get my head round the rationale behind all the stupid cases and their multitude of different endings with nouns adjectives etc. Like you I worked in English so didn't need to learn German, so I struggled for some years.

The breakthrough came when I stopped giving a damn if I was correct or not - if you know the verbs and nouns you need, just string them together in any way that sounds like it makes sense to your English brain - you will be understood, and you won't be laughed at for getting it 'wrong'.

A slight advantage with Swiss German is that in its spoken form the articles and sometimes case endings are often shortened anyway, so I got into the habit if just using d' for der, die, das or whatever, and it really worked.

Some years later, once I'd got a bit more familiar with all the words, I took some proper lessons and eventually got better at the grammar, but only by being really awkward and insisting that it was exaplained why a particular case was used in a particular example, not just trying to absorb it because the teacher said so. That's my learning style, and it's not the best way for learning German, but if that's how your brain works...

But for now just concentrate on learning vocabulary - as much as you can - and using it however it comes out. To restate it - you will be understood even if your grammar is crap, and with that will come more confidence to carry on trying. Also listen for corrections and try to adapt, but don't get hung up about it.
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Old 29.08.2019, 15:49
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Re: Learning German help! WARNING this post contains alot of whining)

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I do fear that I am about to open myself up to a lot of groans, I am well aware I am whining and probably sounding a bit pathetic. I have got myself well and truly stuck in the 'trough of doom' so am looking for suggestions or maybe even a kick in the pants (although make it a gentle one please). I came to Zug from UK on my own for a 6 month project with no intention to ever work in CH, three years down the line am here on a permanent contract and I have a really lovely life here and a great job. I've made various attempts to learn German as it just feels plain rude being in another country and not speaking the language (I've been to Migroschule and I am currently having private tuition at my own cost) but it's just not clicking. Not helped by the fact I am in a global role for international business and we transact in English. In Zug the moment I tried speaking German ears would bleed and they would respond to me in English so I decided to be brave and move out to Kanton Schwyz to a less international area in the hope it would force me to take the German speaking more seriously ......but I am really struggling. Why am I making this so hard for myself? I have been dating a German guy for over a year and we only speak in English and he puts no effort into helping me with the German but then expects me to be a performing monkey and speak German when we go to meet his friends and family. I am crippled by this need to be perfect and feel like a total failure when people correct me or laugh at my pronunciation. Does anyone have any quick and easy pointers on how can I attack this problem from a different perspective? I don't need German for work, it's for my real life outside work. All ideas most welcome :-)



Only accept sex in German, he'l soon start speaking to you in German
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Old 29.08.2019, 16:30
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Re: Learning German help! WARNING this post contains alot of whining)

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This happens a lot when one partner speaks fluent German and English and the other doesn't.
My daughter's husband speaks fluent Swiss-German, French, Italian and English, she just Italian and English, so they normally speak Italian, despite living in Aargau!

(though they normally speak English with me, meanwhile his mother normally speaks French with his brother as it's better than her Italian and his brother's wife doesn't speak German!)

Tom
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Old 29.08.2019, 17:07
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Re: Learning German help! WARNING this post contains alot of whining)

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All ideas most welcome :-)
German pronounciation can be tricky for non natives, but eventually can be mastered quite.

My OH (tough russian native) learned to pronounce german by reading books out loud, while I was listening and correcting her pronounciation. When I wasn't arround, she recorded herself doing this and listened to it (or sent it to one of her classmates from the Deutschschule) and they corrected each other.
Recording and listeing to yourself can be ultra-cringe, but it will help you.
We started with children books due the easier vocab and slowly increased the difficulty. And we did this daily (20-30 Minutes is enough).
Co-Benefit is that she increased her vocab in this and got a better "feeling" for the language (dunno how to explain it better).

To get better with german (generally)
1) Listen to german music & watch german TV/watch german youtube clips (daily) - this will help you to get an ear for the language
2) Practice german (daily) - Use every chance to use your german

- Insist your OH to speak german with you and to correct you. This can be tiring and frustrating at the beginning, but is crucial for your progress
- Ask the natives at your work to talk german to you for any non-work related topics

TLDR: Practice your german daily, and force your BF to support you. And remember:Без труда не вытащишь и рыбку из пруда!
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Old 29.08.2019, 18:03
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Re: Learning German help! WARNING this post contains alot of whining)

Apologies for that initial block of text, I put it down to a mad moment of complete and utter panic.


A genuine thanks for all the really helpful and pragmatic advice.


In terms of a hobby group, is there such a thing as Swiss Ramblers?


I also think it's time for a more sensible discussion with the German :-)


Thank you - I feel soooo much calmer already, I might even get down off the ceiling
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Old 29.08.2019, 18:16
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Re: Learning German help! WARNING this post contains alot of whining)

Maybe this?
https://www.wanderforum.ch/2017/03/1...ch-samstagern/
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Old 29.08.2019, 18:33
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Re: Learning German help! WARNING this post contains alot of whining)

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I do fear that I am about to open myself up to a lot of groans, I am well aware I am whining and probably sounding a bit pathetic.

I have got myself well and truly stuck in the 'trough of doom' so am looking for suggestions or maybe even a kick in the pants (although make it a gentle one please). I came to Zug from UK on my own for a 6 month project with no intention to ever work in CH, three years down the line am here on a permanent contract and I have a really lovely life here and a great job.

I've made various attempts to learn German as it just feels plain rude being in another country and not speaking the language (I've been to Migroschule and I am currently having private tuition at my own cost) but it's just not clicking. Not helped by the fact I am in a global role for international business and we transact in English. In Zug the moment I tried speaking German ears would bleed and they would respond to me in English so I decided to be brave and move out to Kanton Schwyz to a less international area in the hope it would force me to take the German speaking more seriously ......but I am really struggling.

Why am I making this so hard for myself? I have been dating a German guy for over a year and we only speak in English and he puts no effort into helping me with the German but then expects me to be a performing monkey and speak German when we go to meet his friends and family.

I am crippled by this need to be perfect and feel like a total failure when people correct me or laugh at my pronunciation. Does anyone have any quick and easy pointers on how can I attack this problem from a different perspective? I don't need German for work, it's for my real life outside work.

All ideas most welcome :-)
You're welcome.

Leave your boyfriend. He is a dick, but apparently doesn't have one. It is entirely normal that if you are in an almost exclusively English speaking environment, your German is unlikely to improve. I'm quite good at languages, so over 17 years and a few courses, I've managed to absorb enough to be B1/B2. While I see people who've been here 5 years and are fluent. Difference is, my working environment is English.

Tip: when you send an email to a German speaking colleague, write in German.
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Old 29.08.2019, 19:10
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Re: Learning German help! WARNING this post contains alot of whining)

I am a bit like you, I am also moving to Kanton Schwyz so I have to lear a new word: Schwyz.
I just can't say it correctly

Some things are easy for some and not for others.
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Old 29.08.2019, 22:18
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Re: Learning German help! WARNING this post contains alot of whining)

People over 50 have a much more difficult time learning a new language. Don't be too hard on yourself.
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Old 30.08.2019, 12:23
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Re: Learning German help! WARNING this post contains alot of whining)

You've taken classes, employed a private tutor, moved to an area that gives you more opportunity to speak the local language and brave enough to post on English Forum to ask advice. You get an A for effort.

TBH, I think your problem is the boyfriend, not your aptitude for language.
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Old 30.08.2019, 12:48
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Re: Learning German help! WARNING this post contains alot of whining)

OP, I understand you completely. Even after being here 12 years my Germans is still crap. I learnt Spanish when I was younger really easily, and when I'm in France I can put a sentence together based on early French lessons at school decades ago. I reckon I could also learn Italian quite easily, so I put it down to my brain being wired for Latin based languages. Even now when I learn a new Spanish word it sticks, with German sometimes 10 minutes later I can't remember it or the meaning. I also work mostly in English and amongst my international group of friends the common language is English.

I sell food, mostly beer and cheese, and get by fine with those subjects. (I can always make a German speaker laugh when I declare "Ich spreche nur käse deutsch"). But beyond that I always struggle. So I find that I can learn vocabulary better if the subject is something I know and like. For example I try to find Leeds Utd football games on TV with German commentary. I like Sherlock Holmes stories, so i have CD's of dramatisations of them in German. etc These all help and my German is improving, but very, very slowly.

But a lot of it is confidence. I find if I'm speaking to someone who speaks no English at all, my German is much better (it was the same with Spanish, even though my Spanish is quite good, if the other person speaks English better, my confidence goes). But try not to worry about how you sound and how bad your grammar is, locals like the way us Brits speak German. Whenever I speak German and then apologise because it's so bad they always smile and say "oh no, your German is great and it sounds so lovely!"

But then again I usually apologise whilst doing my impersonation of Hugh Grant.
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Old 30.08.2019, 16:08
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Re: Learning German help! WARNING this post contains alot of whining)

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In terms of a hobby group, is there such a thing as Swiss Ramblers?
Which do you want to learn - German and Swiss German? I know a work colleague who joined the local band, her she now understand the locals, but her German is just as bad as ever.

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I also think it's time for a more sensible discussion with the German :-)
This.
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