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Old 28.07.2020, 10:37
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Swiss German expressions ... any help?

Hello,
I'm a German-English translator doing a text on a place called Vals. The normal German part is fine, but I'm baffled by a few local Vals expressions:



Hüt muoss i z’Loch uss
Was alls z’Loch iecha chunnt

Jetz muoss i hei
Äärz Buoba
I säg dier de scho, wa Gott hockt


Can anyone even hazard a guess at these?


Also, anyone heard of a local kids' game called 'Schgattla schlaa'?


Many thanks!
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Old 28.07.2020, 11:07
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Re: Swiss German expressions ... any help?

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Hello,
I'm a German-English translator doing a text on a place called Vals. The normal German part is fine, but I'm baffled by a few local Vals expressions:



Hüt muoss i z’Loch uss
Was alls z’Loch iecha chunnt

Jetz muoss i hei
Äärz Buoba
I säg dier de scho, wa Gott hockt


Can anyone even hazard a guess at these?


Also, anyone heard of a local kids' game called 'Schgattla schlaa'?


Many thanks!
I'm hoping one of our Swiss members can help, but from my broken understanding of german there are a few bits I think I understand. This would get me an F in school I think.

Today i must go to the Loch,
What all "No idea"

Now I must go home,
"No idea"
I say to you already, what god "hockt"

I'm afraid this shows more of my lack of Swiss german than anything.
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Old 28.07.2020, 11:18
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Re: Swiss German expressions ... any help?

Thanks very much, that sheds a bit of light.


Apparently a 'Loch' is a tunnel locally, but there's no way of knowing that if you're not from that village.


Hopefully someone else might be able to fill in the gaps, but thanks again all the same for replying.
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Old 28.07.2020, 11:22
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Re: Swiss German expressions ... any help?

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Hüt muoss i z’Loch uss
Was alls z’Loch iecha chunnt
We drink till we puke.

Today, must go out of the hole,
all what goes into the hole.

Depending on context it could be something less sinister.

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Jetz muoss i hei
Äärz Buoba
I säg dier de scho, wa Gott hockt
Now, I must go home,
??? boys
I will tell you where God thrones.

The last one is not a theological question. Just as "to read someone the levites" (jemanden die Leviten lesen) does neither mean that you actually read from the Book of Leviticus. It is more akin to "I will show you were Barthel gets its cider" (Ich zeige Dir wo Barthel den Most holt https://de.wiktionary.org/wiki/wisse..._den_Most_holt )
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Old 28.07.2020, 11:31
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Re: Swiss German expressions ... any help?

Terrific, thank you!


One last small thing actually, could 'Baschli' be a local variant of 'Barbara' in the following? This is talking about visiting chapels.



... geheimnisvolle Rendezvous in Stille und Ruhe mit dem Heiligen Martin, dem Heiligen „Baschli“ – mit der Heiligen Barbara, der Gottes Mutter Maria.
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Old 28.07.2020, 11:42
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Re: Swiss German expressions ... any help?

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One last small thing actually, could 'Baschli' be a local variant of 'Barbara' in the following? This is talking about visiting chapels.

... geheimnisvolle Rendezvous in Stille und Ruhe mit dem Heiligen Martin, dem Heiligen „Baschli“ – mit der Heiligen Barbara, der Gottes Mutter Maria.
More like St. Sebastian. Baschi is a common short form for Sebastian.
We also know that Saint "Baschli" is male, otherwise it must be "der Heilligen „Baschli“.

Also St. Sebastian is celebrated in Vals
https://www.feiertagskalender.ch/fei...o=3056&ft_id=8
and depicted in the main church
https://www.kirchen-online.com/conte...-und-paul.html
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Old 28.07.2020, 11:48
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Re: Swiss German expressions ... any help?

You make a strong case for Sebastian, will go with that.


Thanks for getting me out of a Loch here, much appreciated.
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Old 28.07.2020, 14:08
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Re: Swiss German expressions ... any help?

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Äärz Buoba


Also, anyone heard of a local kids' game called 'Schgattla schlaa'?
You have already received many ideas. I will add two:

Äärz Buoba: could be "Erz-Knaben". They were digging for Erz (ore). So there might have been a Bergwerk (mine) which could explain the "Loch"

Also "Schgattla schlaa" does remind me of "Schiitli um" which is a game that we played a lot as Children. I have found some description in German
Für «Schiitli um» braucht Ihr ein Stück Holz oder ein anderes Objekt das ihr umkicken könnt. Auch hier darf sich der Fänger frei bewegen. Aber passt auf! Sobald sich der Fänger zu weit vom Stück Holz entfernt, können die Anderen aus ihren Verstecken kommen und das Stück Holz umkicken. Gelingt es ihnen, wurden alle frei geschlagen und der Fänger hat verloren. Der Fänger kann sie aber auch auf dem Weg zum Stück Holz einfangen. Sobald er alle Gefangen hat, hat er gewonnen. from here https://www.pfadibaar.ch/images/file...Ausgabe_08.pdf
(short translation into English: there are two or more teams. One team is the guard of a wooden "triangle" and the other try to destroy the wooden triangle. Once it falls, all the ones who were captured are freed.)
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Old 28.07.2020, 14:44
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Re: Swiss German expressions ... any help?

It must be Scottish Gaelic for "Let's all go to the Loch to get pissed"!!
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Old 28.07.2020, 14:45
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Re: Swiss German expressions ... any help?

Maybe give the full context instead of snippets.
Have you got a document to translate which contains these sentences ?

Vals, Graubünden is well known as a holiday destination, stone, and a mineral water source.
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Old 28.07.2020, 16:09
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Re: Swiss German expressions ... any help?

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You have already received many ideas. I will add two:

Äärz Buoba: could be "Erz-Knaben". They were digging for Erz (ore). So there might have been a Bergwerk (mine) which could explain the "Loch"

Also "Schgattla schlaa" does remind me of "Schiitli um" which is a game that we played a lot as Children.
Also known as "Schiitli verbannis". It is a game of catch and hide and seek. Often you use a pyramid made with three sticks. The seeking "team" is usually just one single person. To call out a hidden person which was found (which must be done at the pyramid) is known as "anschlagen".


But it could also be "Pflöckle"


Be aware that scouts two know two other kind of Pflöckle, one is removing all the tent pegs during the night and the other a rather questionable disciplinary measure https://www.sueddeutsche.de/panorama...piel-1.2250396
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Old 28.07.2020, 19:35
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Re: Swiss German expressions ... any help?

I give my version.


Hüt muoss i z’Loch uss
Today I must get out of the house.


Was alls z’Loch iecha chunnt
The door into the house. (z'lock iecha chunnt)

Jetz muoss i hei
Now I must go home.


Äärz Buoba
Do you have a boy?


I säg dier de scho, wa Gott hockt
I will tell you where the church is.

Can anyone even hazard a guess at these?


Also, anyone heard of a local kids' game called 'Schgattla schlaa'?
Beating the box. Schgattla means box and schlaa is beating .

I hope this helps.
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Old 28.07.2020, 21:19
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Re: Swiss German expressions ... any help?

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I säg dier de scho, wa Gott hockt
This is usually pronounced, like,
"I zeig dier de scho, wo Gott hockt"
or, with a slightly different pronounciation
"I zäg dier de scho, wo Gott hockt"

Two possible meanings:
"I'll show you who's boss" (of course the speaker is) by doing whatever the situation warrants
or
"I'll teach you to behave" (often by use of force, beatings)
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Old 29.07.2020, 09:40
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Re: Swiss German expressions ... any help?

I managed to get some more context for these:


„Hüt muoss i z’Loch uss“, sagen wir Valser und meinen damit die anstehende Fahrt nach Ilanz oder Chur. „Was alls z’Loch iecha chunnt!“, ist dann eher kritisch gedacht und drückt unsere Zurückhaltung gegenüber dem Fremden aus.



Es „leids“ Valser Sprichwort sagt: „I säg dier de scho, wa Gott hockt!“. Es ist sicher nicht stellvertretend für unsere Nähe zu Gott, aber ein Funken Wahrheit ist wohl dabei.



'I'll teach you to behave' puts a very different light on the latter.

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Old 29.07.2020, 10:31
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Re: Swiss German expressions ... any help?

Something else, any ideas for Glöggligebimmel as in the following (about Christmas)?



Geschenke ... passend ausgewählt und unter „Glöggligebimmel“ hingelegt.


Some kind of bell?
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Old 29.07.2020, 11:10
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Re: Swiss German expressions ... any help?

Glöggli = small bell. (High German: Glöcklein, diminutive of Glocke)
Gebimmel = chiming sound (noun).

Put together it means the sound made by small bells or a small bell.

Like in Roman Catholic liturgy where altar bells are used to signify the presence of Christ, a bell is also used when the Christkind https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christkind brings the presents for Christmas.

But not only presents it even decorates the whole tree. Poor lad and you thought Santa Clause has a hell of a job? Once finishend it rings a bell, so the kids now what has happened.

https://www.luzernerzeitung.ch/zentr...ung-ld.1177705

https://www.derbund.ch/bern/stadt/da...story/30806489


Es het es Glöggli glütet,
Ich weiss, was das bedütet,
Ich darf id Stube gah.
Jetz staht es Böimli da.

Mit viellne guete Sache,
Wie tuet mer s'Härzli lache!
S lieb Christchindli isch cho,
Drum bin ich halt so froh.
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Old 29.07.2020, 13:02
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Re: Swiss German expressions ... any help?

Thanks very much for taking the time to help.
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Old 30.07.2020, 06:28
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Re: Swiss German expressions ... any help?

Some more things I'm afraid:

An old farmer reminiscing:

“Z’Puurä escht früener halt ganz anderscht gsi.”

"Ds Schtellä, wie me dem Zögle vom Veh gseit hät, escht je nach dem en heikli Gschecht gsi"

Also on farming:
Tachli ('Ställe und Tachli) - some sort of shed?
Tuechli: ('einige Tuechli Heu') - small bales of hay?

Also the last sentence here:
Es gab Zeiten, wo kein Geld für die weiteren Planungsschritte mehr da war und es gab einen Zeitpunkt, wo der Architekt erklärte: „Zurück zum Anfang, auf Punkt Null! Vergesst das Geplante. Es führt in die Irre.“ Noch heute berichten Valser von dieser Kehrtwende: „Ja, er hät nich dua alls uber de Huuffa triba und nomal va vorna agfanga.“

Does this make any sense to anyone?
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Old 30.07.2020, 08:29
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Re: Swiss German expressions ... any help?

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Some more things I'm afraid:

An old farmer reminiscing:

“Z’Puurä escht früener halt ganz anderscht gsi.”
Farming was completely different in the past.

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"Ds Schtellä, wie me dem Zögle vom Veh gseit hät, escht je nach dem en heikli Gschecht gsi"
Moving livestock, called Schtellä in those days, was a very tricky thing at times.

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Also on farming:
Tachli ('Ställe und Tachli) - some sort of shed?
Tuechli: ('einige Tuechli Heu') - small bales of hay?
Tachli (Tächli) is a roof. Minimal protection for the livestock from sun and precipitation. Often placed close by a water source, perhaps with some straw on the ground to keep moisture away at night from resting animals.

Tuechli ... literally a piece of cloth, "ein kleines Tuch". To take the hay from areas that are accessible by foot only, heaps are put in nets to carry them on the back. Looks like in your case cloth is used for the heaps instead.
Dangerous and arduous work.
Like so.

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Also the last sentence here:
Es gab Zeiten, wo kein Geld für die weiteren Planungsschritte mehr da war und es gab einen Zeitpunkt, wo der Architekt erklärte: „Zurück zum Anfang, auf Punkt Null! Vergesst das Geplante. Es führt in die Irre.“ Noch heute berichten Valser von dieser Kehrtwende: „Ja, er hät nich dua alls uber de Huuffa triba und nomal va vorna agfanga.“

Does this make any sense to anyone?
At times there was no money for the next planning steps, and at one point the architect declared:"Back to the beginning, to the starting point. Forget the plans. They lead astray." The Valser speak of this U-turn until today:"Yes, he ?? (didn't overdo things?) and began anew."

There's that figure of speech "über den Haufen schmeissen", literally "throw things over the heap", i.e. stop the process and undo what's been done (and start from scratch if appliable). Literally, I understand the ?? section as, like, "er hat nicht alles über den Haufen getrieben" (perhaps: he didn't push things too far) but that term feels odd.

Last edited by Urs Max; 30.07.2020 at 09:00.
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Old 30.07.2020, 10:14
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Re: Swiss German expressions ... any help?

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“Z’Puurä escht früener halt ganz anderscht gsi.”
Farming has been in the past quiet different.

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"Ds Schtellä, wie me dem Zögle vom Veh gseit hät, escht je nach dem en heikli Gschecht gsi"
De "Setting", as they called the moving of livestock, was depending on the circumstances a difficult endeavor.

Stellen is when you move the cows from one hay shed or barn to the next where you have stored the all the hay from summer so you can feed the cows in winter time. Considering it was done when there was snow it must have been quite cumbersome an dangerous.

See also "stellen" in the DWB by Brothers Grimm, then use your browser to search for "stella" or davos on the page.
http://woerterbuchnetz.de/cgi-bin/WB...44159#XGS44159

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Also on farming:
Tachli ('Ställe und Tachli) - some sort of shed?
A Tachli (there is no "ä") is a small hay shed.
Looks like this: https://goo.gl/maps/QWBuA4fswBXbfRJM6

The were all the way up to 2000 m over the sea level. That is were they moved the cows to
https://map.geo.admin.ch/?lang=en&to...3092.45&zoom=9

The little L shapes on the map denotes a ruin. (U shape if you zoom in). Properly most of them were Tachli. Only a few remain. Still, even today cutting grass and getting the hay down to the valley is a dangerous and laborious job. https://www.tagblatt.ch/ostschweiz/w...ren-ld.1042122
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