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  #21  
Old 01.04.2021, 09:01
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Re: Translation of "managing someone out"

I’ve been talking to a nurse friend who worked for many years at the HUG in Geneva. She now works at the CHUV in Lausanne.

She tells me she left the HUG because of the Frontalier clique there. She’s ex-pat Dutch and she says it didn’t matter what she did she couldn’t break through to the majority who cross the border every day. Promotions went to those in the clique as did training opportunities. The best shifts, the ability to extend long-weekends, etc were pretty well denied to the non-french.

Apparently the clique extends to all the hospitals in Geneva and some in neighbouring Vaud (Nyon & Rolle were mentioned). If you are blackballed by one group your next job, if you could get it, would be hell.

Apparently the Canton(s) are aware of the problem but appear helpless to do anything about it.

Mobbing, pure and simple.
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  #22  
Old 01.04.2021, 09:21
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Re: Translation of "managing someone out"

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I personally wouldn't bother with HR, just go talk to a doctor and get yourself signed out on burnout, as they call it here. Breakdown in the UK. Look it up. don't wait you'll regret it if you do.

I stayed in a role with an abusive manager and it cost me my health in the end. I no longer work there, but still have health issues. Don't make the same mistake I made and try and ride it out. You get at least six months on burnout, maybe more, beyond which they will release you and you can signup for chomage.

Start looking for a new job/role as soon as you walk out the door. You only live once and life is too short to spend it working with unpleasant people.
Can you provide a bit more information on this topic and what you mean by burnout getting you six months? Was this first hand experience or something else?

I have heard stories of people getting two days off from burnout so I dont see a situation where six months off is easy to get as you say.

Can you give some details on how long and how hard it was for you to get the six months leave?

These are troubling times and lots of people are anxious so I think a lot of people would be interested in this
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  #23  
Old 01.04.2021, 09:56
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Re: Translation of "managing someone out"

You get your Doctor to “sign you off” due to the stress. It might only be a percentage of the time; 20%; 50%. Then you are officially on sick leave for that time.
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  #24  
Old 01.04.2021, 10:21
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Re: Translation of "managing someone out"

Mobbing happens in Switzerland because the Swiss don't like confrontation and so they hope to make an employee miserable enough to resign on their own. The best thing you can do if you are being mobbed is to be as direct and confrontational with your manager as possible so as to force them to make the decision to terminate you. You need to know 2 things in advance: (i) Never ever resign. Always get them to fire you. This way you are less likely to suffer any penalties with with RAV. And (ii) always let your manager know, after you have been terminated, that you have spoken to a lawyer and you will not tolerate a misleading reference letter and will sue if the company/manager plays any games. Once a company/manager realizes that you know how the rules of the game work in Bünzliland they will likely move to terminate you (relief for all parties) and give you a good work reference and move you on your way.
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  #25  
Old 01.04.2021, 10:49
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Re: Translation of "managing someone out"

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I’ve been talking to a nurse friend who worked for many years at the HUG in Geneva. She now works at the CHUV in Lausanne.

She tells me she left the HUG because of the Frontalier clique there. She’s ex-pat Dutch and she says it didn’t matter what she did she couldn’t break through to the majority who cross the border every day. Promotions went to those in the clique as did training opportunities. The best shifts, the ability to extend long-weekends, etc were pretty well denied to the non-french.

Apparently the clique extends to all the hospitals in Geneva and some in neighbouring Vaud (Nyon & Rolle were mentioned). If you are blackballed by one group your next job, if you could get it, would be hell.

Apparently the Canton(s) are aware of the problem but appear helpless to do anything about it.

Mobbing, pure and simple.

Thanks, that's also my understanding of how things work.
Would you be able to ask your friend for details of where she will have to go to escape the French frontalier mafia that dominate HUG? Neither she nor I were aware it extended into Vaud, so would like to know which hospitals and organisations are concerned there.
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  #26  
Old 01.04.2021, 10:53
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Re: Translation of "managing someone out"

Clearly, we need to ban cross-border workers!

Tom
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  #27  
Old 01.04.2021, 11:35
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Re: Translation of "managing someone out"

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Thanks, that's also my understanding of how things work.
Would you be able to ask your friend for details of where she will have to go to escape the French frontalier mafia that dominate HUG? Neither she nor I were aware it extended into Vaud, so would like to know which hospitals and organisations are concerned there.
I suspect it is the hospitals with lots of frontaliers. She went to the CHUV which has some but not in the proportions in Geneva; La Côte. Next time I have a chance to chat I'll ask her.
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Old 01.04.2021, 11:48
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Re: Translation of "managing someone out"

Only know one HR manager - very much an EU expat (not French)- and she candidly told me that in her large American firm, she only hires frontaliers. Must admit I was quite shocked.
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  #29  
Old 01.04.2021, 12:45
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Re: Translation of "managing someone out"

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Only know one HR manager - very much an EU expat (not French)- and she candidly told me that in her large American firm, she only hires frontaliers. Must admit I was quite shocked.
I think at HUG the HR people try to hire non-French, but so many of the "little" bosses in whose teams the new hires are placed are French that it doesn't work - the little bosses set about making the life of the new non-French recruits a misery and eventually they leave or are fired for dubious reasons - over time the effect is more and more French.
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