Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Help & tips > Language corner  
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 05.08.2021, 22:52
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: Vaud
Posts: 257
Groaned at 8 Times in 7 Posts
Thanked 112 Times in 77 Posts
Gravity has earned the respect of manyGravity has earned the respect of manyGravity has earned the respect of many
at which level B1/B2/C1/C2 people can handle dictation in French?

I thought that maybe I could improve my writing skills and listening abilities by practicing dictations. However, trying one from www.ladictee.fr was like cold shower on my enthusiasm

First of all, there's the huge ambiguity about what you hear, which you can only resolve somehow after hearing the whole sentence. Then there is a lot of guessing about the singular/plural. Finally when you don't know a word it's impossible to figure it out, what you can produce is just a best guess (or a few guesses) of what's the prefix of the word but you never can produce the full word because of silent suffix.

So I really wonder how is it possible to get through dication in Frech. I would bet that whoever can pass it, has a level C1 at least
This user would like to thank Gravity for this useful post:
  #2  
Old 05.08.2021, 23:00
st2lemans's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lugano
Posts: 31,788
Groaned at 2,368 Times in 1,722 Posts
Thanked 38,746 Times in 18,256 Posts
st2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond repute
Re: at which level B1/B2/C1/C2 people can handle dictation in French?

A0, at least for me.

Tom
  #3  
Old 05.08.2021, 23:18
olygirl's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: d' Innerschwiiz
Posts: 7,317
Groaned at 397 Times in 264 Posts
Thanked 17,234 Times in 5,298 Posts
olygirl has a reputation beyond reputeolygirl has a reputation beyond reputeolygirl has a reputation beyond reputeolygirl has a reputation beyond reputeolygirl has a reputation beyond reputeolygirl has a reputation beyond repute
Re: at which level B1/B2/C1/C2 people can handle dictation in French?

Dictation is a great way to practice your spelling while concentrating on sentence structure, grammar and vocabulary. If your listening to A1 French, you should be able to dictate it. The dictation should reflect the level you are at while adding a few additional structures to increase your fluency.
  #4  
Old 05.08.2021, 23:26
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: Vaud
Posts: 257
Groaned at 8 Times in 7 Posts
Thanked 112 Times in 77 Posts
Gravity has earned the respect of manyGravity has earned the respect of manyGravity has earned the respect of many
Re: at which level B1/B2/C1/C2 people can handle dictation in French?

Quote:
View Post
A0, at least for me.

Tom
And somehow everything what's dictated is endless loop of: comment ça va, comme si comme si comme si comme sa
  #5  
Old 05.08.2021, 23:28
olygirl's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: d' Innerschwiiz
Posts: 7,317
Groaned at 397 Times in 264 Posts
Thanked 17,234 Times in 5,298 Posts
olygirl has a reputation beyond reputeolygirl has a reputation beyond reputeolygirl has a reputation beyond reputeolygirl has a reputation beyond reputeolygirl has a reputation beyond reputeolygirl has a reputation beyond repute
Re: at which level B1/B2/C1/C2 people can handle dictation in French?

Quote:
View Post
And somehow everything what's dictated is endless loop of: comment ça va, comme si comme si comme si comme sa
Tom is a linguistic genius. Must be a side effect of the horse meat.
  #6  
Old 05.08.2021, 23:37
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: Vaud
Posts: 257
Groaned at 8 Times in 7 Posts
Thanked 112 Times in 77 Posts
Gravity has earned the respect of manyGravity has earned the respect of manyGravity has earned the respect of many
Re: at which level B1/B2/C1/C2 people can handle dictation in French?

Quote:
View Post
Dictation is a great way to practice your spelling while concentrating on sentence structure, grammar and vocabulary. If your listening to A1 French, you should be able to dictate it. The dictation should reflect the level you are at while adding a few additional structures to increase your fluency.
So I'm also probably at A0 level, that's why

but seriously speaking, seeing how difficult it is I got the feeling that it's impossible below B2, i.e. before your know large vocabulary set and the grammar is so well grounded in your head that you tend to forget it exists
  #7  
Old 06.08.2021, 00:11
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: VD
Posts: 405
Groaned at 6 Times in 4 Posts
Thanked 432 Times in 222 Posts
AnnaSophiaA has a reputation beyond reputeAnnaSophiaA has a reputation beyond reputeAnnaSophiaA has a reputation beyond reputeAnnaSophiaA has a reputation beyond repute
Re: at which level B1/B2/C1/C2 people can handle dictation in French?

Dictées are a very useful part of learning French and there are dictées for every level. If you try one that is too hard, you won’t be able to profit from them. The goal is to practice spelling and distinction between all the homophones in French. Unfortunately I don’t know of websites with adapted dictées for self-teaching.

Usually you listen to a dictée once in entirety before beginning to try to write. Then a second time with pauses for writing and a third time to check.

Note that native speakers also use lots of dictée so if you do find them online, be sure you find one that has some kind of learner level attached to it and isn’t one made for testing native speakers in school, which would have a totally different focus and vocabulary. The ones you linked to are for native speaker school children. Most C level speakers would struggle with certain school levels—think back to any English exam and the nearly useless vocabulary we are tested on that no one remembers after passing school ...
This user would like to thank AnnaSophiaA for this useful post:
  #8  
Old 06.08.2021, 00:34
venetian's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Zuerich
Posts: 487
Groaned at 2 Times in 2 Posts
Thanked 556 Times in 266 Posts
venetian has a reputation beyond reputevenetian has a reputation beyond reputevenetian has a reputation beyond reputevenetian has a reputation beyond repute
Re: at which level B1/B2/C1/C2 people can handle dictation in French?

Quote:
View Post
Tom is a linguistic genius. Must be a side effect of the horse meat.
I think he meant that he can handle an A0 dictation
  #9  
Old 06.08.2021, 02:26
umakemefeelbrandnew's Avatar
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: BsB, Brazil
Posts: 96
Groaned at 2 Times in 2 Posts
Thanked 82 Times in 45 Posts
umakemefeelbrandnew is considered knowledgeableumakemefeelbrandnew is considered knowledgeableumakemefeelbrandnew is considered knowledgeable
Re: at which level B1/B2/C1/C2 people can handle dictation in French?

I don't know what kind of level you wonder to prepare for. I remember when I studied for my master, DALF C2 - Lettres et Sciences, I hardly invested on it, it was +/- 10 hours per day during 2 months before going to the exam. In that time I found a great website: https://dictee.tv5monde.com/dictee/ and, more, I bought the CLE book - 250 activités for writing and listening skill, coz I have known the textual composition was so hard, normally 3 different textual purposes are made for that level, at least it was like that...

Alors, j'espère que ces informations puissent vous aider à achiver à vos buts. Bonne chance.
__________________
We shouldn't be looking for the heroes, we should be looking for good ideas - Noam Chomsky.

Last edited by umakemefeelbrandnew; 06.08.2021 at 03:06.
This user would like to thank umakemefeelbrandnew for this useful post:
  #10  
Old 06.08.2021, 13:09
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: Vaud
Posts: 257
Groaned at 8 Times in 7 Posts
Thanked 112 Times in 77 Posts
Gravity has earned the respect of manyGravity has earned the respect of manyGravity has earned the respect of many
Re: at which level B1/B2/C1/C2 people can handle dictation in French?

Quote:
View Post
I don't know what kind of level you wonder to prepare for.
I don't have any official level in mind as my goal. I just would like to improve my writing and general understanding of the language. I already have B1 certificate and any higher one would be of no use for me at the moment. Yeah, my writing skills are perhaps at the lowest qualifying level for B1 conversational skills are no better
This user would like to thank Gravity for this useful post:
  #11  
Old 06.08.2021, 16:24
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: VD
Posts: 405
Groaned at 6 Times in 4 Posts
Thanked 432 Times in 222 Posts
AnnaSophiaA has a reputation beyond reputeAnnaSophiaA has a reputation beyond reputeAnnaSophiaA has a reputation beyond reputeAnnaSophiaA has a reputation beyond repute
Re: at which level B1/B2/C1/C2 people can handle dictation in French?

Quote:
View Post
I don't have any official level in mind as my goal. I just would like to improve my writing and general understanding of the language. I already have B1 certificate and any higher one would be of no use for me at the moment. Yeah, my writing skills are perhaps at the lowest qualifying level for B1 conversational skills are no better
Keep in mind that language skill gets rusty quickly if it’s not used. So unless your day-to-day includes some reading in French, your reading and writing skills will only go down, not improve. Duolingo can be pretty simplistic but also a good tool if you like it. I’ve never “clicked” with it but I know a lot of people who’ve made good progress with it. Or watch films with subtitles (the subtitles won’t always follow 100% the oral). The TV5monde linked to earlier is a great resource, I use the teaching part of that site for my classes quite frequently.

Another option is always to look for someone wanting to do a language tandem if you just want a little discussion now and again to keep up your skill.
  #12  
Old 06.08.2021, 17:09
NotAllThere's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Baselland
Posts: 13,612
Groaned at 236 Times in 207 Posts
Thanked 19,974 Times in 8,116 Posts
NotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond repute
Re: at which level B1/B2/C1/C2 people can handle dictation in French?

While learning French at school we did dictations regularly, once we had the basics. So A1. We did them all the way through school.

You know whether it's singular or plural usually from the verb ending. If you don't know a word, then yes, it's best guess.

As far as the whole sentence. Try German. You very often don't even know what the main verb is until the last word! (Which is why German speakers never like being interrupted and insist on getting to the end of the sentence )
  #13  
Old 06.08.2021, 17:19
bossybaby's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2021
Location: Western Austria
Posts: 428
Groaned at 3 Times in 2 Posts
Thanked 752 Times in 312 Posts
bossybaby has a reputation beyond reputebossybaby has a reputation beyond reputebossybaby has a reputation beyond reputebossybaby has a reputation beyond repute
Re: at which level B1/B2/C1/C2 people can handle dictation in French?

Reminds me of my Parisian teacher, who used to recite this at top speed:

Bonjour madame Sans Souci, combien sont ces six cent six saucissons-ci ?
Ces six cent six saucissons-ci sont six sous.
Six sous, ces six cent six saucissons-ci ! Si ces six cent six saucissons-ci sont six sous, ces six cent six saucissons-ci sont trop chers.
This user would like to thank bossybaby for this useful post:
  #14  
Old 06.08.2021, 18:10
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: lugano
Posts: 768
Groaned at 83 Times in 49 Posts
Thanked 678 Times in 378 Posts
DL21 has an excellent reputationDL21 has an excellent reputationDL21 has an excellent reputationDL21 has an excellent reputation
Re: at which level B1/B2/C1/C2 people can handle dictation in French?

Dictation should be A1. Maybe B1 if it’s a bit more advanced.
This user would like to thank DL21 for this useful post:
  #15  
Old 06.08.2021, 18:17
Mélusine's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Lutry
Posts: 3,904
Groaned at 32 Times in 27 Posts
Thanked 5,530 Times in 2,226 Posts
Mélusine has a reputation beyond reputeMélusine has a reputation beyond reputeMélusine has a reputation beyond reputeMélusine has a reputation beyond reputeMélusine has a reputation beyond reputeMélusine has a reputation beyond repute
Re: at which level B1/B2/C1/C2 people can handle dictation in French?

I’m an french teacher. Dictation is extremely difficult, even for natives. There are so many rules and difficulties in French, even very good older students still struggle. That’s why vocabulary, grammar and dictation are a big part of the syllabus at school.

Out of the six weekly hours of French my secondary students have, I spend one on verbs, one on dictation, two on grammar and two on reading / writing. Which is the norm among my colleagues. And my students are natives…
  #16  
Old 06.08.2021, 18:29
NotAllThere's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Baselland
Posts: 13,612
Groaned at 236 Times in 207 Posts
Thanked 19,974 Times in 8,116 Posts
NotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond repute
Re: at which level B1/B2/C1/C2 people can handle dictation in French?

Quote:
View Post
I’m an french teacher. Dictation is extremely difficult, even for natives. There are so many rules and difficulties in French, even very good older students still struggle. That’s why vocabulary, grammar and dictation are a big part of the syllabus at school.

Out of the six weekly hours of French my secondary students have, I spend one on verbs, one on dictation, two on grammar and two on reading / writing. Which is the norm among my colleagues. And my students are natives…
But you can have dictation at lower levels by keeping it simple. It develops listening ability. I also had regular test involving English dictation. I've never found French difficult. I'm slightly baffled. I'm English.
  #17  
Old 06.08.2021, 18:42
Mélusine's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Lutry
Posts: 3,904
Groaned at 32 Times in 27 Posts
Thanked 5,530 Times in 2,226 Posts
Mélusine has a reputation beyond reputeMélusine has a reputation beyond reputeMélusine has a reputation beyond reputeMélusine has a reputation beyond reputeMélusine has a reputation beyond reputeMélusine has a reputation beyond repute
Re: at which level B1/B2/C1/C2 people can handle dictation in French?

Quote:
View Post
But you can have dictation at lower levels by keeping it simple. It develops listening ability. I also had regular test involving English dictation. I've never found French difficult. I'm slightly baffled. I'm English.
Yes sure, you can dictate simple easy sentences which are possible even at a very basic levels. However, as soon as you use more complex sentences, it becomes more of a challenge. Some people, you appear to be in that category, have a great memory for homophones, rules and their exceptions.

From experience, when I used to teach non-natives, English people tend to struggle more with dictation because the English system doesn’t focus on grammar. And in French, if you can’t analyse the nature and function of a word within a sentence, you can’t accord it correctly.
This user would like to thank Mélusine for this useful post:
  #18  
Old 06.08.2021, 20:16
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Port-Valais (was SFO)
Posts: 446
Groaned at 5 Times in 3 Posts
Thanked 326 Times in 181 Posts
Caryl has a reputation beyond reputeCaryl has a reputation beyond reputeCaryl has a reputation beyond reputeCaryl has a reputation beyond repute
Re: at which level B1/B2/C1/C2 people can handle dictation in French?

For decades I have been amused by my children and grandchildren's dealing with dictées in school. The grandchild who lives with me (we speak only in French, he speaks English to his mum) is about to start CE2/H5, finds reading French easier than English, plays one off against the other especially in (adult) books on astronomy which is his centre of interests. Autistic, he's at least 2 years ahead of his peers in French and maths.
This user would like to thank Caryl for this useful post:
  #19  
Old 06.08.2021, 21:02
umakemefeelbrandnew's Avatar
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: BsB, Brazil
Posts: 96
Groaned at 2 Times in 2 Posts
Thanked 82 Times in 45 Posts
umakemefeelbrandnew is considered knowledgeableumakemefeelbrandnew is considered knowledgeableumakemefeelbrandnew is considered knowledgeable
Re: at which level B1/B2/C1/C2 people can handle dictation in French?

Quote:
View Post
. I just would like to improve my writing and general understanding of the language. [...]. Yeah, my writing skills are perhaps at the lowest qualifying level for B1 conversational skills are no better

I understand you, and every tips in here are available. Your case is complexity of the language, Linguistics name it as Pragmatism and Polysemy. My experience? When I lived in Geneva, I've enrolled in many different mini courses, as political, social, administrative, economic ones, and others just for learning more the language in pratice. In Geneva has UOG, a school not expensive where I could pay for them. Because my social entourage spoke much slang, so, I've had 2 universes of French. Try also to make part of group in French. I was in churches to be a member of a Choir in French, I swear it worked so well.
__________________
We shouldn't be looking for the heroes, we should be looking for good ideas - Noam Chomsky.
  #20  
Old 07.08.2021, 08:43
NotAllThere's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Baselland
Posts: 13,612
Groaned at 236 Times in 207 Posts
Thanked 19,974 Times in 8,116 Posts
NotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond repute
Re: at which level B1/B2/C1/C2 people can handle dictation in French?

Quote:
View Post
From experience, when I used to teach non-natives, English people tend to struggle more with dictation because the English system doesn’t focus on grammar. And in French, if you can’t analyse the nature and function of a word within a sentence, you can’t accord it correctly.
I recall that when I learned French, we learned the grammar. I probably know the technicalities of French grammar better than English - it was helped by the fact that we also taught some English grammar. Though I can never remember what a gerund is...




Thanks for the explanation.
The following 2 users would like to thank NotAllThere for this useful post:
 




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Resources to test my French or German level (A,B,C) Abruch Language corner 1 30.09.2018 16:24
People who moved from US, how did you handle your address in the States? stevebw Other/general 9 07.03.2018 17:48
Laundry: How to handle people not following the signup sheet? SoundOfMusic Daily life 35 24.08.2016 22:13
where to study B2 level of french! andreacardona Language corner 2 27.01.2012 23:18
Revisiting O-level French [French practice in Basel] nickatbasel Language corner 12 01.03.2010 11:09


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 10:11.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0