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Old 28.05.2012, 19:41
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Moving out inspection (état des lieux)

We leave Switzerland in 6 weeks.
We have been renting this furnished apartment for the last 10 months. The renters are the actual owners of the apartment. They rent only this one apartment.
On the day we move out, they will come out here in the morning for the "état des lieux" (final inspection). We have decided to do the cleaning ourselves since we have plenty of time on our hands and we believe that we can do as good a job as any cleaning company.
Questions:
1. How long does a typical "état des lieux" last? I ask this question because we have to go to the bank after the inspection (to recover our money from the "compte garantie loyer") and then we have to catch a train to Chamonix.
2. What are the typical things that can go wrong during the "état des lieux"?

A little rant related to moving out:
(a) The owner demands that we wash and iron all the sheets. I can understand the washing part. But ironing bed sheets???
(b) The owner demands that we use fabric softener when we wash the towels for the last time "so that they are nice and soft for the next renter". But they were not "nice and soft" when we moved in. In fact, the owners come and live in the apartment for July, between renters. That is what they did last year and that is what they are doing this year. So it seems to me that they want us to use fabric softener for them but they did not use fabric softener for us last year!
(c) For our last morning here, we will not have time to wash, dry and iron the bedding (sheets and pillow covers) and towels (used after our last morning shower). So the owner says we can leave a pile of dirty laundry by the washing machine and they will charge us 50 chf. I find that insulting. We will have rented the apartment for almost a year at a very high monthly rent and they want 50 chf for one load of laundry? So we have decided that we will finish all the laundry on the day before the end of our contract and then spend our last night at a nearby hotel at nearly 200 chf rather than pay them 50 chf! Sounds irrational? You bet it is!
(It always feels good to rant...)
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Old 28.05.2012, 20:26
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Re: Moving out inspection (état des lieux)

Personally I would want my own purchased towels, sheets etc so find this all a bit odd anyway.
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Old 28.05.2012, 20:34
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Re: Moving out inspection (état des lieux)

Also the owner is allowed to keep your deposit for up to a year before he gives it back
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Old 28.05.2012, 20:35
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Re: Moving out inspection (état des lieux)

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(c) For our last morning here, we will not have time to wash, dry and iron the bedding (sheets and pillow covers) and towels (used after our last morning shower). So the owner says we can leave a pile of dirty laundry by the washing machine and they will charge us 50 chf. I find that insulting. We will have rented the apartment for almost a year at a very high monthly rent and they want 50 chf for one load of laundry? So we have decided that we will finish all the laundry on the day before the end of our contract and then spend our last night at a nearby hotel at nearly 200 chf rather than pay them 50 chf! Sounds irrational? You bet it is!
(It always feels good to rant...)
Why not get up earlier?
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Old 28.05.2012, 22:09
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Re: Moving out inspection (état des lieux)

Personally, I'd compromise. Get a list of his demands 'in writing'. Fulfil them and be done with it. Better than starting the arguments now... and having more arguments when he's gone.

50chf is not bad for a load of bedding...and an agreement that it's his problem, not yours....that's priceless...
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Old 29.05.2012, 19:45
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Re: Moving out inspection (état des lieux)

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We leave Switzerland in 6 weeks.
We have been renting this furnished apartment for the last 10 months. The renters are the actual owners of the apartment. They rent only this one apartment.
On the day we move out, they will come out here in the morning for the "état des lieux" (final inspection). We have decided to do the cleaning ourselves since we have plenty of time on our hands and we believe that we can do as good a job as any cleaning company.
Questions:
1. How long does a typical "état des lieux" last? I ask this question because we have to go to the bank after the inspection (to recover our money from the "compte garantie loyer") and then we have to catch a train to Chamonix.
2. What are the typical things that can go wrong during the "état des lieux"?

A little rant related to moving out:
(a) The owner demands that we wash and iron all the sheets. I can understand the washing part. But ironing bed sheets???
(b) The owner demands that we use fabric softener when we wash the towels for the last time "so that they are nice and soft for the next renter". But they were not "nice and soft" when we moved in. In fact, the owners come and live in the apartment for July, between renters. That is what they did last year and that is what they are doing this year. So it seems to me that they want us to use fabric softener for them but they did not use fabric softener for us last year!
(c) For our last morning here, we will not have time to wash, dry and iron the bedding (sheets and pillow covers) and towels (used after our last morning shower). So the owner says we can leave a pile of dirty laundry by the washing machine and they will charge us 50 chf. I find that insulting. We will have rented the apartment for almost a year at a very high monthly rent and they want 50 chf for one load of laundry? So we have decided that we will finish all the laundry on the day before the end of our contract and then spend our last night at a nearby hotel at nearly 200 chf rather than pay them 50 chf! Sounds irrational? You bet it is!
(It always feels good to rant...)
The sheets were ironed when you received them? Normally in Switzerland you must restore things the way you received it. unless you have written them that it was not good when you walked into the apartment, but it had to be done no later than 2 weeks after your entry !
There is also a list of things to clean that you recieve at the end of the lease. It must be respected. It is a Swiss tradition and with the cleaning, in Switzerland, we don't laugh!
Good luck if you want to clean yourself after 10 months of occupation, it is hard work: the windows, every corner of the kitchen (watch the fat under the hood! and crumbs in the drawers), the bathrooms (no calcium deposit! and look good also in the toilet!), doors (especially no traces of hands, do you have children?!), the balcony must be ok. Especially not forget inside washing machines (where you put the products!)....... It may take some time especially if the owner finds something wrong cleaned from the beginning, he will be even more careful for the rest of the apartment.
I understand that this is a furnished apartment, how is the rental? It was perhaps not been so expensive for Switzerland and the region where you live (see a list of apartment prices in Homegate.ch!).
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Old 29.05.2012, 21:18
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Re: Moving out inspection (état des lieux)

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The sheets were ironed when you received them? Normally in Switzerland you must restore things the way you received it. unless you have written them that it was not good when you walked into the apartment, but it had to be done no later than 2 weeks after your entry !
There is also a list of things to clean that you recieve at the end of the lease. It must be respected. It is a Swiss tradition and with the cleaning, in Switzerland, we don't laugh!
Good luck if you want to clean yourself after 10 months of occupation, it is hard work: the windows, every corner of the kitchen (watch the fat under the hood! and crumbs in the drawers), the bathrooms (no calcium deposit! and look good also in the toilet!), doors (especially no traces of hands, do you have children?!), the balcony must be ok. Especially not forget inside washing machines (where you put the products!)....... It may take some time especially if the owner finds something wrong cleaned from the beginning, he will be even more careful for the rest of the apartment.
I understand that this is a furnished apartment, how is the rental? It was perhaps not been so expensive for Switzerland and the region where you live (see a list of apartment prices in Homegate.ch!).
Our apartment is a large 4.5 room apartment. The monthly rent is VERY HIGH. The apartment is fully furnished, including pots and pans, dishes, utensils, all the usual kitchen stuff you need to cook, espresso coffee machine, etc. The apartment also comes with sheets, towels, etc. We came here for one year with just a few suitcases.

What is the big deal about cleaning? My wife is a stay-at-home-wife-and-mother during our year in Europe and she keeps the apartment clean. All the time. The apartment is ALWAYS clean.
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Old 29.05.2012, 21:24
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Re: Moving out inspection (état des lieux)

How much will they charge you for cleaning? They should be able to give you a fixed price.

IMHO, cleaning a fully furnished apartment, for owners you have described, may not be worth the bother.
Most of the cleaning complaints are for empty apartments.

It's a judgement call on your side, do you trust them to be 'reasonable'?

And is their idea of reasonable different to yours?

Last edited by 17clarence; 29.05.2012 at 21:24. Reason: Doh!
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Old 30.05.2012, 09:31
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Re: Moving out inspection (état des lieux)

[QUOTE=Quebecman;1569823]Our apartment is a large 4.5 room apartment. The monthly rent is VERY HIGH. The apartment is fully furnished, including pots and pans, dishes, utensils, all the usual kitchen stuff you need to cook, espresso coffee machine, etc. The apartment also comes with sheets, towels, etc. We came here for one year with just a few suitcases. What is the big deal about cleaning? My wife is a stay-at-home-wife-and-mother during our year in Europe and she keeps the apartment clean. All the time. The apartment is ALWAYS clean.

Keep cool Quebecman, you are in open revolt as students from your country! (I suppose that you are from Canada?!) I'm sure your apartment is clean !
I'm very curious about your rental price? If it's expensive, perhaps you live in Geneva, Lausanne or Zurich, near the lake? For example in Pully near Lausanne, a no furnished 4,5 apartment price goes from 3'500.- to 6'800.-! For me it's also very very hight but it's the reality in this side and I chose to live in an popular but cheaper district It was also your choise to not accept an apartment so expensive, isnt it? Or do you think landlords demand a higher price than normal for the region?
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Old 30.05.2012, 10:23
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Re: Moving out inspection (état des lieux)

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So the owner says we can leave a pile of dirty laundry by the washing machine and they will charge us 50 chf. I find that insulting. We will have rented the apartment for almost a year at a very high monthly rent and they want 50 chf for one load of laundry?
Well it's probably 2 loads, and including ironing - well, a fair bit of work and time needed.
You've been here for 10 months and you should have learned by now that this is on the low side as far as extra charges go. Then again, you should have also learned that as the Swiss say, "there is no free lunch" and expect to be charged for absolutely anything non standard.
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Old 30.05.2012, 10:44
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Re: Moving out inspection (état des lieux)

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expect to be charged for absolutely anything non standard.
I find it one of the saddest aspects of life here that one so infrequently/never hears "this is on us" or "have this on the house". Such small gestures, as in this case for the owner to be reasonable and recognise that sheets slept in the night before won't be ready to be ironed on the next moving out day and say something vaguely human and empathic such as "you'll have a lot on your plate moving out, don't worry about the washing" and then NOT charge for it. Such a small gesture could really make one of the most miserable aspects of life here (parsimonious behaviour & itemisation of every last bleedin expense) so much more enjoyable. For the sake of CHF 50 the owner leaves the customer with a bitter taste that is surely not worth it.

I know that is not how things are done here, but that doesn't make it right, its just rather sad.
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Old 30.05.2012, 14:57
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Re: Moving out inspection (état des lieux)

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I find it one of the saddest aspects of life here that one so infrequently/never hears "this is on us" or "have this on the house". Such small gestures, as in this case for the owner to be reasonable and recognise that sheets slept in the night before won't be ready to be ironed on the next moving out day and say something vaguely human and empathic such as "you'll have a lot on your plate moving out, don't worry about the washing" and then NOT charge for it. Such a small gesture could really make one of the most miserable aspects of life here (parsimonious behaviour & itemisation of every last bleedin expense) so much more enjoyable. For the sake of CHF 50 the owner leaves the customer with a bitter taste that is surely not worth it.

I know that is not how things are done here, but that doesn't make it right, its just rather sad.
This is exactly what happened to us when we moved out of our temp furnished apartment. So let's not generalize too much. My guess is that the "good things" are not reported as often as the bad.

Sometimes though it's just not worth the fight. Why cut your nose to spite your face by paying 200CHF for a hotel rather than 50CHF for the washing?

I don't think this will be our OP's only surprise though.
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Old 30.05.2012, 16:03
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Re: Moving out inspection (état des lieux)

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This is exactly what happened to us when we moved out of our temp furnished apartment. So let's not generalize too much. My guess is that the "good things" are not reported as often as the bad.
I am pleased for you that you have had much better experiences - perhaps it is different here in the German speaking areas but, after 4 years here interacting with many different businesses, I wouldn't classify relating my experience of hardly ever having been pleasantly surprised by a freebie or a gesture of goodwill or gracious act as a generalisation. I will concede it quite possibly does not apply to Switzerland as a whole. I just find things very miserly in these parts - starting with the ridiculously small 100ml 'glasses'(sips) of wine!

In all honesty has anyone here been more surprised by generosity than meanness?
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Old 30.05.2012, 16:24
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Re: Moving out inspection (état des lieux)

We were in a furnished apartment for the first year - I brought my own sheets and towels. I put theirs in a big zip bag when I moved in and unzipped it and put them back in place when we moved out

Also cleaned it myself. No issues. It can be done.

Since you have been using their sheets and towels you don't have many options - if you leave them dirty and pay the 50 CHF at least you don't have the issue of the fabric softener. But I would also go with the hotel option. Gives you a chance to get out of the apartment so that it can be cleaned - then close the door and have one night of relaxation. The extra money is worth the reduced stress!!

And you should give ironing sheets a try - its actually the only thing that I do iron!! It makes them feel even smoother and silkier and I think it helps them last longer.
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Old 30.05.2012, 16:26
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Re: Moving out inspection (état des lieux)

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I am pleased for you that you have had much better experiences - perhaps it is different here in the German speaking areas but, after 4 years here interacting with many different businesses, I wouldn't classify relating my experience of hardly ever having been pleasantly surprised by a freebie or a gesture of goodwill or gracious act as a generalisation. I will concede it quite possibly does not apply to Switzerland as a whole. I just find things very miserly in these parts - starting with the ridiculously small 100ml 'glasses'(sips) of wine!

In all honesty has anyone here been more surprised by generosity than meanness?
Ah well. If you want to talk about the small glasses! That's a different issue.
You need to order deux deci, at a minimum, to start.

I wouldn't say I was "surprised by more generosity then meanness*", nor vs versa. I guess it's just what your expectations are. Here I find people to be mostly "correct" and reasonable. That's neither generous nor mean*.

(*what do you mean by "mean": cheap? or nasty?)
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Old 30.05.2012, 16:52
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Re: Moving out inspection (état des lieux)

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Here I find people to be mostly "correct" and reasonable. That's neither generous nor mean*.

(*what do you mean by "mean": cheap? or nasty?)

By "mean" you could substitute tight. I suppose that people are mostly "correct" in that a vending machine selling a bottle of water for 2.50 will correctly give you precisely that bottle of water for 2.50, no more and no less regardless of how frequently you use the vending machine. The vending machine has no personality and no interest in exceeding expectations. The vending machine does not care whether you return to repeat purchase in the future. I just expect more from people in business than to simply act as vending machines. There are a very few talented salespeople here, and some with an idea of marketing, but in my experience most have proven as useful/less as a vending machine. On the other hand I'm sure there are plenty of accurate beancounters. :-)
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Old 30.05.2012, 17:10
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Re: Moving out inspection (état des lieux)

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I find it one of the saddest aspects of life here that one so infrequently/never hears "this is on us" or "have this on the house". Such small gestures, as in this case for the owner to be reasonable and recognise that sheets slept in the night before won't be ready to be ironed on the next moving out day and say something vaguely human and empathic such as "you'll have a lot on your plate moving out, don't worry about the washing" and then NOT charge for it. Such a small gesture could really make one of the most miserable aspects of life here (parsimonious behaviour & itemisation of every last bleedin expense) so much more enjoyable. For the sake of CHF 50 the owner leaves the customer with a bitter taste that is surely not worth it.

I know that is not how things are done here, but that doesn't make it right, its just rather sad.
Swissmountainair, I understand what you are saying and I feel exactly the same way!
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Old 30.05.2012, 17:21
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Re: Moving out inspection (état des lieux)

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Our apartment is a large 4.5 room apartment. The monthly rent is VERY HIGH. The apartment is fully furnished, including pots and pans, dishes, utensils, all the usual kitchen stuff you need to cook, espresso coffee machine, etc. The apartment also comes with sheets, towels, etc. We came here for one year with just a few suitcases. What is the big deal about cleaning? My wife is a stay-at-home-wife-and-mother during our year in Europe and she keeps the apartment clean. All the time. The apartment is ALWAYS clean.

Keep cool Quebecman, you are in open revolt as students from your country! (I suppose that you are from Canada?!) I'm sure your apartment is clean !
I'm very curious about your rental price? If it's expensive, perhaps you live in Geneva, Lausanne or Zurich, near the lake? For example in Pully near Lausanne, a no furnished 4,5 apartment price goes from 3'500.- to 6'800.-! For me it's also very very hight but it's the reality in this side and I chose to live in an popular but cheaper district It was also your choise to not accept an apartment so expensive, isnt it? Or do you think landlords demand a higher price than normal for the region?
Canada? No. I am from Quebec!
And I am cool.
Our monthly rent is 3'500.- We are less than 100 meters from the lake, just outside Lausanne. I am very happy with our decision to rent this place and I am comfortable with the rent eventhough I consider it very high. For that price you get a mansion in Quebec. I just have a hard time getting used to this mentality of 50 chf for this, 50 chf for that, all the time. Like swissmountainair said, it would be nice to hear "This one is on us" once in a while. To me the 50 chf for one or two loads of laundry at the end of one year of rent is a bit like spending 200 chf at a restaurant and being charged an extra 25 centimes because you asked for extra sugar for your coffee.
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Old 30.05.2012, 17:30
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Re: Moving out inspection (état des lieux)

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Sometimes though it's just not worth the fight. Why cut your nose to spite your face by paying 200CHF for a hotel rather than 50CHF for the washing?
I admit (with no shame) that at first our decision to spend our last night at the hotel was in reaction to the 50 chf "insult" and was therefore rather irrational considering that the hotel will cost 200 chf.

But in retrospect, we now think that it is a very sensible thing to do. That way we will be able to leave the apartment in an immaculate state and we will sleep better. Final inspection is at 10:30 in the morning. If we were to spend that last night at the apartment, we would be a bit stressed and we would have some final packing and cleaning to do in the morning, before the 10:30 inspection. We'll sleep better at the hotel...
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Old 30.05.2012, 17:33
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Re: Moving out inspection (état des lieux)

It is 4:32 PM.
Why are my post dated "Today 10:32 ?
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