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  #81  
Old 12.10.2016, 13:35
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Re: Best country to retire

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But no doubt nothing else changes over twenty years. Thank you for your opinion.
Straw man. I can do that too.

So you think Greece will make a miraculous recovery and the average salary will be 200k and 50k will just be peanuts?

Or if you think 50k is not enough to live comfortably in Greece in the next 20 years, what salary do you think will be enough to live comfortably?
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  #82  
Old 12.10.2016, 14:17
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Re: Best country to retire

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Straw man. I can do that too.
No. It was sarcasm.
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So you think Greece will make a miraculous recovery and the average salary will be 200k and 50k will just be peanuts?
No. I was illustrating that things can change dramatically in a country over the course of ten or twenty years, that glibly claiming "you think that will change in 20 years? I don't" sounds like those gobsh*tes who were claiming that the Irish property market was at worst going to have a soft landing back in 2006.

Sometimes we can see the potential for that future change, sometimes not, but believing it cannot happen is just hubris.
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  #83  
Old 12.10.2016, 14:19
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Re: Best country to retire

So then what do you think will be enough to live on comfortably in Greece in 20 years time?
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  #84  
Old 12.10.2016, 14:28
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Re: Best country to retire

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So then what do you think will be enough to live on comfortably in Greece in 20 years time?
You understand, when someone takes an example to illustrate a point, it doesn't mean the topic of discussion is that example, but rather what is being illustrated?
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  #85  
Old 12.10.2016, 15:24
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Re: Best country to retire

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One of the countries mentioned in that post was Greece. Do you know where they were 20 years ago? Entering an economic boom fuelled by the impending Olympics and falsified economic data.

But no doubt nothing else changes over twenty years. Thank you for your opinion.
As a retiree you don't really care about economic conditions in the country. In fact, a recession brings down living costs and that's what is happening in Greece at the moment. Greece, could be poorer in 20 years time but the sea and the sun will still be there. Of course, it is better to rent a place so you can move to a better area if your area falls into poverty or crime...As long as you have a steady stream of cash coming your way you will be absolutely fine.
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  #86  
Old 12.10.2016, 15:32
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Re: Best country to retire

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So then what do you think will be enough to live on comfortably in Greece in 20 years time?


Today:
Renting a nice flat: 600-700 euros a month, telephone/internet 25e a month, water/power/heating 70e monthly, car insurance 450e annually, road tax 150e annually, diesel 1.1 per lt, gas 1.4e per lt, super market/eating out 300-500e monthly...this is like 25k CHF a year net cash.


These prices won't change much in the near future as the country is still in deflation.
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  #87  
Old 12.10.2016, 15:47
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Re: Best country to retire

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As a retiree you don't really care about economic conditions in the country. In fact, a recession brings down living costs and that's what is happening in Greece at the moment.
Or you could have retired to Ireland in 1995 when it was still cheap to live only to find the Celtic Tiger than followed increasing the cost of living substantially. Like it or not future economic conditions both of where you choose to live and where your pension comes from cannot be ignored - I'm actually a bit taken aback by the fact people don't seem to think this important.

And that's before you consider non economic conditions - is the country you're moving to even going to be the same country in ten years?
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As long as you have a steady stream of cash coming your way you will be absolutely fine.
How steady is any flow of money when there's a variable exchange rate in-between?
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These prices won't change much in the near future as the country is still in deflation.
Well if you don't live long after retirement, you should be fine then.
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  #88  
Old 12.10.2016, 17:57
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Re: Best country to retire

Hello...


If you have a 50k CHF a year retirement budget and in the first years you only spent 25k then even if you spent 35k after 10 years (assuming inflation that we don't see it for the next 5 years at least) you are still well within your budget.


There are easy ways to hedge against currency moves (EUR appreciation vs CHF) and an potential increase in living costs. I wont list the ways here but finding a good financial advisor will help a lot.
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  #89  
Old 12.10.2016, 18:06
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Re: Best country to retire

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If you have a 50k CHF a year retirement budget and in the first years you only spent 25k then even if you spent 35k after 10 years (assuming inflation that we don't see it for the next 5 years at least) you are still well within your budget.
And if the CHF drops by 35% against the currency in the country you're living in? Or the cost of living increases by 20%?
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There are easy ways to hedge against currency moves (EUR appreciation vs CHF) and an potential increase in living costs. I wont list the ways here but finding a good financial advisor will help a lot.
Really depends on where your money is coming from. If a private pension, you have some scope, but if a government pension, then you really don't. Same if a large part of your pension income is say rental in the local home currency.

And hedging against hire living costs? Hows that work; buy your groceries ten years in advance?
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Old 12.10.2016, 18:18
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Re: Best country to retire

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And if the CHF drops by 35% against the currency in the country you're living in? Or the cost of living increases by 20%?

Really depends on where your money is coming from. If a private pension, you have some scope, but if a government pension, then you really don't. Same if a large part of your pension income is say rental in the local home currency.

And hedging against hire living costs? Hows that work; buy your groceries ten years in advance?
There are many ways to hedge everything. Like I said you need to contact a good financial advisor (if you are close to retirement and you have specific questions I think I could give you some answers via PM).


Just to give you an idea: you don't want to retire in London where cost of living could increase by the pct you mentioned. Always, find a cheaper location to retire.
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  #91  
Old 12.10.2016, 18:30
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Re: Best country to retire

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You understand, when someone takes an example to illustrate a point, it doesn't mean the topic of discussion is that example, but rather what is being illustrated?
I'm just showing you that it is illustrating that you are wrong. 50k per year has a comfortable buffer for changes.
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  #92  
Old 12.10.2016, 18:32
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Re: Best country to retire

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And hedging against hire living costs? Hows that work; buy your groceries ten years in advance?
buying property in the country you intend to retire in. accumulating assets / converting assets into target country currency.

a second property in the same country generates a return which should correlated to the economic well-being of that country which further hedges any major shifts.
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  #93  
Old 13.10.2016, 11:42
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Re: Best country to retire

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Just to give you an idea: you don't want to retire in London where cost of living could increase by the pct you mentioned. Always, find a cheaper location to retire.
I understand that, but the point I'm making is that a cheaper location to retire might not remain cheaper in the long run or a political change might place your status or access to local services, such as health care, in question.

As an example, British retirees in Spain and Malta recently had their status put into question as a result of Brexit. While both the Spanish and Maltese governments have sought to calm such fears by assuring that existing retirees rights will not change, it does (or did) put into question whether they would retain access to local services or even the right to own property.

While something like Brexit would have been difficult, if not impossible to foresee and one would tend to be safe in the vast majority of cases, at least in Europe, considering the future economic and political landscape of where one might retire is something that has been overlooked when choosing a place to hang one's hat - most talk has been of places that are cheap now. A better example would be a country like Thailand, where political instability could result in a far less friendly environment for non national pensioners in the future.

I would agree with your sentiments regarding professional advice, etc.
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I'm just showing you that it is illustrating that you are wrong. 50k per year has a comfortable buffer for changes.
Hmmm... no you're not. I don't think you really understand what I'm saying. To begin with today's 50k was closer to 25k twenty years ago - during a period of unusually low inflation. A marked increase in cost of living in the destination country along with sluggish growth in, or even shrinking, pension funds can have a very negative effect. Additionally, as I pointed out, political factors are also important.

This is not to say that we can predict the future, or that it should override all considerations, but it is a risk that should not be ignored, relying only on how conditions stand now. This is what I find bizarre.
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buying property in the country you intend to retire in. accumulating assets / converting assets into target country currency.

a second property in the same country generates a return which should correlated to the economic well-being of that country which further hedges any major shifts.
That really depends on what assets you have. If a significant part of your pension is state funded, that option is severely compromised. As for property in the country you move to, it is subject to the political landscape and the long term economy - had you retired to Ireland in 2005 and invested in property when you did so, you'd probably be in negative equity now.
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  #94  
Old 13.10.2016, 11:47
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Re: Best country to retire

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That really depends on what assets you have. If a significant part of your pension is state funded, that option is severely compromised. As for property in the country you move to, it is subject to the political landscape and the long term economy - had you retired to Ireland in 2005 and invested in property when you did so, you'd probably be in negative equity now.
The idea is if you retired in 2005, then you would have bought the property 20 years before that and paid it off.

Of course, you could do better or worse, but that's the point of hedging, you still have the property to live in regardless of whether it is worth 0 or 50000000.
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Old 13.10.2016, 13:50
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Re: Best country to retire

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As for property in the country you move to, it is subject to the political landscape and the long term economy - had you retired to Ireland in 2005 and invested in property when you did so, you'd probably be in negative equity now.
Well first of all you don't invest in property when you retire, you buy a place to live and secondly unless you retired at a very young age, you would not qualify for a mortgage. So the property element is very unlikely to be a cause of concern for retirees, at least in Ireland.

The other thing to realise is that the austerity measures did not apply to retirees except that they missed out on one or two Christmas bonuses (double pension payment in December). Free healthcare and free public transport was not impacted. So EU/EEA retirees were not impacted to any great extend by the crash in Ireland.
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Old 13.10.2016, 15:12
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Re: Best country to retire

"All of the above, in this order:
- cheap living
- oceans, seas, mountains (i.e. nature)
- friendly people
- warm or decent weather
- no people around, but close to lots of people when I am in the mood
- good healthcare system
- possibility to go back home and visit friends and relatives, and for them to come visit"


Then please consider Portugal! I really think that you will enjoy there.

With that income you will leave like a king
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Old 13.10.2016, 18:28
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Re: Best country to retire

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"All of the above, in this order:
- cheap living
- oceans, seas, mountains (i.e. nature)
- friendly people
- warm or decent weather
- no people around, but close to lots of people when I am in the mood
- good healthcare system
- possibility to go back home and visit friends and relatives, and for them to come visit"


Then please consider Portugal! I really think that you will enjoy there.

With that income you will leave like a king
I was in Portugal and Spain last week.
What really surprised me was Portugal and how neat, clean and orderly things were. I suppose listening to the news I was lead to believe that everything was chaos and that the country was in a bad way.
No potholes in the roads (unlike the whole of the UK)
4 coffees & tarts - 7 Euros
Everyone happy and smiley
Maybe that is a place to retire to.....
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  #98  
Old 13.10.2016, 19:39
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Re: Best country to retire

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Malta? nice and warm almost all year round. With 300k plu syou can buy a nice apartment. Free healthcare (assuming you are EU national), and close to Europe.
300k is an expensive apartment, 3 beds can be had from 100k.
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Old 13.10.2016, 19:44
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Re: Best country to retire

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Hello...

There are easy ways to hedge against currency moves (EUR appreciation vs CHF) and an potential increase in living costs. I wont list the ways here but finding a good financial advisor will help a lot.
Hedging is neither cheap nor easy, if it moves the wrong way your hedge will cost a lot of money. I know someone who bought a flat in Verbier in 2008, he hedged the £ & that hedge has cost in excess of £2,000,000 to date, i.e the appreciation of the CHF from 2.00 to 1.20 : £.
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  #100  
Old 13.10.2016, 22:37
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Re: Best country to retire

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Wales is very beautiful but I can´t stand the accent.
And you probably smell of fish pal.
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