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Old 22.10.2017, 15:32
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Leaving CH, but keeping C permit

Hi everyone,

After nearly 10 years around, I am about to leave CH. However, I want to find a way to maintain my C permit for another couple of years or so (yes.. its tough to leave. I might change my mind very quickly after checking out from here). I have my own business (GmbH), so I assume I can play around with my employment here.

1. Any thoughts on how to do something like that ?
2. Any recommendation on specialized immigration/emigration lawyer / service

Cheers
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Old 22.10.2017, 15:40
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Re: Leaving CH, but keeping C permit

You can ask your gemeinde if you can put your C permit on hold, but you need a good reason to do so. If they say no though, that's it. You'd have to deregister and lose the permit.
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Old 22.10.2017, 15:41
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Re: Leaving CH, but keeping C permit

What does it say on the back of your permit?
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Old 22.10.2017, 15:44
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Re: Leaving CH, but keeping C permit

Having a company here doesn´t make you resident, best to ask townhall.
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Old 22.10.2017, 16:22
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Re: Leaving CH, but keeping C permit

Talk to your town haul. Tell them that your employer wants to transfer you abroad for a couple of years. (Make that the truth)
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Old 22.10.2017, 23:18
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Re: Leaving CH, but keeping C permit

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What does it say on the back of your permit?
My german is not so good. to the best of my understanding its say something about me being up to six months abroad and then I can extend the stay abroad for up to 4 years??? something like that ..
Are you familiar with these law (I am EU citizen with C permit)

Last edited by Heinz; 22.10.2017 at 23:32.
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Old 23.10.2017, 03:48
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Re: Leaving CH, but keeping C permit

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My german is not so good. to the best of my understanding its say something about me being up to six months abroad and then I can extend the stay abroad for up to 4 years??? something like that ..
Are you familiar with these law (I am EU citizen with C permit)
6 Months without acknowledging anybody, above that give your cityhall or immigrations a call or pay them a visit for how to arrange it with them.

You can also quote the exact German wordings here if you have doubt about those.
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Old 23.10.2017, 07:42
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Re: Leaving CH, but keeping C permit

From the Foreign Nationals Act:

"Section 2: Expiry and Revocation of Permits

Art. 61 Expiry of permits


1 A permit expires:
a. on notice of departure abroad;
b. on the grant of a permit in another canton;
c. on the expiry of the term of validity of the permit;
d. on expulsion in terms of Article 68.2

If a foreign national leaves Switzerland without giving notice of departure, a short stay permit expires after three months, and a residence or permanent residence permit (expires) after six months. On request, a permanent residence permit may remain valid for a further four years."

http://www.admin.ch/opc/en/classifie...232/index.html

And the longer version from French:

"3.4.4 Maintenance of the authorization of establishment in case of stay abroad

The authorization of establishment ends when the foreigner announces his departure or that he actually stayed during six months abroad. When the interest of the person concerned has been moved abroad, short stays in Switzerland, eg. for purposes of visit, tourism or business, are not sufficient to interrupt this period (see Article 79 OASA, TF 2C_405 / 2015 judgment of 23 October 2015, at 2.2). If the alien so requests before the expiry of the period, the authorization may be maintained for four years (Article 61, paragraph 2, LEtr). The request for the maintenance of the authorization of establishment must be submitted before the expiry of the six-month period (Article 79 (2) OASA). It shall be sent, duly motivated, to the cantonal authority responsible for aliens, which shall rule freely within the limits of its jurisdiction (former law: decision TF 2A.357 / 2000 of 22 January 2001).

The law on foreigners provides that the right of residence may arise or subsist only if it is based on the personal presence of the foreigner. Art. 61 LEtr should be interpreted in accordance with this principle.

It will therefore be possible to maintain an establishment permit - in the case of absence abroad for more than six months - only if the applicant actually intends to return to Switzerland within a maximum of four years. In particular, those which, by their nature, are temporary, such as the completion of military service, training periods, stays relating to business trips on behalf of a Swiss employer, etc., shall be taken into consideration. A detention abroad may in principle also justify a maintenance of the authorization because it generally implies a stay limited in time abroad. This type of stay is therefore comparable to other temporary stays abroad (judgment 2C_461 / 2012 recital 2.2). However, it generally assumes the existence of a ground of revocation within the meaning of art. 63 LEtr (long-term detention) which precludes a continuation of the authorization."

https://www.bfm.admin.ch/content/dam...ngen-aug-f.pdf

As said you need to speak with your gemeinde about what you plan to do. If they agree, the permit will be put on hold for X number of years (not guaranteed to be 4). If they don't agree, the permit won't be put on hold and you'll have to deregister.
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Old 23.10.2017, 09:32
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Re: Leaving CH, but keeping C permit

Quote:
As said you need to speak with your gemeinde about what you plan to do. If they agree, the permit will be put on hold for X number of years (not guaranteed to be 4). If they don't agree, the permit won't be put on hold and you'll have to deregister.
Just a note, you have to deregister even if it is agreed. The time away is not counted for naturalization purposes.

Heinz, as you read about, you intentions must be for a temporary stay abroad. So that should be clear in you request. It's highly subjective and no guarantees your request will be granted.
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Old 23.10.2017, 12:33
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Re: Leaving CH, but keeping C permit

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Just a note, you have to deregister even if it is agreed. The time away is not counted for naturalization purposes.

Heinz, as you read about, you intentions must be for a temporary stay abroad. So that should be clear in you request. It's highly subjective and no guarantees your request will be granted.


Hi miniMia,
Thanks for your answer. So in case I leave for 3 years and come back the 3 years dont count for naturalization purposes.
Do the 9 years I have been here still count ? or do I need to recount again 12 years for naturalization ?
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Old 23.10.2017, 12:34
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Re: Leaving CH, but keeping C permit

Quote:
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From the Foreign Nationals Act:

"Section 2: Expiry and Revocation of Permits

Art. 61 Expiry of permits


1 A permit expires:
a. on notice of departure abroad;
b. on the grant of a permit in another canton;
c. on the expiry of the term of validity of the permit;
d. on expulsion in terms of Article 68.2

If a foreign national leaves Switzerland without giving notice of departure, a short stay permit expires after three months, and a residence or permanent residence permit (expires) after six months. On request, a permanent residence permit may remain valid for a further four years."

http://www.admin.ch/opc/en/classifie...232/index.html

And the longer version from French:

"3.4.4 Maintenance of the authorization of establishment in case of stay abroad

The authorization of establishment ends when the foreigner announces his departure or that he actually stayed during six months abroad. When the interest of the person concerned has been moved abroad, short stays in Switzerland, eg. for purposes of visit, tourism or business, are not sufficient to interrupt this period (see Article 79 OASA, TF 2C_405 / 2015 judgment of 23 October 2015, at 2.2). If the alien so requests before the expiry of the period, the authorization may be maintained for four years (Article 61, paragraph 2, LEtr). The request for the maintenance of the authorization of establishment must be submitted before the expiry of the six-month period (Article 79 (2) OASA). It shall be sent, duly motivated, to the cantonal authority responsible for aliens, which shall rule freely within the limits of its jurisdiction (former law: decision TF 2A.357 / 2000 of 22 January 2001).

The law on foreigners provides that the right of residence may arise or subsist only if it is based on the personal presence of the foreigner. Art. 61 LEtr should be interpreted in accordance with this principle.

It will therefore be possible to maintain an establishment permit - in the case of absence abroad for more than six months - only if the applicant actually intends to return to Switzerland within a maximum of four years. In particular, those which, by their nature, are temporary, such as the completion of military service, training periods, stays relating to business trips on behalf of a Swiss employer, etc., shall be taken into consideration. A detention abroad may in principle also justify a maintenance of the authorization because it generally implies a stay limited in time abroad. This type of stay is therefore comparable to other temporary stays abroad (judgment 2C_461 / 2012 recital 2.2). However, it generally assumes the existence of a ground of revocation within the meaning of art. 63 LEtr (long-term detention) which precludes a continuation of the authorization."

https://www.bfm.admin.ch/content/dam...ngen-aug-f.pdf

As said you need to speak with your gemeinde about what you plan to do. If they agree, the permit will be put on hold for X number of years (not guaranteed to be 4). If they don't agree, the permit won't be put on hold and you'll have to deregister.
Thank you. Very helpful. much appreciated !
Do you also happen to know a lawyer or emigration service that can support me through this process ?
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Old 23.10.2017, 13:10
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Re: Leaving CH, but keeping C permit

Your 9 years will count towards naturalisation, but of course the residency requirements will be reset.

You don't need a lawyer or immigration service - you need to talk to your gemeinde. If they say no, no lawyer or immigration service is going to be able to help you.
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Old 23.10.2017, 16:20
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Re: Leaving CH, but keeping C permit

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Hi miniMia,
Thanks for your answer. So in case I leave for 3 years and come back the 3 years dont count for naturalization purposes.
Do the 9 years I have been here still count ? or do I need to recount again 12 years for naturalization ?
Yes. Your 9 years will count. Your first request will normally be for to years with the _ possibility_ to extend another two years for a maximum of 4.

A lawyer won't help you. These things are very clear and this is a request you need to make yourself. Submission by a lawyer is likely not to be accepted.
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Old 24.10.2017, 16:24
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Re: Leaving CH, but keeping C permit

Could your employer (sic) ask on your behalf?
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Old 03.12.2017, 20:58
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Re: Leaving CH, but keeping C permit

I have two short questions and appreciate any insights.

1- What does "keeping" mean here? Do we physically keep the residence permit and use it within the Schengen Zone (I am a non-EU citizen)?

2- When we deregister from the Gemeinde, is the residence permit invalid starting immediately from the departure date? Or can the permit be used to re-enter Schengen Zone for another 6 months?
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Old 03.12.2017, 21:01
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Re: Leaving CH, but keeping C permit

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I have two short questions and appreciate any insights.

1- What does "keeping" mean here? Do we physically keep the residence permit and use it within the Schengen Zone (I am a non-EU citizen)?

2- When we deregister from the Gemeinde, is the residence permit invalid starting immediately from the departure date? Or can the permit be used to re-enter Schengen Zone for another 6 months?
1 No

2 Yes invalid as from the departure date
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Old 05.12.2017, 23:17
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Re: Leaving CH, but keeping C permit

Heinz,

buy a tin of baked beans, pack your golden rucksack.. toddle off around the planet, do whatever u wanna do.

Keep ur mouth shut.

when u feel like coming back.. let us know what a great time u had.

cheers
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Old 06.12.2017, 00:26
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Re: Leaving CH, but keeping C permit

When we left our Gemeinde didn't really understand that we were not coming back and kept saying we could keep our C permit for 4 years after we left. We left and have no intention of coming back.
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Old 06.12.2017, 06:06
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Re: Leaving CH, but keeping C permit

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Heinz,

buy a tin of baked beans, pack your golden rucksack.. toddle off around the planet, do whatever u wanna do.

Keep ur mouth shut.

when u feel like coming back.. let us know what a great time u had.

cheers
And nobody will notice that you no longer live in Switzerland, do not pay rent anywhere in Switzerland, do not pay for health insurance or taxes? Sure, nobody will notice......
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Old 13.03.2018, 09:07
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Re: Leaving CH, but keeping C permit

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Could your employer (sic) ask on your behalf?
I am running my own Swiss register GmbH (It one man show company, but still a company), so....Yes. My employer can ask on my behalf ..


Do you have an experience with something like that?. I assume this should be well before leaving, approaching the gemnida and saying that I am considering to lean only if they would provide me the 4 years ?
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