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Old 06.11.2017, 09:52
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Why are you leaving?

Hi,

It's not meant as a 'what's wrong with you' question, I'm interested to find out why people are leaving Switzerland.

I'm a freelance journalist living in Zurich and I'm curious as to why people are departing as everyone seems to have a view on this subject at the moment. There's lot's of stories and general mutterings around the economy, salary/ rate cuts, cost of living, unhappy with the Swiss/ work environment/ climate etc and I'm trying to understand people's motives rather than use or rely upon general hearsay.

If you're happy to share your views, anonymously if you wish, I'd love to hear from you. Happy to take a private message or via this forum, any insight is appreciated. At the end of my research, I'll happily share the key points here if there's anything that'll help the group.

Thanks.
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Old 06.11.2017, 09:56
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Re: Why are you leaving?

Is this the only way you try to get information? And what is your hearsay so far?

PS: not leaving, staying here
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Old 06.11.2017, 10:00
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Re: Why are you leaving?

This isn't the only method for collecting information, it's one of many. As this group within the forum is designed more for people leaving it's a good place to have the discussion and collect the perspective of those departing. Targeted messaging.
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Old 06.11.2017, 10:02
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Re: Why are you leaving?

Personally, I'd change the story to investigate how this site has impacted expats lives.
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Old 06.11.2017, 10:03
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Re: Why are you leaving?

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This isn't the only method for collecting information, it's one of many. As this group within the forum is designed more for people leaving it's a good place to have the discussion and collect the perspective of those departing. Targeted messaging.
Still off target then

This is a forum for people staying in or coming to Switzerland. Only a small part is dedicated to people leaving......
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Old 06.11.2017, 10:05
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Re: Why are you leaving?

On target really, it was posted in the section titled 'Leaving Switzerland'.
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Old 06.11.2017, 10:07
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Re: Why are you leaving?

May I ask, where will your article be published?

Pretty much every article published in the Swiss media that I have read on the subject of 'what foriegners think' ends up with Auslander-bashing, if not from the author in then in the online comments section to the article.

That's a pretty dangerous limb to be climbing out on in today's climate.
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Old 06.11.2017, 10:16
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Re: Why are you leaving?

This EF thread "Are more English speaking people thinking of leaving Switzerland now than before?" might be useful:

https://www.englishforum.ch/leaving-...an-before.html
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Old 06.11.2017, 10:19
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Re: Why are you leaving?

OP - how is your retirement plan doing so far?
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Old 06.11.2017, 10:19
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Re: Why are you leaving?

Hi. As a freelance journalist, I'm still investigating if there is even anything worth writing about, initial investigations are how we start off. It's good to remove the writers opinion and collate the research to understand the broader element, ideally with fact rather than a voice or two.

If there is a feature at the end of the research it'll be syndicated via an agent. That said, at this stage there's no story, only an initial investigation.

I'm an 'Auslander' myself and aware of the stereotyping from both sides and very cognizant of the issues. That said, for my research on this article, I'm not focusing on the disparate views of the expat community, maybe in a future piece.

I can see that there are already a few interested in the expat community and supporting others, if you're thinking of writing an article yourself I'm happy to help.
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Old 06.11.2017, 10:31
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Re: Why are you leaving?

We left because the Luxemburgerli are larger in Luxemburg. (Now that's got 20min headline potential, doesn't it?)
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Old 06.11.2017, 10:32
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Re: Why are you leaving?

-Economy in Switzerland has become very different than "what it used to be". Not comparing perceptions or expectations but practical observations.
For example, comparing with my Swiss collegues who have "the old Swiss salaries for decades", who are paying "the old rent which can not be easily increased by landlords", and who benefit from various other long term advantages and financial help (such as cheaper car insurance, a few hundreds chf/year). Note: it has nothing to do with poor negotiation, even the very same person, now switching jobs, are unable to secure these "old Swiss salaries".
Example: we could be talking 130K CHF 15 years ago, now they are stuggling to get 115k-120KCHF. Rents have increased a lot, higher than the average property price increase of average 67% in last decade. Same as other costs (health insurance...) even if that one impacts everyone in the same way.

-Expats also don't have the security or advantage when applying for new position, which makes them in precarity position.

-Not only occurring in Switzerland, but many jobs are relocated abroad, meaning less opportunities here (less offers).

-Switzerland has terribly long and hard requirements to be considered "local", and foreigners are excluded from a few social activities like voting.

-Cultural shock, and various tough rules and attitude toward them makes it a very unfriendly place. Now as example, it's forbidden to write a name on paper on a mailbox, fair enough. But to write a formal complain to the agency is a bit over-the-top IMHFO (in my humble foreigner opinion).

-Local mobility, if intended to stay long term, is very limited or impacted by the numerous federal/cantonal/communal rules. For example, in the prospect of being naturalized, one can't switch to ZUG canton otherwise there is a mandatory +5 years period of time prior to be able to apply.

-Crossing a "mini economical region" (Swiss Romande vs Zurich area) is also difficult due to regulations and languages requirements.

-Situation abroad have evolved, countries might have evolved for the better, while, in my impression, things in Switzerland are almost not progressing/evolving (or at slow pace).

-Foreigners or cross border commuters are frequently targeted by political negative comments, and expressed by locals. In that context, there is almost no laws protecting from these abuses (unlike solid discrimination laws in UK, for example).

-Very little employment protection laws, which is supposed to enhance or facilitate job mobility, in practice, it's again feeding precarity.

-It's very hard (and or long) to integrate for "following spouse or husbands", which put additional pressures on married couple and force to make choices.

-Costs of things increasing significantly, yet salaries are almost stagnating (in average).

-Housing costs have increased and despite EF positives predictions, it's more and more getting fear of another bursting bubble, which makes another barrier to establish long term by acquiring property.

Well, take that for a start!
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Old 06.11.2017, 10:45
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Re: Why are you leaving?

Why not attempt a more positive article on "Why are you coming [to Switzerland]". Scan the recent introductions find some potential interviewees: https://www.englishforum.ch/introductions/
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Old 06.11.2017, 10:53
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Re: Why are you leaving?

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Personally, I'd change the story to investigate how this site has impacted expats lives.
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Still off target then

This is a forum for people staying in or coming to Switzerland. Only a small part is dedicated to people leaving......
Wow you guys really do have a strange sense of logic. The OP is specifically asking about people leaving Switzerland and has posted it in the "Leaving Switzerland" section... what about that is even remotely hard to understand? Why should she not be entitled to ask this without you trying to change her objectives?

It's like you guys just start writing before you've even started to think things through.
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Old 06.11.2017, 10:56
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Re: Why are you leaving?

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Why not attempt a more positive article on "Why are you coming [to Switzerland]". Scan the recent introductions find some potential interviewees: https://www.englishforum.ch/introductions/
Because the answer will be "cause I got a job offer". Not really a story, is it?

But if you can find an idiot explaining how some other nation could possibly be better in any way than Switzerland do you automatically offend a certain group of Swiss people, so you have an instant story for your article... as others mentioned are the angry comments on the publications website basically guaranteed.
It would take an unusually naive expat though... I guess we have some candidates on EF.
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Old 06.11.2017, 10:56
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Re: Why are you leaving?

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Why not attempt a more positive article on "Why are you coming [to Switzerland]". Scan the recent introductions find some potential interviewees: https://www.englishforum.ch/introductions/
The only problem I see with that is it can be based on (often unrrealistic our outdated) foreigners expectations and not on facts about Life in Switzerland*.
In other word, opinion of people usually having very little knowledge of what life is in Switzerland really is (until they will get Switzerlanded a few times and change opinion).

So talking about problems or "limitations" to adjust expectations can be used as a basis for improving a few things (even from both "sides"), it's not necessarily negative and can be turned in a much better and stronger mutual relationship between foreigners/invaders and locals.


*oh and of course on the 0.0001% of semi-god entitled prats seriously lacking of decency and tact who blatantly ask ignorantly if they can barely survive with 200K salary/year in Switzerland //end of personal comment which only engage my own negative opinion and express my negative attitude.
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Old 06.11.2017, 10:59
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Re: Why are you leaving?

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Still off target then

This is a forum for people staying in or coming to Switzerland. Only a small part is dedicated to people leaving......
... coincidentally, the part in which the OP has posted.
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Old 06.11.2017, 11:01
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Re: Why are you leaving?

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It would take an unusually naive expat though... I guess we have some candidates on EF.
No way! I already got 2 thanks for my comments, i'm popular, I'm almost reaching instant popularity higher level, the ultimate EF legend! ...

gosh, please add to the experience: "my working environment has became so toxic that even writing crap on EF is more appealing than facing reality, until I find better opportunity elsewhere".
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Old 06.11.2017, 11:02
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Re: Why are you leaving?

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Why not attempt a more positive article on "Why are you coming [to Switzerland]". Scan the recent introductions find some potential interviewees: https://www.englishforum.ch/introductions/
An article spanning both would make sense.

I think many of the reasons people leave are because of unrealistic expectations in the first place. Many of the positive features do have their down sides (for example, superb cleanliness and organisation is not unrelated to big brother passive-aggressive monitoring and Swiss acting like they have a poker up their ass half the time...), if you don't accept the balance it can be hard.

Many others simply leave because life happens, quite possibly the same reason they came.
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Old 06.11.2017, 11:02
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Re: Why are you leaving?

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Because the answer will be "cause I got a job offer". Not really a story, is it?
That's certainly not the only reason for moving to Switzerland, and certainly not the most interesting one from a journalist's point of view.

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But if you can find an idiot explaining how some other nation could possibly be better in any other way than Switzerland...
And that's certainly not the only reason for leaving Switzerland, either. After all, I left the best nation on Earth to come here.
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