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Old 03.09.2018, 14:48
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AHV refund when leaving Switzerland

After reading numerous threads on EF, it was my understanding that if I return to the US, I can request my AHV contributions to be refunded. I went to the SVA office in Zurich this afternoon and they said it is not possible to get it back when leaving, since there is an agreement in place with the US. Is this correct? Is there any other way to pursue this or is this a lost cause?
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Old 03.09.2018, 15:04
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Re: AHV refund when leaving Switzerland

This is correct, the US and Switzerland have an agreement on SocialSecurity/AHV.

Tom
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Old 03.09.2018, 15:05
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Re: AHV refund when leaving Switzerland

So I have to wait until retirement (30+ years from now) and receive benefits that will almost certainly be at a lower level than they are today?
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Old 03.09.2018, 15:08
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Re: AHV refund when leaving Switzerland

Yes.

Tom
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Old 04.09.2018, 10:13
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Re: AHV refund when leaving Switzerland

Whether you're entitled to get refund or not depends on your passport and has nothing to do with the country into which you're moving to (unlike for pillar 2 where the latter matters)

https://www.admin.ch/opc/de/classifi.../index.html#a1

If you have a non US passport, there's a chance...

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So I have to wait until retirement (30+ years from now)
Passport at the time of refund request matters, give up your US passport, get refund, no need to wait for 30 years
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Old 04.09.2018, 10:20
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Re: AHV refund when leaving Switzerland

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Passport at the time of refund request matters, give up your US passport, get refund, no need to wait for 30 years
So long as it's also not a Swiss one, or many others.

Tom
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Old 04.09.2018, 10:32
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Re: AHV refund when leaving Switzerland

I showed my US passport and Romanian passport, which is what I used to obtain my B permit. I also showed the de-registration confirmation from the city which had my US address on it. With this, they would not issue a refund.
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Old 04.09.2018, 10:39
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Re: AHV refund when leaving Switzerland

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I showed my US passport and Romanian passport, which is what I used to obtain my B permit. I also showed the de-registration confirmation from the city which had my US address on it. With this, they would not issue a refund.
Romania also has an agreement due to being in the EU.

https://www.ahv-iv.ch/p/890.e

Tom
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Old 04.09.2018, 11:42
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Re: AHV refund when leaving Switzerland

Further and more information on the subject can be found in the following leaflets issued by the Swiss government:

Swiss social insurance system: Period of stay in Switzerland and departure
https://www.sem.admin.ch/dam/data/se...zialvers-e.pdf

Information for Citizens of States with which Switzerland has not concluded a social security agreement (non-contracting states)
https://www.ahv-iv.ch/p/10.03.e

The voluntary old-age, survivors’ and disability insurance scheme
https://www.ahv-iv.ch/p/10.02.e

International social security agreements with Switzerland
https://www.bsv.admin.ch/dam/bsv/en/...80101%20EN.pdf
also
https://www.bsv.admin.ch/bsv/en/home...greements.html
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Old 04.09.2018, 12:33
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Re: AHV refund when leaving Switzerland

He he. After I left Switzerland I claimed back my pension AHV contributions.
Seems like even pension is not sacred in Switzerland.They only refunded me three quarters of my pension contributions.
Some bullshit story about a calculation of the pension that I would have got.
That is not the same apparently as your company pension,where you receive your actual pension contributions back minus tax. Any excuse to pay you less.
In my case,they screwed me out of around 20 000 chf.

I love it when the Swiss groan at the truth.You will only hear the truth from me.
It's not a fairy tale Swissies.

Last edited by roadrabbit; 04.09.2018 at 12:54.
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Old 04.09.2018, 13:01
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Re: AHV refund when leaving Switzerland

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Seems like even pension is not sacred in Switzerland.They only refunded me three quarters of my pension contributions.
Some bullshit story about a calculation of the pension that I would have got.
AHV is not a pension plan but social security. Swiss law and regulation specify in Art. 4 Abs. 4 RV-AHV that only as much can be paid back as you would get in old-age benefits.

The Swiss AHV is social in many ways: The payout is capped but the contributions are unlimited. Unlike the German system which has a Beitragsbemessungsgrenze or the US system with its wage base limit.

With this a minimal rent of CHF 1175 per month can be financed. As this is still not enough to live in Switzerland, there are other social benefit payments, financed by tax, to fill the gap.

So, no "bullshit story" but simply the just and fair law.

PS: You benefited during your stay in Switzerland from this by the sheer absence of beggars, panhandlers, and old bums living on the street.
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Old 04.09.2018, 13:21
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Re: AHV refund when leaving Switzerland

I would also say, due to the agreement with the swiss, you were not charged the 6.2% (I think that's the rate) social security tax in the US when you filed your taxes.
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Old 04.09.2018, 13:25
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Re: AHV refund when leaving Switzerland

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AHV is not a pension plan but social security. Swiss law and regulation specify in Art. 4 Abs. 4 RV-AHV that only as much can be paid back as you would get in old-age benefits.

The Swiss AHV is social in many ways: The payout is capped but the contributions are unlimited. Unlike the German system which has a Beitragsbemessungsgrenze or the US system with its wage base limit.

With this a minimal rent of CHF 1175 per month can be financed. As this is still not enough to live in Switzerland, there are other social benefit payments, financed by tax, to fill the gap.

So, no "bullshit story" but simply the just and fair law.

PS: You benefited during your stay in Switzerland from this by the sheer absence of beggars, panhandlers, and old bums living on the street.
I am well aware that it has a social security aspect to it.That is why they don't refund you the other parts i.e. disability cover etc.
I am talking about MY pension fund contributions only.
It is easy to make a law that screws foreigners when they leave.
I never got my actual PENSION contributions back.
I do not care about the rest.Just give me my actual pension contributions back. Pension fund money should be sacred.Do not screw people out of their pensions.It is wrong on so many levels.
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Old 04.09.2018, 13:45
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Re: AHV refund when leaving Switzerland

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I am well aware that it has a social security aspect to it.That is why they don't refund you the other parts i.e. disability cover etc.
I am talking about MY pension fund contributions only.
It is easy to make a law that screws foreigners when they leave.
I never got my actual PENSION contributions back.
I do not care about the rest.Just give me my actual pension contributions back. Pension fund money should be sacred.Do not screw people out of their pensions.It is wrong on so many levels.
Which country doesn´t do that? All countries I have worked in act the same way..... Apart from that, in a lot of countries you do not get back what you paid in, but your payment is used to pay pensioners now and you better hope that there are enough people to pay your pension.

Stop whining, it won´t change. And the information was there before you started working here
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Old 04.09.2018, 13:48
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Re: AHV refund when leaving Switzerland

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I am well aware that it has a social security aspect to it.That is why they don't refund you the other parts i.e. disability cover etc.
I am talking about MY pension fund contributions only.
It is easy to make a law that screws foreigners when they leave.
I never got my actual PENSION contributions back.
I do not care about the rest.Just give me my actual pension contributions back. Pension fund money should be sacred.Do not screw people out of their pensions.It is wrong on so many levels.
You knew this upfront, so you deliberately chose to either come uneducated or accepted it upfront and were fine with the total package Switzerland offers.

Joke's on you in both cases.

I can see why you have been called a troll earlier by others.
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Old 04.09.2018, 14:48
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Re: AHV refund when leaving Switzerland

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I am well aware that it has a social security aspect to it.That is why they don't refund you the other parts i.e. disability cover etc.
I am talking about MY pension fund contributions only.
It is easy to make a law that screws foreigners when they leave.
I never got my actual PENSION contributions back.
I do not care about the rest.Just give me my actual pension contributions back. Pension fund money should be sacred.Do not screw people out of their pensions.It is wrong on so many levels.
Sorry my short term memory is not so good, could be I might have already told you that AHV, it is not a pension plan but a social security insurance. It is also separate from disability coverage/IV. There is no reimbursement of the IV part because the law regarding IV those not foresee a reimbursement.

Also there is no "MY pension fund", no "my actual PENSION contributions", no "Pension fund money" in general when we speak abut AHV. And there is also no "screw people out of their pensions" as the AHV entitlement is defined by law. If you had stayed in Switzerland your AVH pension would be capped like wise.
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Old 04.09.2018, 17:53
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Re: AHV refund when leaving Switzerland

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Which country doesn´t do that? All countries I have worked in act the same way..... Apart from that, in a lot of countries you do not get back what you paid in, but your payment is used to pay pensioners now and you better hope that there are enough people to pay your pension.

Stop whining, it won´t change. And the information was there before you started working here
I am retired right now,so my stolen pension is paying a Swiss person instead of me right now,because I cannot be paid a Swiss pension outside of Switzerland.So what's the difference?
I'm not a dog by the way,so I do not whine.Maybe you do,I don't know.
Roegner sounds like a name I could call my dog.

Same old shitty replies on this biased forum from the same old bored people.
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Old 04.09.2018, 18:16
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Re: AHV refund when leaving Switzerland

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Sorry my short term memory is not so good, could be I might have already told you that AHV, it is not a pension plan but a social security insurance. It is also separate from disability coverage/IV. There is no reimbursement of the IV part because the law regarding IV those not foresee a reimbursement.

Also there is no "MY pension fund", no "my actual PENSION contributions", no "Pension fund money" in general when we speak abut AHV. And there is also no "screw people out of their pensions" as the AHV entitlement is defined by law. If you had stayed in Switzerland your AVH pension would be capped like wise.
I have the decision letter in front of me from the compensation office in Geneva.
It says that the reimbursement amount is 8.4% of my total gross income.
4.2% representing my pension contributions and
4.2% representing my employers contribution.
Then they say that due to the unfair law you mentioned,they will only pay me via some stupid calculation
I have argued at length with these people.But it's brick wall stuff,as the unfair law has been put in place.So there is no getting around it.
Does not make it less stupid and unfair.
It is very simple.Just give me back what I contributed.
Same as Pillar 2.Works fairly and logically there.
But government institutions have their own way of doing things.
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Old 04.09.2018, 18:23
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Re: AHV refund when leaving Switzerland

Quote:
You knew this upfront, so you deliberately chose to either come uneducated or accepted it upfront and were fine with the total package Switzerland offers.

Joke's on you in both cases.

I can see why you have been called a troll earlier by others.
Now you are a special kind of funny.
Don't just call someone a troll who does not have your viewpoint.O.K.
And you called me dumb.Many things I could say,but l will be the bigger person and say nothing.
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Old 04.09.2018, 18:34
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Re: AHV refund when leaving Switzerland

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It is very simple.Just give me back what I contributed.
There is no country in the world that will do that for social security contributions.

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Same as Pillar 2.Works fairly and logically there.
Pillar 2 is another matter.

Tom
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