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Old 12.01.2019, 17:15
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AVS dual citizen - EU + non-EU without agreement

I've seen a lot of posts on this subject so thanks everyone for the info.
I can't find a post on my specific situation so I wondered if anyone has expecrience.
I'm a South African born and raised and I have Italian citizenship too by blood.
Nobody in my family has lived in Italy for a couple of generations though.
When I was offered a job in Switzerland back in 2006 I was naturally advised being Italian makes all the permit stuff easier so I've been here as an Italian with C permit since 2011.

I'm leaving in April so I went to the compensation office this week and predictably they said being Italian disqualifies me from getting paid out because of the EU treaty. They also said when I am next going to live is irrelevant - it's a nationality issue.

This decision seems totally arbitrary as I find nothing on any of the websites stating how dual nationals of my type are to be treated. In this case I would say the fair treatment is that I get the choice of regime, instead of the Nanny State deciding.
Has anyone had such an experience?
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Old 12.01.2019, 17:57
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Re: AVS dual citizen - EU + non-EU without agreement

You could ditch your italian passport and try again, massgebend ist die Staatsangehörigkeit im Zeitpunkt der Rückforderung, says the law.

Alternatively search and cite them some court practice, this seems relevant - "Sofern mindestens bezüglich eines der Staaten eine Vereinbarung mit der Schweiz besteht, ist bei Doppelbürgern mit nichtschweizerischen Bürgerrechten analog zu Art. 23 Abs. 2 IPRG (SR 291) die Angehörigkeit zu jenem Staat entscheidend, mit welchem die Person am engsten verbunden ist" - argue that you closest ties are with South Africa and so by Art. 23 Abs. 2 IPRG and this analogous case that's the country they should consider in your case.

Finally, sue if you can afford it and let the judge decide.

Or wait until you retire and collect the money as ordinary pension, it's not such a bad deal after all considering that they won't refund you everything but only pension part (~80% of the money) and up to NPV of your future pension.
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Old 12.01.2019, 18:13
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Re: AVS dual citizen - EU + non-EU without agreement

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This decision seems totally arbitrary
It's not, it's the law.

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Old 12.01.2019, 18:55
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Thanks ivank. Excellent info.

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It's not, it's the law.

So as not to mislead people: I have not made an application for and AVS refund, nor have I had any official decision. The info I got was from a guy sitting in a booth at the compensation office in Geneva with whom I spoke for 5 minutes.
As per the judgements cited in the links ivank kindly sent:
"Where a person has more than one nationality, that of the State with which he has the closest relations is the only one selected to determine the applicable law, unless this Act provides otherwise"
"The nationality of the State with which the interested party has the most close personal and economic relations must be considered as predominant."

So I'll provide the info, go through the process and report back accordingly on the outcome.

Last edited by 3Wishes; 13.01.2019 at 00:35. Reason: merging consecutive replies
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