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Old 08.04.2020, 21:35
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Deregistering and moving to non-EU country

Hi all,

I am planning on leaving Switzerland and going back to non-EU country in about a year.

I have a couple of questions:

1. 2nd pillar
I understand since I would be moving to a non-EU country, I am allowed to withdraw all the funds from my 2nd pillar and my 3rd pillar.
Is that true?
If yes, how long does that take in your experience?
How do you make a request for that to happen? Does it have to be made in advance?

2. citizenship
In a year I should have Swiss citizenship, before deregistering. I heard some rumors that you might be forced to stay in Switzerland after obtaining it, or otherwise lose it. Is it a good idea to deregister while you have C permit or is it OK to do it also with citizenship?

3. banks
How do you transfer money to your new bank? I assume you cannot keep an account in Switzerland. Are the taxes when transferring high? Are there some tricks to avoid high taxes, like maybe transferring little by little?


Thank you
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  #2  
Old 08.04.2020, 22:19
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Re: Deregistering and moving to non-EU country

1. https://www.ch.ch/en/withdraw-pension-early

2. Have you already applied for citizenship? Because there's no saying how long the process will take. Why would you be forced to stay here? That's pretty impossible to enforce for a start, although I guess they could revoke the citizenship if they wanted to be nasty about it. If you deregister on a C permit, any citizenship application will become invalid.

3. This may depend on which country you're moving to. You should be able to keep the account open for a while, especially if you're Swiss. Otherwise just give your Swiss bank the account details of your account in your new country. You will need to fill in a tax return before you leave and pay any tax due. Of course you might be owed a refund which could be paid into your Swiss account or possibly into your new one.
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  #3  
Old 08.04.2020, 22:30
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Re: Deregistering and moving to non-EU country

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2. citizenship
...obtaining it, or otherwise lose it.
This thread (about a different set of circumstances) sets out the conditions under which Swiss citizenship, once awarded, can then be lost.
https://www.englishforum.ch/family-m...4-divorce.html
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Old 09.04.2020, 08:29
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Re: Deregistering and moving to non-EU country

Are you sure you qualify for Swiss nationality?

Really?
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Old 05.05.2020, 12:40
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Re: Deregistering and moving to non-EU country

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Hi all,

I am planning on leaving Switzerland and going back to non-EU country in about a year.

I have a couple of questions:

1. 2nd pillar
I understand since I would be moving to a non-EU country, I am allowed to withdraw all the funds from my 2nd pillar and my 3rd pillar.
Is that true?
If yes, how long does that take in your experience?
How do you make a request for that to happen? Does it have to be made in advance?
I can answer some of the the second part of that question, but please remember these were my experiences and others may well have had very different ones! So here goes:

In my case it took 5 months from start to finish.

The 2nd pillar was much easier than the 3rd pillar.

For the 2nd pillar I chose to pass through a third party. I had a form to complete that then went from them, to my employer. They arranged with my employer for the funds to be moved to the third parties’ choice of pension fund in CH which was in a low-tax Canton. i chose a third party knowing that I was leaving CH and for the sake of a small commission (and I mean small) they would and did do all the legwork and moved it to this low-tax Canton, meaning that when I did finally get it I did not pay the same amount of tax on it that I would have paid in the Canton where I lived and where my employer was based. The commission and the tax in the Canton it was transferred to, combined, was a huge chunk less (and I do mean huge) than the tax I would have paid in what was my Canton of residence alone. Never mind any possible additional “fees”.

To get it from there, I needed to supply the fund where it was sent to (from memory, please excuse me if I make an omission) a copy of my passport and Swiss permit, leaving certificate from the commune no more than 1 month old, proof of CH address not more than 3 months old, proof of residency where I moved to (copy of registry in the new commune) and bank account details in my new country of residence. Once all had been provided, they vetted/validated all I had provided and signed off on the transfer of the funds. I received those net of tax and the small amount of commission. I think it took around 10 days once the validation had been completed for the funds to hit my account.

For the 3rd pillar, mine was in a bank. i had to provide again all the above but (bizarrely) a second commune leaving certificate dated AFTER I had left Switzerland, to prove to the bank that I had in reality left. Getting that was nigh on impossible. The commune said no need for it, bank said no certificate dated after you left, no money. In my case, I asked a friend to go to the commune and obtain a duplicate of the original, dated on the day the duplicate was requested. It was a major hassle. But the good news was that the bank accepted it and again, the funds too around 10 days to be in my account after the validation of the documents.

For me, this third party for the 2nd pillar worked perfectly and was well worth what commission I paid. They did it all, the lot. You just provide the documents they ask you for. But that’s me, of course you might want to do it differently. Each to their own.

I was told by my third party that getting my 2nd pillar into my account in my new country of residence inside of 6 months was, relatively speaking, a “rush job”. They did say that it usually took between 6-12 months. So I would ask your 2nd and 3rd pillar provider in advance what documents you will need to have it released, and get all those that you need from CH in advance of you actually leaving. And line up someone back in CH in case you have to “phone a friend”, like I did, once you have left.

I hope this is useful to you. All the best with your upcoming changes.

Bon courage,

SS
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Old 05.05.2020, 12:49
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Re: Deregistering and moving to non-EU country

Can you maybe tell us which canton you lived/worked in and which canton was "low tax" please ?
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Old 05.05.2020, 12:56
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Re: Deregistering and moving to non-EU country

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Can you maybe tell us which canton you lived/worked in and which canton was "low tax" please ?
My emplyer was in Vaud where I think you would be taxed (again, from memory so please excuse, you must check it out) around 16% of the total pension. That made my eyes water!

It was moved by my employer to Schwyz where I think (again from memory) around 5% tax. Again you will need to check what current rates are, but Schwyz was the lowest in all CH at that time.

i think I paid 2% or 1.5% commission for all to be done by the 3rd party...

bonne ch ce

SS
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Old 05.05.2020, 13:34
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Re: Deregistering and moving to non-EU country

Apologies, something I did omit to mention that is important if you are moving to a place where you have not lived before....

The proof of residency in the place you move to is really important..

Also, please do remember that if you cannot provide proof of residency (in many cases that involves having a residency Visa in addition to you being officially registered with your new Commune) you cannot provide the required proof to the pension fund that you have actually moved out of CH. If this is the dase, you will not get your 2nd pillar released to you.

Another hiccup....if you have no Visa or proof of residency where you go, you will not have a bank account there. so nowhere to pay your money even if it’s available to be released!

In my case I had everything lined up ready, it just took some time to get the Visa then some more time to open the bank account. Patience patience......

Now, this didn’t apply in my case, but I don’t know if you are able to become a resident in one country then have this 2nd Pillar transferred to a different country. You would have to find that one out but knowing the way the Swiss like rules, I suggest probably not.

Sorry for missing this first time around.

SS
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Old 12.05.2020, 16:54
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Re: Deregistering and moving to non-EU country

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i chose a third party knowing that I was leaving CH and for the sake of a small commission (and I mean small) they would and did do all the legwork and moved it to this low-tax Canton, meaning that when I did finally get it I did not pay the same amount of tax on it that I would have paid in the Canton where I lived and where my employer was based. The commission and the tax in the Canton it was transferred to, combined, was a huge chunk less (and I do mean huge) than the tax I would have paid in what was my Canton of residence alone.

SS
Are you able to share the name of this third party? It sounds really helpful! Thanks
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Old 14.05.2020, 17:55
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Re: Deregistering and moving to non-EU country

3. In case you haven't moved or this will help others.....
I really have no idea about the taxes (at least the Swiss taxes). We're moving to a non-EU country though and found the easiest way to move our money was with TransferWise (https://transferwise.com/ch). I just made sure that we moved it between accounts established in the same name (i.e., not from my account to my husband's) so it was easier. It's a great way to move money and know what exchange rate you'll get. None of our banks were open about the fees or the exchange rates so a lot of money would have been lost in conversions & fees. We've had many friends use TransferWise too and no one has had problems so far. Definitely check the tax laws in your home country (we are still obligated to pay in our country of citizenship) before you just start transferring.
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