Dear Members,

I am writing to you to seek your view on potential next steps in terms of continuing to stay in Switzerland or move to Australia, where I have a permanent residency, which expires in 2021 (so I have to make a move before).

The question upfront - Should I consider moving to Australia if I know that I may be impacted by the restructuring in my job in the next 1-2 years).

I am a non-EU national living and working in Switzerland since 2018. I am currently on an un-restricted B permit with an unlimited contract since mid of 2019. Prior to that, I was on the L permit. So the path to early C-permit is still 3 years away if I succeed (and that is a big if )

I really like Switzerland and would love to continue living here but the fact I have permanent residency in Australia continues to confuse me.

I have ran extensive Pro/Con. My personal conclusion is that for long term stability, it would be a wiser choice to go to Australia.

Happy to hear you!

With my kind regards

You ran your pros v cons and you made your personal conclusion. What's your question? Do you just need someone to validate your decision by nodding along?

Switzerland. Land locked! Surrounded by snapping sharks. Australia-open but still alot of sharks . And has a really SHIT government. Australia is a sense of freedom which maybe one does not have here in CH.

And with one choice, you'll be surrounded by Swiss and the other, by Aussies....that is difficult.

What about New Zealand? Seems like a perfect compromise.

I would say it also depends on your life situation, e.g. single, kids, looking for lots of fun outside work, the desire to earn a pension with Swiss salary, etc....

Such a choice is never easy. Do you go with your feelings or rationale?

Could you just renew your Australian residency without living in Australia?

https://www.seekvisa.com.au/renew-pe...resident-visa/
"To maintain your Australian permanent resident status, you must either meet a residence requirement in Australia or show that you have close ties to Australia."

Permanent residency use to be an easy path to citizenship, I don't know now.

It's a huge country with an outdoor lifestyle and yes a sense of freedom. Sharks to be kept at bay by not being at bay

Though about it as with Australian PR, I can live and work in New Zealand. However, the economy is weaker compared to OZ and its less vibrant.

Actually, I had the opportunity to do a cross country road trip starting in Queenstown all the way up to Auckland. Beautiful, oh yes. Somewhat in between Norway and Switzerland in terms of landscape but it was definitely a lot less happening in towns (excpet Auckland) and nearly deserted in between.

Yes, that is one thing on my mind i.e. to apply for an extension while being in Switzerland. To prove ties to Australia, they either have to Economic & Cultural/Social. A job, running a business or a real estate property normally establishes economic times. I don't have any as yet, though I am thinking to invest in real estate after (and when) this crisis is over. Don't have any immediate family so can't prove social ties.

Yes, It used to be relatively easier but with politicians have been under intense pressure over the last 3-4 years and they had reduced immigration numbers and made the process stringent towards citizenship as well - making 4-year residency a mandatory qualifier.

The economic outlook for australia looks not good at all, a lot of people got unemployed because of the pandemic, the social security is not the same as here, the taxes in australia are much higher.
The list goes on , the goverment tries to keep australia separated from the world because of the pandemic, but australia needs tourism and people to relocate there .
Even borders between the states in australia have been closed, the fines handed out to the people not comply with the rules to fight the virus. are mayhem.
Scomo was furios , as people still leaving australia for a holiday overseas , when the virus started to spread, australia offered " mercyflights".
Now virgin australia is on the brink of collapse, the goverment will not bail them out, if no other company takes over virgin, there will be only one major airline left in australia.
The hostility against chinese people in australia is very obvious these days, but they are a big part of the current society in australia.

Yes Blackbird, Australia was been historically highly dependent on China as their major trade partner (around 25% export). This crisis has been a double whammy for OZ, first the demand destruction in China due to lockdowns and at the same time negative impact on the tourists and students from China.

I have been contemplating and following news from Australia and this crisis may permanently change the dynamics of the Australian approach towards china perhaps accelerating the drift to the USA as a strategic partner. However, economically, this will be a very painful move.

From my perspective, I fully acknowledge these coming economic hardships, however, I want somewhere stable in terms of rights to live. With a family to support, a challenging Job and being on Permit B as Non-EU potentially would mean that I may have to leave Switzerland anyways on loss of job.

Thanks for the reply, another hardship is that australia shut down the possibility
to immigrate to australia when you are older then 45 and your english must be on a higher level (competent or skilled) when you apply for certain visas(482 for example).

Must be the way to go. Make those ties now if they are not strong at the moment. As I Kiwi I make no comment about Australia but always better to keep doors open particularly at the moment when there is a lot of uncertainty about

Just out of curiosity, what did you decide, Uaby? This comparison seems to be very interesting to me, and as many threads I've been reading, there's no definite answer to this dilemma.

I can understand the dilemna of the OP, but if I was him/her I would stay put. Australia is more like the US...great when things are going well, but lose your job or get sick...things can get messy quick.

Does it mean health system is similar to the US?

I would choose Australia in a heart beat (well, if I was without dog as it's too difficult to move him there). The one thing that would make Brexit bearable would be if CANZUK did a freedom of movement deal in the future.

Thank you! What's stopping you from moving there except for the dog? Already not a fit for their immigration program? And what in particular makes you to have such a certainty about this choice?

I don’t think I have a “skill” that would get me points for a visa. I love the place & the people - but living there probably would not be the same as visiting I am aware!

Absolutely not. Australia has universal health care ("Medicare"), so all legal residents are entitled to basic healthcare, free of charge. Private insurance is available if you want to expand the coverage.

I think litespeed was referring to the lower level of support in Australia for people out of work or on long term sickness leave. The "JobSeeker" payment in Australia for a single person with no children is $715.70 (CHF 512.10) per fortnight and for a single person with dependent children, it's $762.00 (CHF 545.16) per fortnight. A waiting period may be imposed if you have significant assets or received a lump sum from your employer.

In Switzerland, unemployed singles receive 70% of their recent average salary and unemployed people with children, 80%. The payments are capped. Converting to fortnightly payments to enable comparison, the maximum payments are CHF 3,979.07 (no children) or CHF 4,547.51 (with children).

So, CHF 512.10 vs CHF 3,979.07 if you have no children, CHF 545.16 vs CHF 4,547.51 if you do. Quite a difference.

I would also choose Australia in a heartbeat ... now that I have lived in Switzerland close to 20 years ;-)

Money is not everything. Which means that it is very difficult to do a comparison because not everything can be reduced to a monetary value.

But all things considered, I would lean more towards Australia.

If you had the misfortune of being unemployed, perhaps you are better off in Switzerland. But I would not make a decision based on the unlikely event of being unemployed.

I thought the cap was higher in Switzerland?

I calculated fortnightly figures. Monthly payments are more than twice as much.

The cap on the salary on which the payments are calculated is CHF 12,350 per month. Maximum payments are therefore 70% or 80% of CHF 12,350, per month, i.e. CHF 8,645 (no children) or CHF 9,880 (one or more children) -- assuming all other qualifying criteria are met, of course.