I am strongly considering moving from Switzerland to Denmark as, although being a Swiss native (lived in Ticino, Vaud and now Aargau) I never actually feel at home. My Family is anyway in Denmark (Mother, uncles, aunts, ...) and I have no ties to remain here in the long term. I am also Danish and have a Danish passport by the way .

Girlfriends cheated on me, no other is interested in me, work I'm getting totally fed up and this Corona crisis is the perfect storm that really exhausted my patience. My mom is also getting old and I don't want to leave her alone . I have no reason to stay in Switzerland any longer.

I am beginning to look for a Job in Denmark. Shouldn't be so difficult as I have quite good qualifications (Master in Electrical Engineering with 6+ years experience).

I am starting to see how I can organize my move and, since I saw what happened with COVID-19, I decided I cannot depend upon a Moving Company canceling on me on the last minute leaving me in the shit having to pay an apartment I cannot afford anymore without salary (which I won't have since I will have to cancel my work contract in advance).

Therefore the solution would be:
- Rent a van (best seems to be the IVECO Daily Box at Sixt.ch, at 850 CHF / 6 days, 3000 km, 970kg capacity and 18.5 m2 usable surface). Hopefully I can find another offer for "simple one-way trip" where I can leave the van in Denmark (have to call them to check, it's not possible on the internet)
- Need to repeat for probably 5-6 trips (when I came here I had quite a lot of packages, 250+ I think, and 1 big 11t (?) truck + 1 3.5t small truck with trailer were required)

Note: you might say that it's not cost-effective and the time/fuel needed etc, but again, I cannot risk being stuck in my apartment because some stupid politician decided to shut down everything again . I won't be having 2060 CHF to pay each month for an additional 4-6 months (yeah, Aargau rent contracts need to be canceled 3 months in advance, mine is 4 months in advance but you can only cancel 30 March, 30 June or 30 September).

I tried to contact the Danish and German Customs office. The German Customs office told me that they are not really interested in my moving, but I need a T1 form established by the Swiss Border authorities. They just gave me a link to http://www.ezv.admin.ch/kontakt/06027/index.html, but I didn't quite understand how to establish this form. It seems it is reserved for transport companies and not to private people, as I couldn't find where to download the required software.

In the past I moved from Ticino to nearby France and there it wasn't so difficult to do the moving myself. Just had to prepare a list of goods, let the customs office in Switzerland and France stamp it, but no need for something special.

This T1 procedure / form seems to be relevant if you must cross a 3rd (or 4th, ...) country within the EU during transport of goods (and maybe also moving/relocation), such as Germany in my case.

Does somebody have experience in where to find this form / software and how to fill it in?

From the Swiss Customs they just say that it's a "cost effective" way to document goods, so it probably means that it's not a free service.

Thank you

Have you tried calling Swiss customs?

Not my business, but it generally sounds like you would want to take a deep breath and think this through a lot more.

Think about more of the terrorist we have in the government that want to keep us in prison ? HELL NO. I am fed up with this **** really . To think that we are obliged to pay taxes for these living pieces of **** ruling this country makes me sick.

No I couldn't talk to them since they are closed on the damn weekend (and also on lunch break etc where I would have the time to call them).

You seem nice. Good luck then in DK. I hear their taxes are much lower and their government much more efficient.

Thank you. Continue staying here fueling these bastards then.

This all makes no sense and can't be serious, commercial/business transports have never been stopped in West-Europa before due to Corona, so while you might need to go into quirantaine and such if the numbers get high enough a professional moving company simply can do the job. So instead of lowering the risk you actually raise it. Not to mention that 5 to 6 times up and down to Denmark with a big van including packing/unpacking in 6 days is simply unrealistic.

Thank you for your answer @EdwinNL. Finally some useful points.

I mean 6 days per each rent/trip (as I wrote on the 2nd line) in order to get the required 3000km per each trip. So yeah it will be done over 1.5 - 2.0 (5-6 x 6 days) months most likely. I could probably get Remote Work so ~1.5 days for the trip up, ~1.5 days for the trip down (need to go in the week to get the German deposit back I believe), can work the rest of the time and the weekend as well.

It's 1200km trip. In car I can take 12h - 16h non stop depending on traffic (and how many idiots causing accidents on the road). It's tiring yeah, but better to pay a company that when you need it, just cancels because of a "pandemic" or declares bankrupcy and then what? You lose the 50% you gave them in advance (I expect no less than 10kCHF for this move with a "professional" company).

In Switzerland moving companies were forced to shut everything down during COVID-19 and all planned moves were put on hold. That's what was written on their own websites at least during the initial phases of the pandemic (April 2020 I believe).

Are you sure you mean relocation companies as well? Because, according to German Zoll.de for instance during COVID-19, only essential goods (food and medical equipment basically) were allowed to be transported. They don't care about somebodys' belongings or whatever else.

Thanks.

Cut down on your possessions as much as possible by selling and giving stuff away. Figure out how much you're left with in cubic metres. Subtract the stuff you really, really need until your actual moving date, but keep it down to a comfortable van load.

Get a quote for the big load from some Danish moving companies (some links below).

Get a quote for storage costs in Denmark. Nominate a family member to take charge of your stuff in Denmark.

https://www.euromovers.dk/main/moving-to-denmark
https://www.movewithmovers.com/mwm-country/denmark.html
https://www.eurosender.com/en/dd/switzerland-denmark

Rent a van for the rest of the stuff you'll be moving with on your last day. If you can find a company that does one-way rental, so much the better.

Compare the costs with the costs you've already figured out by doing multiple trips.

Sort out the necessary paperwork. Book a moving company to move the majority of your possessions as soon as possible.

Thank you for your answer @squeezethecroc.

I don't think cutting down on my possessions is really worth it (definitively too expensive to give it away for little $, especially computer equipment).

Unfortunately I don't have a job yet in Denmark. I didn't buy a house yet. From what I understood renting house in Denmark is crazy expensive, totally not worth it (compared to buying).

Also for Fiscal/Customs reasons, not sure which one should be done first, since I can only move goods duty free when I transfer my primary residence, but this also means that I will be taxed in Denmark for my swiss income while having to pay house/storage + swiss residence (2060 CHF!), which I can only cancel on 30 March now .

Why did you write "as soon as possible"? Due to COVID-19?

When I moved, I got rid of lots of clothes, shoes, books, kitchen equipment etc. I wrapped and packaged everything I wanted to keep myself, which brought the cost down and gave me an additional opportunity to trim things further. So far, I haven't missed anything I got rid of. But of course it's a toss-up between moving and storage costs and replacement costs. I think it's good to drag as little baggage with you, whether actual or metaphorical.

Sounds like you need to clarify quite a few issues. It's good you're cautious despite feeling fed up with Switzerland. Could you live with family or in a flat share in Denmark until you "find your feet?"

Could you find a Nachmieter for your flat if you want to move out sooner?

Yes ASAP because of Covid-19. I wouldn't be surprised if it'd rear its ugly head come autumn/winter with possible lockdowns. Having said that, I wouldn't rush into anything until you've sorted your new life in Denmark and your old life in Switzerland.

You have a point. I am actually trying to sell many things on tutti.ch but without much success (apart from the stuff everybody looks for ). Unfortunately the high price low volume stuff got sold, but not the low price high volume one .

For instance Books I think half (of my 5 book shelves) I could somehow just bring to the trash site. That would already save maybe 5-10 banana boxes.
Some IKEA shelves (8+ years old, have already been moved 3 times if not 4) I would give away for free as well. A IKEA Bookshelf (KALLAX ?) that is sitting in my laundry I would also give away ... The huge freezer I had just broke 3 weeks ago. It can still run at +5°C (like a Fridge) but for me it's useless. I can maybe try to put that on tutti.ch as defective if somebody wants to try to fix it, otherwise I'll just "walk it" on wheels to the thrash site (~ 500m) when they accept this kind of big kitchen devices.

It's not like I want to keep all things. But concerning Computers and electronics stuff, that I wouldn't just throw away .


I and my dog could live at my mother's place in the meantime, yeah. But anyway I would have to pay for insurance and storage since she doesn't have much room at her place. For low-price items I could probably ask some members of the family, since I won't be needing insurance for those things (books/shelves/kitchen items/....).

Everything is possible but it's kind of a chicken egg situation. And in Aargau I believe demand is much lower than Zug/Zürich/Geneva. There have been quite a few empty places in the apartment complex I'm living in now. What do I do first? Look for a job in Denmark my mother says. Makes it sound easy ... Somewhat I need to sort everything out before even canceling my current apartment. Talking about difficult:
- Cancel apartment / Find a Nachmieter
- Find a Job in Denmark
- Do job interviews in Denmark / Trips
- Find a House in Denmark / Find a Storage in Denmark
- Move Stuff
- Clean old Apartment
- Do all the administrative stuff

All of this while having huge stress problems (now exhacerbated due to COVID-19), stomach problems (I can only eat like ~5 ingredients/foods, e.g. white rice), fatigue problems and having a Dog. Before anybody says to go to a doctor let me clearly tell this to you: this is a problem that doctors created. 4 doses of antibiotics each year between 2014 and 2018 (including 1 huge allergic reaction!). So no, I'm not going to a doctor. There you get an antibiotic before even hearing "Hi". I'm in contact with a nutritionist to find a possible solution. Thank you for your understanding.

It's not like I can just hop onto a plane from one day to the next ... I could leave my dog to my mother for say 6 months, but then I would be really alone here (and he too probably). To be honest I have no ****** idea how to sort this mess out .

At the same time I'm still somewhat hoping for a better job here in Switzerland that would allow me to save some money to get a better house in Denmark in a few years. I should have had an answer these days but unfortunately that didn't happen, so now it's preparing for plan D ... Denmark.

I know what you mean, but do you see my problem? I cannot expect to find a Nachmieter in a few weeks (maybe if I "make a good deal" it an offer 20% discount for 3 months somebody will get it though, i.e. I pay 20% of the rent) - still better than wasting 6 months x 2060 CHF ... The job application process, even if I send 100 applications today, probably won't get an answer before 2-3 months. To get a house in Denmark with the Loan etc it's also like 3 months.

Next term to cancel apartment is March 30th. So again risk of being in the middle of COVID-19 again.

Otherwise June 30th. But that's 1 year away and I don't think I will survive if it continues like this.

I really feel trapped and taken as hostage right now

I guess if I can sort out the Job and find a Nachmieter 80% of the stress would be gone and I could see the light at the end of the tunnel ...

You could try and put stuff for sale on this forum. You could also put out for sale cards on the noticeboards at your local supermarkets. You never know... . Ultimately, it might be cheaper to give away bulky stuff for free, such as book cases and buy new/secondhand in Denmark.
I didn't get of my techie toys either, apart from a big box of cables.
"Unfortunately the high price low volume stuff got sold, but not the low price high volume one".
I guess the good news is that you might be able to pick up low price/high volume stuff cheaply and easily in Denmark too.
Storage facilities in Denmark might come with insurance. Worth checking out.

I think your mother is right. Look for a job in Denmark. And make sure you get one that is right for you. You wouldn't want to end up in a worse situation. I would have thought a holiday/fact finding mission in Denmark would help you make decisions that are right for you. I'd also use that time to talk to prospective employers, look at houses and go and talk to a Danish bank or two to get precise and current information regarding mortgages. Find storage facilities near where your mother lives and check out their rates.

Once you have a job offer, things will fall more easily into place. Explain your situation to your new Danish employer to agree on timing that works with you giving up your apartment in Switzerland.

Decide on how you're going to move your stuff. Given that you are wrestling with a number of issues - not all them of a practical nature - I wouldn't worry about saving a few hundred quid. The toll half a dozen trips would take on your physical and mental health isn't worth it. In fact, the reason I jumped in on this thread in the first place was that very idea, which made all sorts of warning signs go up in my head.

I can see that you're suffering from stress. And probably sadness and anger as well. Maybe even depression. There's no judgement in that, it happens to all of us at some point.

You are obviously very disenchanted with Swiss politics. Talk to your Danish family and friends about Danish politics. It might help to put things in to perspective.

If you haven't already done so, I hope you have supportive family and friends. Talking all this through with people who have your best interests at heart can be very positive, especially if you're willing to listen and hear what they have to say, even if their views don't align with yours.

I also think that seeing a nutritionist is a good step in the right direction. And maybe change your GP.

You make it sound like having a dog is part of all your problems. Try and change that round and appreciate that your dog is your companion who loves you and relies on you. He'll keep you grounded. Being responsible for another living being is a positive thing in your situation, but your comments shows that you understand that. Forgive me, I don't want to sound patronizing, but since I don't know you, I just give you my thoughts straight.

Since you're also hoping for a better job in Switzerland, it seems that you're not totally ready to move to Denmark. Look for jobs in both countries and see what comes up, but be prepared to be patient; it'll probably take longer anyway because of covid-19.

Despite your problems and uncertainties, you seem to be fully aware of the issues and ways to solve them. Just try to not over-think them. It's way to soon to worry about cleaning your flat, for example.

If you want my unsolicited advice, I suggest that a) you meet up with a mate you can be completely open and honest with.
b) book a holiday/fact finding mission to Denmark (travel restrictions permitting)
c) look after your health. Nutritionist, maybe new GP, maybe therapist if you don't want to talk things through with a mate or family. CBT might be useful.
d) make life-changing decisions when you're in a better place emotionally. These type of decisions should be made from a position of strength, rather than when you are at your lowest.

Btw, I have a friend who also had stomach problems, which were treated with lots of antibiotics, for a very long time. He changed GP, got an MRI and had to have his gallbladder taken out. He's fine now. I'm not saying you've got the same thing, but a second opinion might help.
All the best

I am starting with the Broken Freezer and some of the furniture that is quite old. In Aargau you also have to pay to get rid of wood, so yeah it's (almost) better to give it away for free .

I originally thought about going to Denmark the 2nd half of August but probably due to Holidays at the employers side and no interview scheduled yet, it's probably not worth it. Maybe better in September? Another problem is that I got not much of paid holidays (only the legal minimum basically ...).

A potential advantage might be that recruiting People from Abroad in Denmark gives them some special tax benefits for the first few years. Not sure if that also applies to me that has Danish citizenship though.

I had an interview in the past already. When I mentioned 3 months (or 4 months notice) they were caught off guard and didn't want to wait. Well the notice period is similar in Denmark though ...

I think it's much more than that. I expect 10'000 CHF for the company move. I looked at the documents my mother sent me when she moved from Switzerland to Denmark. The T1 form establishment costs 80 CHF (at the time at least) and import into denmark costs about 100 CHF. So about 200 CHF each trip. Plus 850 CHF truck. Plus fuel (I guess 8 liters / 100 diesel averaging between empty and full -> 210 liters / trip x 1.4 € / liter ~ 300 EUR / trip ~ 320 CHF / trip). So yeah once you factor that in it becomes less interesting (850 CHF + 200 CHF + 320 CHf ~ 1400 CHF / trip). And with 5 trips that's already 7000 CHF anyway.

So you'd say I would save much more if I ask a friend to help me pack & disassemble the furniture instead? So the guys just come, load, unload at the destination, but don't need to disassemble/assemble everything ?


Oh yeah I know, all governments are ***** up with this COVID-19 situation. If it continues like this there will for sure be a civil war. I'd prefer to move before things get out of control.


He's not a problem, he's a lovely boy for sure . But I mean that it's a bit more complicated ... I cannot basically go on a plane with him (expensive / not agreable to dogs) so only option is to take the car to go to Denmark. But maybe I should only take 1.5 weeks holidays so far, so that I can still go to Denmark 1 or 2 more times this year ...

I'm afraid patience is the one thing I for sure don't have .


You make a good point but, again, I don't want to wait forever. I've been waiting and trying to fix my health issues for several years. For what I know it could be cronic.

Having the Gallbladder removed sounds a very bad idea. From what I read the first thing to do is changing the diet. Remove all animal products & oils and go on a whole food plant based diet. Now that COVID-19 hit and we see all the people in the slaughterhauses falling sick (plus all animal rights and lastly the cost) I went vegan since 2 months.

You pay for the distance and you pay for the hours. Everything they do for you will cost you money, and having stacks of boxes and a bunch of packages ready for them to load up is a lot cheaper then them having to dismantle and wrap up everything.

And Feel free to get some quotes from Swiss companies and German companies.

Yes makes sense. I think you actually pay the hours, the distance, and the volume .

Thank you for the suggestion. I'd like to but, in the past I already tried, and unless I have EXACT address (including house number and floor) they simply refuse to quote at all. You cannot simply ask for "Lenzburg AG 3rd floor with Lift" to "somewhere near Aarhus ground floor". They just stubbornly refuse. That's why I was also preferring to go the DIY route .

For some reason, I can't seem to quote your text.
So here are some more thoughts:

I got rid of as much stuff as possible. But like you, I kept all my favourite computer equipment. I ended up with one van load of stuff. A friend of mine has a van, and he offered to drive me, my stuff and my two cats to Switzerland from the UK. He helped with the packing and loading/unloading. We stayed one night in France, had an amusing and leisurely trip despite having to limp into Switzerland as one wheel had a tear and kept losing air. The whole trip, including overnight stay, petrol, winter tyres, French motorway tolls, food, ferries and my friend's return costs cost me just under a grand. Disassembling, packing and loading/unloading with friends will definitely reduce your costs.
I had quotes of between GBP 500 to 3500 for the move from UK companies, but some of them I wouldn't have trusted with my cats.


Get some quotes from Danish and Swiss moving companies and try and be as accurate with the volume as you can. You obviously have a lot more stuff than I do, so an accurate estimate of volume is really important.


I'd take whatever holidays you can. Hopefully, it'll help you clear your head.

Perhaps you can get work in Denmark by signing up with an agency that specializes in your field. They might be able to advise on things such as notice period, tax, and whatever else you're unsure of.

I'm not convinced there'll be a civil war because of covid-19. It's a new situation for all of us but the human race is quite good at adapting. That's why we've done so well for the last 150'000 years or so. I wouldn't stress about it too much at the moment - deal with whatever happens when it happens. Chances are that it won't. The civil war, I mean.

Can somebody else look after your dog for a couple of weeks while you go to Denmark? That would be the easiest option for now. I wouldn't have wanted to put my cats on a plane either!

Patience can be learnt. People often think that patience - or lack of - is just something they either have or haven't. Not so. Think of it as a skill that can be acquired.
https://www.mindtools.com/pages/article/newTCS_78.htm

Your health issues are almost certainly chronic, given your descriptions. Becoming vegan could also account, at least in part, for your fatigue. Your body takes time to adjust. Don't worry, your gallbladder is probably perfectly fine. I only mentioned my friend's story because his health issues were also chronic and mismanaged, which resulted in the gallbladder problem. If he had been diagnosed correctly earlier, the removal of his gallbladder might have been avoided. He'd also changed his diet, but it didn't make enough of a difference.

In any case, I'd make your health issues your number one problem to deal with. Whether you move to Denmark or look for another job in Switzerland, you need to be physically and mentally well.
I wish you well.

Just put in fictitious addresses, but addresses that actually exist. I think I put in the address of a nearby bank at one end and the address of a post office at the other. It's only for a quote after all.

Yeah I guess that if the quote is about 7000 CHF or 8000 CHF it's better to go with the company (cheaper). Higher than that I would start questioning.

When I moved to Aargau I probably had around 250 boxes. Plus furniture, kitchen equipment, computers, weights for weight lifting / crossfit device, etc



You mean sort of a head hunter? Or a placement agency?
Or a consultancy company? I am already working as a consultant and to be honest I just hate it. Low wages, you get thrown around pretty much however they like, minimum social benefits, etc. I mean consultancy company would be an option in the short term and maybe I could get an internal transfer too. But it's really not a situation where I feel confortable.

Yes they could. But I'm not sure I could trust them. And not for the reason you think ... My dog is just too nice and cute. They wouldn't handle him back .

I was fatigued before going vegan too. I've been fatigued for the last 3 years at least. COVID-19 social isolation made it worse though. It's probably the overuse of antibiotics by these doctors really. I hope these stomach tests I'm currently taking will help pin point the issue.

And about your previous idea of changing GP: I had different doctors when I was near Geneva (1x), Nyon (2x) and now Aargau (1x). All of them prescribe antibiotics as if they were candies. I'd rather go with essential oils or natural extracts in the future (if ever needed).

Agreed. But I cannot spend 10 years of my life hoping it will be better. I've had chronic eye problems for over 15 years already, I know what it's like to deal with chronic problems. They just don't get better.

For now I'll just assume it's like this forever, even if it sucks. Heck it's hardly a life being able to just eat white rice and carrots (plus something else occasionally). I think in Denmark I could get some better medical treatment without having to pay the analysis (blood/scans/etc).


Thank you for all your suggestions

If it helps, we moved from DK to CH two years ago, and I paid 11000 CHF for packing and transport. 4 person household, around 200 boxes, in total about 50 m3 if I remember correctly.

I have driven Zurich - Copenhagen once, in a normal car. There is no way on earth I would do this 5 times back and forth in a row with some crappy rental van.

Oh, and Denmark sucks.

Well back to you there ... Being alone sucks and to be honest Swiss people are amongst the least trustworthy, friendly and loyal on Earth. I had enough of so called Swiss Friends (just using me when they need me) and Cheating Swiss Girlfriends .

I guess you would complain about Taxes in Denmark. I also heard about gangs in big cities, shootings, some Russian presence there as well. What else am I missing ?