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Old 24.08.2020, 09:16
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I am having a nightmare with HMRC - sending my belongings back to UK

OMG I am having a total nightmare with HMRC and wondered if anyone can offer any sensible words of encouragement as to what other options I have here. I am super emotional so please be kind to me EF'ers , this is no time for being mean.

I have been on a Swiss contract since 2016 and cut all financial ties with UK (ie no property back there) in order that I was not paying UK tax. I have had to make the really difficult decision to return to the UK due to my parents declining health. I have not told my parents I am coming back as they will really stress out and I didn't need the extra pressure.

So I am returning without a job and anywhere to live (mental note to self, I really do make life complicated for myself). I have the financial means to support myself so I planned to rent somewhere until I decide what I want to do workwise or where I want to live etc.

I thought as a British Citizen returning to their home country with the same belongings that I came out here with that it would be a straight forward process but oh no the HRMC would have it otherwise.

I submitted a Transfer of Residence request to the HMRC a couple of weeks ago which they rejected as I cannot prove that I have a job in UK or that I have anywhere to live (I had listed a self-storage facility on the ToR form with a view that I would live in a hotel for a couple of weeks whilst I found somewhere to rent). Why does it even matter if I am a British Citizen returning from working overseas?

I can't even rent anywhere in the UK whilst being in CH as the Estate Agent needs to be perform a right to rent check which means seeing me in person with my passport..... arrgggghhhhh - we tried to do this via Face Time but this was not accepted as evidence.

So the HMRC asked me to provide a statement from a family member confirming I could live with them, which I did over a week ago. Today I receive another refusal from HMRC as they now want me to physically write my Sister's address on the ToR form (why didn't they ask me to do this a week ago when I sent the statement in?). I've just done this and sent the form back to them but we've lost a week for nothing.

The shipping agent is having kittens as they are moving my belongings next week and need the ToR number.

If this gets refused again does anyone know what my options are? I just want to go home. Who knew going home would be so difficult!
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Old 24.08.2020, 09:23
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Re: I am having a nightmare with HMRC - sending my belongings back to UK

What a nightmare. When I moved back to the UK I didn't even consider anything like that, i just stuck my stuff in a transit van and drove over, no paperwork at all

Have you tried phoning them? It might be quicker and you might get more sense out of them if you call rather than write/email.
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Old 24.08.2020, 09:29
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Re: I am having a nightmare with HMRC - sending my belongings back to UK

Do the same rules apply if the goods are coming from an EU country? If not try shipping via Germany, France or Italy.
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Old 24.08.2020, 09:34
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Re: I am having a nightmare with HMRC - sending my belongings back to UK

Yes, the same rules apply to all EU countries.

I think I am also having an emotional reaction to the fact that I suspect (given the time stamp of their replies and tone of the letters) that this work may be offshored so it is someone outside the UK making a decision about my case. I work for an international business, i deal with off shoring all the time so I have no idea why this is making me emotional but I recognise that it is grrrrrrrr.

Is it too early in the day for a Vodka Tonic?
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Old 24.08.2020, 09:44
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Re: I am having a nightmare with HMRC - sending my belongings back to UK

Looks like they are regarding you as a non UK national from a non EU state.
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Old 24.08.2020, 09:46
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Re: I am having a nightmare with HMRC - sending my belongings back to UK

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Yes, the same rules apply to all EU countries.

I think I am also having an emotional reaction to the fact that I suspect (given the time stamp of their replies and tone of the letters) that this work may be offshored so it is someone outside the UK making a decision about my case. I work for an international business, i deal with off shoring all the time so I have no idea why this is making me emotional but I recognise that it is grrrrrrrr.

Is it too early in the day for a Vodka Tonic?
Is there a phone number? Call them.If not try this one 0300 200 3700 https://www.gov.uk/government/public...r-relief-tor01
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Old 24.08.2020, 09:52
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Re: I am having a nightmare with HMRC - sending my belongings back to UK

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OMG I am having a total nightmare with HMRC and wondered if anyone can offer any sensible words of encouragement as to what other options I have here. I am super emotional so please be kind to me EF'ers , this is no time for being mean.

I have been on a Swiss contract since 2016 and cut all financial ties with UK (ie no property back there) in order that I was not paying UK tax. I have had to make the really difficult decision to return to the UK due to my parents declining health. I have not told my parents I am coming back as they will really stress out and I didn't need the extra pressure.

So I am returning without a job and anywhere to live (mental note to self, I really do make life complicated for myself). I have the financial means to support myself so I planned to rent somewhere until I decide what I want to do workwise or where I want to live etc.

I thought as a British Citizen returning to their home country with the same belongings that I came out here with that it would be a straight forward process but oh no the HRMC would have it otherwise.

I submitted a Transfer of Residence request to the HMRC a couple of weeks ago which they rejected as I cannot prove that I have a job in UK or that I have anywhere to live (I had listed a self-storage facility on the ToR form with a view that I would live in a hotel for a couple of weeks whilst I found somewhere to rent). Why does it even matter if I am a British Citizen returning from working overseas?

I can't even rent anywhere in the UK whilst being in CH as the Estate Agent needs to be perform a right to rent check which means seeing me in person with my passport..... arrgggghhhhh - we tried to do this via Face Time but this was not accepted as evidence.

So the HMRC asked me to provide a statement from a family member confirming I could live with them, which I did over a week ago. Today I receive another refusal from HMRC as they now want me to physically write my Sister's address on the ToR form (why didn't they ask me to do this a week ago when I sent the statement in?). I've just done this and sent the form back to them but we've lost a week for nothing.

The shipping agent is having kittens as they are moving my belongings next week and need the ToR number.

If this gets refused again does anyone know what my options are? I just want to go home. Who knew going home would be so difficult!
this sounds like HMRC being clowns. as a UK Citizen you can move back to the UK. If you were a foreign national it would apply (having a job) but they cannot stop a british citizen from coming home.
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Old 24.08.2020, 10:20
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Re: I am having a nightmare with HMRC - sending my belongings back to UK

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OMG I am having a total nightmare with HMRC and wondered if anyone can offer any sensible words of encouragement as to what other options I have here. I am super emotional so please be kind to me EF'ers , this is no time for being mean.

I have been on a Swiss contract since 2016 and cut all financial ties with UK (ie no property back there) in order that I was not paying UK tax. I have had to make the really difficult decision to return to the UK due to my parents declining health. I have not told my parents I am coming back as they will really stress out and I didn't need the extra pressure.

So I am returning without a job and anywhere to live (mental note to self, I really do make life complicated for myself). I have the financial means to support myself so I planned to rent somewhere until I decide what I want to do workwise or where I want to live etc.

I thought as a British Citizen returning to their home country with the same belongings that I came out here with that it would be a straight forward process but oh no the HRMC would have it otherwise.

I submitted a Transfer of Residence request to the HMRC a couple of weeks ago which they rejected as I cannot prove that I have a job in UK or that I have anywhere to live (I had listed a self-storage facility on the ToR form with a view that I would live in a hotel for a couple of weeks whilst I found somewhere to rent). Why does it even matter if I am a British Citizen returning from working overseas?

I can't even rent anywhere in the UK whilst being in CH as the Estate Agent needs to be perform a right to rent check which means seeing me in person with my passport..... arrgggghhhhh - we tried to do this via Face Time but this was not accepted as evidence.

So the HMRC asked me to provide a statement from a family member confirming I could live with them, which I did over a week ago. Today I receive another refusal from HMRC as they now want me to physically write my Sister's address on the ToR form (why didn't they ask me to do this a week ago when I sent the statement in?). I've just done this and sent the form back to them but we've lost a week for nothing.

The shipping agent is having kittens as they are moving my belongings next week and need the ToR number.

If this gets refused again does anyone know what my options are? I just want to go home. Who knew going home would be so difficult!
Transfer of residence is a simple concept, you have no place to live so it's fairly obvious what the issue is! No residence to transfer to

Try this in CH, can't wait for the Friday thread.
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Old 24.08.2020, 11:03
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Re: I am having a nightmare with HMRC - sending my belongings back to UK

Can't you use your parents' address - and simply go to the UK.

I don't see what a British citizen entering Britain has to do with the tax office!
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Old 24.08.2020, 11:14
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Re: I am having a nightmare with HMRC - sending my belongings back to UK

Thanks guys!

They'll of course let me go home, it's my belongings that they are refusing :-)

Their phone lines are so busy you can't even sit in a queue, the routing service just tells you to phone back at another time and disconnects the call which is rather frustrating as you have to listen to a message that lasts for about 10 minutes before you know that you can't wait on the line grrrrrrr.

It's actually the Customs team who are handling with this rather than the Revenue people.

I was just being too honest and declaring that i didn't have a permanent residence (am sure that now I've put my sister's address on the form they'll share information with Revenue people and I will now have to justify why I am not paying UK tax in September as i have now somewhere to live …….).

As no one told me I couldn't have a Vodka I took that as silent consent :-)

Thanks for listening to my rant anyway, made me feel better to write it down
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Old 24.08.2020, 13:06
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Re: I am having a nightmare with HMRC - sending my belongings back to UK

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It's actually the Customs team who are handling with this rather than the Revenue people.
Have you sat down and worked out how much money is involved? If all your stuff is old it should not amount to a lot. To get over the hump I’d be inclined to pay it and the dispute it with them, it can be sorted out later.

It is not as if you are not going to move based on this.
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Old 24.08.2020, 14:16
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Re: I am having a nightmare with HMRC - sending my belongings back to UK

Can you put your belongings here in storage, and have them shipped later when you have the permanent address in UK? That might make clearing the customs easier? Rtemoval companies often provide this service - actually I am surprised they didn't suggest you this option?


Maybe look for a different removal company that is better specialized in international removals? They might know better what to do
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Old 24.08.2020, 14:27
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Re: I am having a nightmare with HMRC - sending my belongings back to UK

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Can you put your belongings here in storage, and have them shipped later when you have the permanent address in UK? That might make clearing the customs easier? Rtemoval companies often provide this service - actually I am surprised they didn't suggest you this option?


Maybe look for a different removal company that is better specialized in international removals? They might know better what to do
or just drive over with your stuff. no one is going to realistically stop you at calais your a brit coming home, then move to your parents and tell HMRC thats where you now live.
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Old 24.08.2020, 14:54
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Re: I am having a nightmare with HMRC - sending my belongings back to UK

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Can you put your belongings here in storage, and have them shipped later when you have the permanent address in UK? That might make clearing the customs easier? Rtemoval companies often provide this service - actually I am surprised they didn't suggest you this option?


Maybe look for a different removal company that is better specialized in international removals? They might know better what to do
I'm paying an international shipping specialist a small fortune plus a kidney to do this move and they are at a total loss as to why the HMRC have acted in this way but it's still down to me to sort it out. This is the same firm that was used to bring me out here and they did a good job so I was kind of hoping.... better the devil you know.

I am funding this relocation myself so I was hoping to avoid the extra costs of storage but I think this may have to be route I need to take (I think this is preferable than me driving across Europe on my own in a lorry …. I have a lot of stuff and it also means I have to go into Quarantine when I get back as I will have been in France)…. bloody hell now I am crying again... get a grip woman!!!

Thanks though everyone for the ideas. Much appreciated
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Old 24.08.2020, 15:51
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Re: I am having a nightmare with HMRC - sending my belongings back to UK

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or just drive over with your stuff. no one is going to realistically stop you at calais your a brit coming home, then move to your parents and tell HMRC thats where you now live.
Calais is not the problem... entering the UK is the issue.
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Old 24.08.2020, 16:06
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Re: I am having a nightmare with HMRC - sending my belongings back to UK

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I'm paying an international shipping specialist a small fortune plus a kidney to do this move and they are at a total loss as to why the HMRC have acted in this way but it's still down to me to sort it out.
Well it is pretty obvious, you don't have a job nor a property in the UK, so there is nothing to indicate to them that you are genuinely return to the UK on a permanent basis. For all they know, you might be importing the furniture etc to sell it or have already sold it, next morning you're on a ferry to Dublin and a fight to where ever and they have no way of knowing it.

May be trying explaining to them that your are returning to be the primary carer for you aged parents, you will be living with them and that clearly they will need your support for the long term, so there is no question of this being a short term thing.
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Old 24.08.2020, 21:27
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Re: I am having a nightmare with HMRC - sending my belongings back to UK

"I have been on a Swiss contract since 2016 and cut all financial ties with UK (ie no property back there) in order that I was not paying UK tax."


I don't understand the tax thing. OH moved here at the end of 2014, I was granted residency in the spring of 2016. We have 2 properties in Scotland, one is a long term rental place we've had for 14 years, the other is our house and we haven't been liable for income tax in the UK for over 2 years now. Only tax we pay is council tax for the house, the rental property income is exempt from tax as we are registered as overseas landlords.
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Old 25.08.2020, 07:57
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Re: I am having a nightmare with HMRC - sending my belongings back to UK

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"I have been on a Swiss contract since 2016 and cut all financial ties with UK (ie no property back there) in order that I was not paying UK tax."
Thats what you do if you wish to lose 'UK Domicile' which is not the same as residence, it takes about 20 years to establish a domicile of choice, however you revert to your domicile of origin if you move countries & the clock starts again.
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Old 25.08.2020, 09:08
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Re: I am having a nightmare with HMRC - sending my belongings back to UK

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Thats what you do if you wish to lose 'UK Domicile' which is not the same as residence, it takes about 20 years to establish a domicile of choice, however you revert to your domicile of origin if you move countries & the clock starts again.
Then I have absolutely no idea why PWC asked me to fill a form in the first year I was here for HMRC demonstrating I have no ties with the UK (no property, no children that I've left there, not back in the UK for more than x number of days a year etc) and HMRC send me the same form to complete every year.
OMG does that make me a form monkey.....
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Old 25.08.2020, 09:24
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Re: I am having a nightmare with HMRC - sending my belongings back to UK

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Then I have absolutely no idea why PWC asked me to fill a form in the first year I was here for HMRC demonstrating I have no ties with the UK (no property, no children that I've left there, not back in the UK for more than x number of days a year etc) and HMRC send me the same form to complete every year.
OMG does that make me a form monkey.....
Did you have a full time contract of employment in CH, less than 91 days in the UK & less than 30 days in the UK?
https://www.gov.uk/tax-foreign-income/residence

To get out of CGT you need to be away for 5 full tax years.
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