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Old 26.08.2020, 21:21
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We left for NL!!

Dear EF,

Forgive me for not updating you earlier, but about half April we left CH, after a little more than 10 years in Zurich, to our home country, in general for family reasons, specifically for a new job (it was very hard to move into industry as an academic in CH and I was more successful finding a challenging and well paid job back home).

I would like to THANK all of you for all the tips, advice and entertainment since we started to consider to live in CH early 2009, this place is great fun and a great resource and I find myself still logging in and catching up regularly even though it is of little use now we are not residents anymore.

For now we are missing the friends we left behind, the mountains and lake Zurich and the Limmat in the summer. What we don't miss as much is the 1000 CHF/month health insurance premiums (now at 200!) and we are also happy to realize we are actually able to afford a family home with garden in an urban area, and generally it feels like a warm bath to be back in your 'own' culture and close to your loved ones (but this obviously could be very individual!).

If anyone is interested I can elaborate on some of the following connected to leaving:

- deregistering / giving up your permit on different dates as a married couple with kids (thanks to the travel restrictions due to corona it was necessary for one of us to keep the permit to be allowed back in to transfer our apartment!)

- doing your last tax declaration in ZH with a C-permit - we assumed we have until 2021 to file but NO we got a 'mahnung' and realize they gave us little over a (ONE!!!) month to file. Luckily we were able to extend a little, still this is ridiculous, especially as we pre-paid and actually they owe us money!

- setting up 'freizuegigkeitskonten' in CH for our pensions using investment funds

- paying out our 3a accounts after moving

- getting back our apartment deposit from abroad

- exporting unemployment money (my husband quit his job because I moved abroad after being unemployed for 3 and underemployed for 6 months). With some punishment days he was still able to get about a month of the 3 max months of payments. The process was very bureaucratic and tbh I'm not sure it was worth the effort.

- Recommendation for a moving to NL (Schmidt global logistics) and final apartment cleaning company (Total Reinigung).

If I think of anything else, I will write more. As I'm not on here regularly anymore, please also send a PM if you have specific questions, I will get an email and will come back to answer them!!!

Bye bye EF, for now at least, my new company happens to be Swiss, and if we realize we made a BIG mistake leaving, there might be a way back in again
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  #2  
Old 26.08.2020, 21:49
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Re: We left for NL!!

Paid taxes yet?

I'm sure it's great to be home, enjoy and all the best.
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Old 26.08.2020, 22:17
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Re: We left for NL!!

Have fun in my home country (and yes, Schmidt Global does a great job)
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Old 26.08.2020, 22:17
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Re: We left for NL!!

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Paid taxes yet?

I'm sure it's great to be home, enjoy and all the best.
Thank you!!!!

Oh gosh YES about 40% tax at source this month Would be a bit less without company car. And this year sucks extra big time as our Swiss income in the first 1/3 year messes up our eligibility for child care support and many other perks! My advice: always move on the 31.12
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Old 26.08.2020, 22:18
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Re: We left for NL!!

Great move, congrats !
I would very much appreciate if you could give us details about how you managed the freizuegigkeits- and 3a accounts issue.
Thank you in advance.
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Old 26.08.2020, 22:54
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Re: We left for NL!!

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Great move, congrats !
I would very much appreciate if you could give us details about how you managed the freizuegigkeits- and 3a accounts issue.
Thank you in advance.
Thank you!

We moved our 3a to the Liberty vorsorgestiftung in Zug liberty.ch to pay less tax at source upon payout. They have a calculator to see if this makes sense for the canton your present 3a vorsorgestiftung resides in. For 10 years worth of 3a savings sitting in Basel Stadt we saved about 1k altogether, worth it for us.

After moving we had to provide proof of residence in NL to liberty, as well as a signed permission from spouse, legalized by a Dutch notary. The payout took several weeks without problems!

We requested our 2nd pillar savings to be split into 2 separate accounts per person. This is only allowed if you choose separate 'freizuegigkeitsstiftungen' and it could be that not every pension fund allows this. We again chose liberty and the other tellco, both in Zug. Splitting might be favourable to be paid out over 2 years paying less tax at source in CH or if you want to take out part of your funds only to buy property in the future.

We understood it is always possible to switch freizuegigkeitsstiftungen afterwards, but you have to open the accounts before you leave.

We chose to invest as it doesn't make sense to leave in a low-interest savings account for 30 years, although that might be a good low risk option if you would like to use the money for buying property within a few years. In this case you can get the 2nd pillar paid out - you could anyway get part of it - the 'ueberobligatorisches teil' paid out, and some people might prefer this as it is in principle possible to invest yourself in ETFs at lower costs.

An independent financial advisor advised us 2 managed BVG-conform funds at liberty (you could chose up to 5 and are free to chose ANY fund if you invest 250K+) and we chose a medium-risk managed fund at tellco ourselves.

We enquired about the possibility at ZKB to use one of their ETF based funds at lower cost but never got a reply, they don't seem too keen on customers abroad and also the amounts we wanted to invest are modest (about 50k per person per stiftung).

We haven't worried too much about what will happen with these funds tax-wise in NL when we retire. It is still a long time and everything could change.

Let's see how all of this will pan out

Hope this helps!

[EDIT] Please note that some have been successful cashing out 100% of their 2nd pillar even while leaving for the EU: https://www.englishforum.ch/finance-...s-pension.html

From what I understood this is not possible for us as being employees we are mandatory insured for the 2nd pillar here in NL

Last edited by mgosia; 26.08.2020 at 23:23. Reason: Added link for 100% cashout thread
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Old 29.08.2020, 15:07
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Re: We left for NL!!

I am studying the possibility to move to Portugal and getting 100% of 2nd pillar.
The rules are: Your first and own property and you have mortgage. Meaning can not be holidays house or flat and so on.

I did not start yet the move out to Portugal but i will do a post like you. This was an amazing post. Thanks.
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Old 31.08.2020, 12:35
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Re: We left for NL!!

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the Liberty vorsorgestiftung in Zug
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We again chose liberty and the other tellco, both in Zug.
Just realized this should be Schwyz
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Old 31.08.2020, 13:37
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Re: We left for NL!!

Mgosia, thank you for writing down all these details and steps. It surely looks like we have a lot of things to worry about (when/if moving back)...
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Old 31.08.2020, 13:41
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Re: We left for NL!!

Just a quick question:
Was easy to leave flat and all contracts: Energy, Mobile, Internet.
Also car insurance and so on?
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Old 31.08.2020, 23:00
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Re: We left for NL!!

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Just a quick question:
Was easy to leave flat and all contracts: Energy, Mobile, Internet.
Also car insurance and so on?
Flat was nightmare because just after first viewings to find a ‘nachmieter’ / replacement tenant the lockdown started. Got rid of it last minute and had to travel back for transfer. I still think it is a disgrace how the rental law is organized here. Who cares there is a pandemic?? YOU still have to find someone to take over your agreement or pay up for 4 more months.

All other contracts no problem with proof of deregistering.
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Old 01.09.2020, 09:50
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Re: We left for NL!!

As half Dutch I am every now and then thinking about moving back - even tough the chances are getting more and more remote (kids are in school here...)

What I see as the biggest "challenge" is the housing market in NL. Renting prices are almost as high as CH, but income is much lower - so for me not really a (long term) option. Buying with a mortgage is an option, but we never bought a house before and it looks so "definitive": I would like to see if the job and environment fits well (must say that my family, Parents etc, live in Brazil, so there is no real family ties in NL) before buying.

So, I know it is/can be seen as very personal, but how did you manage this aspect of employment and housing?

I can recomment ben Schmidt as well, he brought our stuff from NL back in 2014!.
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Old 01.09.2020, 10:00
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Re: We left for NL!!

We are living with family temporarily and are looking to buy soon. We will put our 3a’s and some other savings in as downpayment. A 500k mortgage will see about 1.5k in net monthly repayments for 30 years when 200K is not paid off at all. You could buy for less in our medium sized city in the Randstad, for even less outside of it. But you are right, there is a housing crisis. Neither property to buy or to rent in the mid-segment is being built in high enough numbers. It feels like permanent to buy but is not really the case in NL: the previous owners of a house we just put a bid in for (fingers crossed!!!) lived there 2 years only before selling.

So although our net income is only half of that in Switzerland, we have a very similar quality of life because of the lower living costs. Just with a larger and nicer home that we will hopefully own soon!
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Old 03.09.2020, 10:24
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Re: We left for NL!!

many thanks for the reply! I wish you good luck on the house hunting!
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Old 03.09.2020, 14:43
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Re: We left for NL!!

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As half Dutch I am every now and then thinking about moving back - even tough the chances are getting more and more remote (kids are in school here...)

What I see as the biggest "challenge" is the housing market in NL. Renting prices are almost as high as CH, but income is much lower - so for me not really a (long term) option. Buying with a mortgage is an option, but we never bought a house before and it looks so "definitive": I would like to see if the job and environment fits well (must say that my family, Parents etc, live in Brazil, so there is no real family ties in NL) before buying.

So, I know it is/can be seen as very personal, but how did you manage this aspect of employment and housing?

I can recomment ben Schmidt as well, he brought our stuff from NL back in 2014!.
I'm Dutch and have been in touch with ABN AMRO bank in the past on mortgages. I was told I could get a mortgage to buy a property back home on my Swiss salary, assuming I would put down at least 15% cash. Me being from Amsterdam that would mean a price of at least EUR 600K for a nice 3 bedroom apartment, but that's still a lot better to me than having to put down at least 10% cash on 1.5+ million for a place here.
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