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-   -   Swiss Pension( Vested Benefits ) (https://www.englishforum.ch/leaving-switzerland/301114-swiss-pension-vested-benefits.html)

spooks 08.11.2020 15:18

Hi
Firstly I'm sorry I'm sure this has been covered

I left Switzerland in 2017 and currently have 84000 chf in vested benefits at UBS

They tell me I can only take out to buy a property at home here in UK

Thats fine also but I also here if I do so I will pay a hefty tax in UK?

I'd love to take it out as cash and wonder also if UK leave the EU Dec 31 if cash also becomes an option?

Sorry for the questions any guidance appreciated

By the way I'm 52 . Dont know if age has an affect

fatmanfilms 08.11.2020 22:34

Re: Swiss Pension( Vested Benefits )
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by spooks (Post 3236906)
Hi
Firstly I'm sorry I'm sure this has been covered

I left Switzerland in 2017 and currently have 84000 chf in vested benefits at UBS

They tell me I can only take out to buy a property at home here in UK

Thats fine also but I also here if I do so I will pay a hefty tax in UK?

I'd love to take it out as cash and wonder also if UK leave the EU Dec 31 if cash also becomes an option?

Sorry for the questions any guidance appreciated

By the way I'm 52 . Dont know if age has an affect

Depending on your employment status you might be able to take it all. It's down to the compulsory insurance requirement for a pension. If not working or self employed you can take all the cash. In most cases the withholding tax is all you need to pay.
UK/CH agreements are unlikely to change.

spooks 09.11.2020 01:15

Re: Swiss Pension( Vested Benefits )
 
I work full time.e in uk

fatmanfilms 09.11.2020 09:37

Re: Swiss Pension( Vested Benefits )
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by spooks (Post 3237072)
I work full time.e in uk

Then you can only get the extra mandatory as cash. You can probably use it to buy a house but if the house is sold the money needs to be paid back.

LuganoPirate 09.11.2020 14:38

Re: Swiss Pension( Vested Benefits )
 
You are fully entitled to take a cash payout (pension 2 and 3) when you leave Switzerland. They cannot compel you to buy a house in the UK. I think they are misleading you.

fatmanfilms 09.11.2020 14:42

Re: Swiss Pension( Vested Benefits )
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by LuganoPirate (Post 3237247)
You are fully entitled to take a cash payout (pension 2 and 3) when you leave Switzerland. They cannot compel you to buy a house in the UK. I think they are misleading you.

He canít take 100% in cash at 52 if working in the Uk, house purchase is an option

LuganoPirate 10.11.2020 01:45

Re: Swiss Pension( Vested Benefits )
 
If you leave the country you can take the 2nd and 3rd pillar with you. We did when we left for South Africa.

aSwissInTheUS 10.11.2020 02:03

Re: Swiss Pension( Vested Benefits )
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by LuganoPirate (Post 3237459)
If you leave the country you can take the 2nd and 3rd pillar with you. We did when we left for South Africa.

:rolleyes:

Here the rules regarding cash payment directly from the relevant office in Switzerland which must approve any pillar 2 cash payment.
http://www.verbindungsstelle.ch/xml_...on/d51/f61.cfm

Pillar 3a is different and pillar 3b is anyway absolutely free of any restrictions. Anytime even in Switzerland (except for the wife or husband which might have an eye on it.)

fatmanfilms 10.11.2020 09:28

Re: Swiss Pension( Vested Benefits )
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by LuganoPirate (Post 3237247)
You are fully entitled to take a cash payout (pension 2 and 3) when you leave Switzerland. They cannot compel you to buy a house in the UK. I think they are misleading you.

Amazingly Switzerland has not made an social security agreement with South Africa, hence you could take the funds.

LuganoPirate 10.11.2020 17:32

Re: Swiss Pension( Vested Benefits )
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by fatmanfilms (Post 3237481)
Amazingly Switzerland has not made an social security agreement with South Africa, hence you could take the funds.


Interesting, thank you. But I guess things may change on January 1st regarding the UK?

justinallsop 26.11.2020 21:36

Re: Swiss Pension( Vested Benefits )
 
I think itís highly unlikely that UK residents will be able to pull Swiss pensions out as cash. There were existing agreements back in the 70s and 80s between the two countries.

Pachyderm 26.11.2020 23:01

Re: Swiss Pension( Vested Benefits )
 
At a very minimum, you may want to transfer from UBS (where I presume it's just sitting there earning 0.01% interest) to a company like VIAC where you can at least invest it in equities. I did this last month after apathetically ignoring the money at UBS for more than a year. Results so far have been excellent (about 8% up) though a) it's early days and b) I'm a bit reckless with investments. I like risk.

As for withdrawal, I was under the impression that if you were leaving CH top go to the UK you could take the pot in cash (having first moved it to Schwyz, or somewhere else where you'll pay v little tax). If that fails, you'll have to wait until whatever the earliest age is in CH for taking a pension. In the UK it's 55. Is it the same in CH? Not sure but easy enough to find out.

If it helps, I found the VIAC people very helpful when I was thinking of moving the fund to them. They answered a lot of general questions (in English) about tax and regulations. Why not give them a call?

As far as i know, it doesn't matter if you're working or not though in the UK, once you start taking money out of a pension pot or SIPP then you can't put money back into it. But for taking money out of a 'foreign' pot, I'd have thought that would be OK -- but do get some proper advice.

Quote:

Originally Posted by justinallsop (Post 3243474)
I think it’s highly unlikely that UK residents will be able to pull Swiss pensions out as cash. There were existing agreements back in the 70s and 80s between the two countries.

Not Pillar 1 of course, no, but different rules apply to Pillar 2 and 3 funds. There's been quite a lot of discussion on this forum if you search for it.

justinallsop 28.11.2020 11:56

Re: Swiss Pension( Vested Benefits )
 
Quote:

Not Pillar 1 of course, no, but different rules apply to Pillar 2 and 3 funds. There's been quite a lot of discussion on this forum if you search for it.
Iíve spoken with 4 different pensions people, and the embassy and a member of the DWP in the UK, and each one of them has effectively told me that it is highly unlikely that a non agreement situation for pillar 2 will exist for more than a month or two. There are existing agreements from previously, and they are expecting them to be resigned within a short period.
Iíve therefore given up hope of pulling mine out, unless it was to buy/massively improve a house, as the current EEU agreement states. If it turns out that a non agreement state is left in play longer, then that would be great for all Iím sure. In the end, thatís what i wanted to do too, but apparently not that simple.

HickvonFrick 28.11.2020 16:38

Re: Swiss Pension( Vested Benefits )
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by justinallsop (Post 3243957)
Iíve spoken with 4 different pensions people, and the embassy and a member of the DWP in the UK, and each one of them has effectively told me that it is highly unlikely that a non agreement situation for pillar 2 will exist for more than a month or two. There are existing agreements from previously, and they are expecting them to be resigned within a short period.
Iíve therefore given up hope of pulling mine out, unless it was to buy/massively improve a house, as the current EEU agreement states. If it turns out that a non agreement state is left in play longer, then that would be great for all Iím sure. In the end, thatís what i wanted to do too, but apparently not that simple.

Couldn't you act in that month or two?


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