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  #21  
Old 27.06.2011, 16:13
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Re: Is Switzerland an egalitarian society?

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here the scientific answer to the question:

http://www.geert-hofstede.com/hofste...tzerland.shtml

the power distance index is very low, so yes Switzerland is egalitarian
Clearly this fancy research - with lots of TLAs, so it must be good - doesn't tie up with most people's experience of CH.

It wouldn't be the first time that there's a mismatch with research and reality (defined as everyone saying "no" here)...
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  #22  
Old 27.06.2011, 16:17
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Re: Is Switzerland an egalitarian society?

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here the scientific answer to the question:

http://www.geert-hofstede.com/hofste...tzerland.shtml

the power distance index is very low, so yes Switzerland is egalitarian
But this makes one doubt the entire study:

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This high IDV index value indicates that the Swiss population has a more independent nature where the people tend to take care of themselves and their close family, but tend not to 'meddle' in the matters of others.
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  #23  
Old 27.06.2011, 16:29
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Re: Is Switzerland an egalitarian society?

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Clearly this fancy research - with lots of TLAs, so it must be good - doesn't tie up with most people's experience of CH.

It wouldn't be the first time that there's a mismatch with research and reality (defined as everyone saying "no" here)...
There is nothing wrong with Hofstede - it is the best model I have seen. But models by definition simplify things... and Switzerland is over average complex: three parts with fairly different cultures. So the index is in the end a wild mix which does not reflect the reality of any part of Switzerland.
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Old 28.06.2011, 17:06
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Re: Is Switzerland an egalitarian society?

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The English spell badly? A Metronome is that thing that looks like the ding-dongs hanging off a grandfather clock and it tick-tocks back and forth to the rythm you set it to.
(Rhythm....ssshhh....we mustn't let the rest of the world think that the English spell badly).
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There is nothing wrong with Hofstede - it is the best model I have seen. But models by definition simplify things... and Switzerland is over average complex: three parts with fairly different cultures. So the index is in the end a wild mix which does not reflect the reality of any part of Switzerland.
What definition is that exactly?

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Old 28.06.2011, 17:16
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Re: Is Switzerland an egalitarian society?

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I think it is pronounced Metro-Gnome-ic in Zurich.
You mean this?
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  #26  
Old 28.06.2011, 17:21
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Re: Is Switzerland an egalitarian society?

"This high IDV index value indicates that the Swiss population has a more independent nature where the people tend to take care of themselves and their close family, but tend not to 'meddle' in the matters of others."

haha, this is too funny.
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  #27  
Old 28.06.2011, 17:25
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Re: Is Switzerland an egalitarian society?

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"This high IDV index value indicates that the Swiss population has a more independent nature where the people tend to take care of themselves and their close family, but tend not to 'meddle' in the matters of others."

haha, this is too funny.
.......................................

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  #28  
Old 28.06.2011, 17:53
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Re: Is Switzerland an egalitarian society?

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here the scientific answer to the question:

http://www.geert-hofstede.com/hofste...tzerland.shtml

the power distance index is very low, so yes Switzerland is egalitarian
People here look at power distance and social equality, not economic (socialist) equality, quite a difference there! In that regard I would say yes, Switzerland is quite egalitarian, society is not divided in (distinguishable) social classes, hierarchies in companies are much flatter than in Germany for example and parliamentarians go to work (or whatever you want to call sleeping on a chair ignoring the political adversary) by tram (91% according to that recent article of car-unfriendly CH?).

Contrary to popular belief here on the forum we rarely meddle into other peoples private sphere and live our lives privately. Telling off ignorant foreigners is a different thing entirely.
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  #29  
Old 28.06.2011, 21:00
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Re: Is Switzerland an egalitarian society?

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People here look at power distance and social equality, not economic (socialist) equality, quite a difference there! In that regard I would say yes, Switzerland is quite egalitarian, society is not divided in (distinguishable) social classes, hierarchies in companies are much flatter than in Germany for example and parliamentarians go to work (or whatever you want to call sleeping on a chair ignoring the political adversary) by tram (91% according to that recent article of car-unfriendly CH?).

Contrary to popular belief here on the forum we rarely meddle into other peoples private sphere and live our lives privately. Telling off ignorant foreigners is a different thing entirely.
Would you say that Switzerland is, OVERALL, more similar to Nordic countries than to its neighbors (France, Germany, Austria, Italy)?
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  #30  
Old 28.06.2011, 22:06
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Re: Is Switzerland an egalitarian society?

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Would you say that Switzerland is, OVERALL, more similar to Nordic countries than to its neighbors (France, Germany, Austria, Italy)?
No. Not at all. That's the problem with the model - sometimes it simplifies too much.

Here, your neighbours don't know your name and don't care what you do as long as you live by the many rules. Because those rules are many, complex and not always logical do newcomers always get the impression that the neighbours watch you closely, but they actually don't. At all. Everyone does what they want (within said rules) and do not really care about others.

The way I got to know the Scandinavian societies was quite the opposite: You are tolerant but still interested in you neighbours. You can accept that they are different, but want to know who they are and what they do...

Both score similar in the model but are IMHO fundamentally different.
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  #31  
Old 28.06.2011, 22:17
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Re: Is Switzerland an egalitarian society?

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No. Not at all. That's the problem with the model - sometimes it simplifies too much.

Here, your neighbours don't know your name and don't care what you do as long as you live by the many rules. Because those rules are many, complex and not always logical do newcomers always get the impression that the neighbours watch you closely, but they actually don't. At all. Everyone does what they want (within said rules) and do not really care about others.

The way I got to know the Scandinavian societies was quite the opposite: You are tolerant but still interested in you neighbours. You can accept that they are different, but want to know who they are and what they do...

Both score similar in the model but are IMHO fundamentally different.
Well, the Nordics don't give a toss, really, about all these bloody rules that the Swiss seem to have or about their neighbours. All they really want to do is drink, screw, work, take holidays and spend the dark months brooding in peace. The only time they give a damn about the neighbours is if said neighbours appear to have more money then them. Someday I could write a book about the land of the midnight sun but, no, Swissland has no real comparison to the Nordics, particularly in the areas of Women's rights and anal retentiveness.
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  #32  
Old 28.06.2011, 22:27
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Re: Is Switzerland an egalitarian society?

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Would you say that Switzerland is, OVERALL, more similar to Nordic countries than to its neighbors (France, Germany, Austria, Italy)?
Neither.

Tom
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  #33  
Old 28.06.2011, 22:31
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Re: Is Switzerland an egalitarian society?

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Contrary to popular belief here on the forum we rarely meddle into other peoples private sphere and live our lives privately.
The thing is, "we" (the swiss or people who lived here long enough) know how and when to break "the rules" properly. That makes a huge difference.

IMHO in almost every society, you can break pretty much any rule (not laws) IF you do it the right way.

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The way I got to know the Scandinavian societies was quite the opposite: You are tolerant but still interested in you neighbours. You can accept that they are different, but want to know who they are and what they do...
Not in small town Sweden. Social control is very much in place there.

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(..) and anal retentiveness.
Somebody has to take up the US-American challenge
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  #34  
Old 28.06.2011, 22:35
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Re: Is Switzerland an egalitarian society?

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The thing is, "we" (the swiss or people who lived here long enough) know how and when to break "the rules" properly. That makes a huge difference.
When I moved to Ticino 21 years ago from ZH, I was given these words of wisdom:

North of the Alps, everything that is not specifically permitted, is forbidden.

South of the Alps, everthing that is not specifically forbidden, is permitted.

Tom
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  #35  
Old 28.06.2011, 22:44
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Re: Is Switzerland an egalitarian society?

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Not in small town Sweden. Social control is very much in place there.
Not in Appenzell either, but are we looking for exceptions or a rule?
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