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  #21  
Old 31.10.2011, 16:31
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Re: Swiss watches (obsolete technology?)

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You mean to tell me, that you're not feeling this timeless classic right here?

Because of its claimed use in terrorism, possession of a Casio watch, often a Casio F91W, was listed in Guantanamo Bay Combatant Status Review Tribunal reports and other government documents as a reason for these detainees' continued detention

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of..._Casio_watches

Stay away from Casio if you're brown
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  #22  
Old 31.10.2011, 16:42
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Re: Swiss watches (obsolete technology?)

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People buy mechanical watches for the same reason they buy uncomfortable sports cars or a $5000 turntable- they just like them .
rather, they THINK other people will like them...
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Old 31.10.2011, 16:45
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Re: Swiss watches (obsolete technology?)

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Stay away from Casio if you're brown
..soo, if you're brown flush it down?
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Old 31.10.2011, 16:59
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Re: Swiss watches (obsolete technology?)

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A typical mechanical watch has a frequency of 6 hertz; a quartz watch has a frequency of 32,768 hertz. The higher the frequency, the better the accuracy. An atomic clock uses a frequency of 9,192,631,770 hertz. Which is like one second in a gajillion years or something.
This sounds a bit like you are insinuating a proportional relation between frequency and accuracy. That is not the case. If it were technically possible to make a 6 hertz quarz small enough for a watch, it would still be way more accurate than a mechanical watch because, in a quartz watch with otherwise similar functions, there are far fewer moving parts that can affect the accuracy due to thermal and kinetic effects and suchlike.

The main reason an atomic clock is so much more precise is because it works in a practically perfectly sheltered and buffered environment. Of course, there are other reasons too, but the frequency used is just one aspect. If any kind of atom could be made oscillate at 6 hertz, it would still outdo a mechanical watch by light years, so to say.
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People buy mechanical watches for the same reason they buy uncomfortable sports cars or a $5000 turntable- they just like them .
Absolutely agree. My old Tissot quartz watch (CHF 185.00 in 1979) loses two seconds per year at the very most, which is incredibly accurate compared to the four seconds my mechanical Jaeger-LeCoultre Géographique gains every day, but having the latter is just something special. It's like storing your tableware in an antique hand-made cabinet instead of one made of particle board and veneer, let alone plastic laminate. I wouldn't have coughed up the money for the J-LC, though. I inherited it from my Dad.

And no, it's not to show off. Actually it's a pretty unspectacular thing.
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Old 31.10.2011, 17:44
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Re: Swiss watches (obsolete technology?)

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There is a strong symbiotic relationship between me and my mechanical watch. I rely on it for the time, and it relies on me to 'wind it up/do the funky chicken' to keep it going.
A gentleman never admits to that sort of activity in mixed company!

Oh wait, you said "funky chicken", not "choke the chicken". Although the latter works just as well, allegedly.
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Old 31.10.2011, 17:52
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Re: Swiss watches (obsolete technology?)

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This sounds a bit like you are insinuating a proportional relation between frequency and accuracy. That is not the case. If it were technically possible to make a 6 hertz quarz small enough for a watch, it would still be way more accurate than a mechanical watch because, in a quartz watch with otherwise similar functions, there are far fewer moving parts that can affect the accuracy due to thermal and kinetic effects and suchlike.

The main reason an atomic clock is so much more precise is because it works in a practically perfectly sheltered and buffered environment. Of course, there are other reasons too, but the frequency used is just one aspect. If any kind of atom could be made oscillate at 6 hertz, it would still outdo a mechanical watch by light years, so to say.

Absolutely agree. My old Tissot quartz watch (CHF 185.00 in 1979) loses two seconds per year at the very most, which is incredibly accurate compared to the four seconds my mechanical Jaeger-LeCoultre Géographique gains every day, but having the latter is just something special. It's like storing your tableware in an antique hand-made cabinet instead of one made of particle board and veneer, let alone plastic laminate. I wouldn't have coughed up the money for the J-LC, though. I inherited it from my Dad.

And no, it's not to show off. Actually it's a pretty unspectacular thing.
you can get a very precise clock using quartz. i once built my own clock timer using a quartz oscillator and a micro-controller - the main thing you also need to do is use temperature compensation since the oscillation speed changes with temperature. i guess a lot of the cheap quartz mechanisms don't control for temperature - but i heard of some high end movements which get within +/- 5 seconds drift over a year

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Old 31.10.2011, 17:55
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Re: Swiss watches (obsolete technology?)

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you can get a very precise clock using quartz. i once built my own clock timer and used a quartz oscillator and a micro-controller - the main thing you also need to do is use temperature compensation since the oscillation speed changes with temperature. i guess a lot of the cheap quartz mechanisms don't control for temperature - but i heard of some high end movements which get within +/- 5 seconds drift over a year
Dude....you just got yourself on a "no fly list".
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  #28  
Old 31.10.2011, 18:26
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Re: Swiss watches (obsolete technology?)

Obsolete tech or not I'll still wear one.
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  #29  
Old 31.10.2011, 19:15
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Re: Swiss watches (obsolete technology?)

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This sounds a bit like you are insinuating a proportional relation between frequency and accuracy. That is not the case. If it were technically possible to make a 6 hertz quarz small enough for a watch, it would still be way more accurate than a mechanical watch because, in a quartz watch with otherwise similar functions, there are far fewer moving parts that can affect the accuracy due to thermal and kinetic effects and suchlike.
As usual nothing gets past CG's steel trap (brain) .

There is a lot more to the equation than frequency alone. There are mechanical clocks beating at 1hz that can smoke the best quartz watches out there. It all boils down to the stability of the oscillator. Harrison had made wooden clocks that rival or beat the best clock made before or since, but these were no good on a boat due to the constant motion- thus was born out of his mind the marine chronometer.

On the wrist, the balance wheel is affected by not only gravity but also the motions of the wearer. Watch makers gradually stepped up the frequency of the balance from 5 hertz to 5.5hz, which made an improvement in stability of rate. Then to 6hz, then 8hz- which is what most of the workhorse ETA movements use. These little marvels, spit out of machines largely untouched by human hands, are capable of incredibly good rates. But again, it's not a simple matter of frequency. To get the higher frequency, the balance wheels were made smaller and lighter for a given movement size, which made them less susceptible to the shocks and motions of daily wear. That, coupled with a higher frequency, makes them so stable.

When the Accutron came out it used a tuning fork in place of a balance wheel, with a frequency of 360hz. The elimination of the finicky balance wheel/hairspring was a huge step toward stabilizing the rate of a timepiece.

But looking just at frequency- it's a numbers game. It's like playing the lottery. If you buy a million tickets there's a better chance you'll win than if you buy 100 . If a watch beating at 5hz has 100 oscillations per day that are disturbed in some way that's 20 seconds that could be adversely affected. A watch running 8hz would only have 12.5 seconds adversely affected by the same influence. And so on with a tuning fork or quartz crystal- though those oscillators have further advantages like being practically unaffected by gravity and high stability through temperature change (entire books have been written on the subject of temperature change and timekeeping, and at least one Nobel Prize given to one of the most innovative metallurgists working on the problem, Charles Guillaume).
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  #30  
Old 31.10.2011, 19:24
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Re: Swiss watches (obsolete technology?)

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I use mine to get out of hairy situations, unzip ladies dresses etc. Can't do that with an iPhone, yet.

There's an app for that.
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  #31  
Old 31.10.2011, 19:27
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Re: Swiss watches (obsolete technology?)

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you can get a very precise clock using quartz. i once built my own clock timer using a quartz oscillator and a micro-controller - the main thing you also need to do is use temperature compensation since the oscillation speed changes with temperature. i guess a lot of the cheap quartz mechanisms don't control for temperature - but i heard of some high end movements which get within +/- 5 seconds drift over a year
Didn't I just mention my more than 30 years old quartz watch has < 2seconds drift over a year? And that for less than 200 CHF.

As for DIY digital quartz clocks -- I built my first one in 1973, with nixie tube display and 74xx ICs. It still works, gaining about 25 seconds per year, without temperature compensation, mind you. And the system for setting the alarm time is much smarter than anything I've seen ever since. I should have applied for a patent.
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  #32  
Old 31.10.2011, 20:57
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Re: Swiss watches (obsolete technology?)

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50 pesos to whoever can guess which one MC prefers:



Cowgirl vs. IWC, a red strap and screen print vs. the pinnacle of Swiss watchmaking from the '60s.



What's the brand of the one on the right- just can't make it out. I have one of my mum's old watch exactly the same but Fleurier Watch co.
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Old 31.10.2011, 21:09
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Re: Swiss watches (obsolete technology?)

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do high end watches need to be accurate, or is it really just about image and the brand now? after all, mechanical movements must surely be obsolete in the age of radio-synchronised time and GPS satellites?

i don't have a watch and just use my mobile phone. it synchronises to GPS times ever few hours and allows my to catch trains showing up on the platform 20 seconds before the departure time (when the trains are not late). there's no way i would try to do that with a mechanical/quartz watch.
Like any piece of equipment, it just needs to be accurate enough for what you are using it for. Will a mechanical watch allow you to make it to that business meeting, coffee date or train platform? Yes (maybe I would leave more than a 20 sec margin of error for a mech. watch! ). How many of us are using watches to synchronize launch codes anyway?

My question is: will watches soon be obsolete? It is a one trick pony in a multitrick gadget world. We are surrounded by time telling devices--why do we need another strapped to our wrists? I think we should look to the kids and how they interact with watches/technology to see where this is going.
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Old 31.10.2011, 21:17
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Re: Swiss watches (obsolete technology?)

Talking of watches, what does the EF think of Edox?

Nice, classical look with medium-range prices IMO.
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Old 31.10.2011, 22:15
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Re: Swiss watches (obsolete technology?)

To set up a production line of movements would cost in the reigeon of 50,000,000 which is why ETA is so successful, economies of scale. Many companies modify the basic movement, ETA used to sell parts only to order however now they only sell complete movements.

Mechanical watches are thought to be special, many are bought by collectors & never worn. It's like owning lots of sports cars or buying a Bugatti Veyron, people do because they can.
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Old 31.10.2011, 22:20
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Re: Swiss watches (obsolete technology?)

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do high end watches need to be accurate, or is it really just about image and the brand now? after all, mechanical movements must surely be obsolete in the age of radio-synchronised time and GPS satellites?

i don't have a watch and just use my mobile phone. it synchronises to GPS times ever few hours and allows my to catch trains showing up on the platform 20 seconds before the departure time (when the trains are not late). there's no way i would try to do that with a mechanical/quartz watch.
Wow. A quote of one of my posts used to start a whole new thread. I feel like I've arrived.

Yes, Phil, wristwatches are completely obsolete for most people. Mechanical watches doubly so.

I notice that many teens do not wear watches, presumably they get their time off their phone screen, boringly accurate as it is.

But curiously, cars didn't make horses go extinct and we still have pencils in an era of touchscreens. Having the time on your wrist is more convenient sometimes. Swimming or cycling, for example. (OK, I admit that bike computers also have clocks....)

Now, mechanical watches. Hmm. They aren't accurate by modern standards, but they are so freaking cool! There's this tiny machine on your wrist, defying the 2nd law of thermodynamics (so far as it knows, anyway) and tracking that most mysterious of quantities. Who could fail to be moved by that? (And they are more than accurate enough for most purposes, like knowing if it's time to drink yet.)
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Old 31.10.2011, 22:24
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Re: Swiss watches (obsolete technology?)

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I have a Junghans solar-powered wrist-watch that synchronizes to an ultra-precise cesium atomic clock. The signal is distributed via longwave radio.
(So I don't need a frigging power-hungry GPS receiver for it).

Not wearing a watch, though, is sort of relieving. But only if you don't carry a mobile phone either.
I have one of those Junghans on my desk. I never wear it anymore, but I do use it to set my other watches when the clocks change.

If you wear a watch but turn your phone off, you know what time it is, but no one calls you to make you do anything about it
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Old 31.10.2011, 23:54
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Re: Swiss watches (obsolete technology?)

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What's the brand of the one on the right- just can't make it out. I have one of my mum's old watch exactly the same but Fleurier Watch co.
International Watch Company. Beautiful movement.
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Old 31.10.2011, 23:56
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Re: Swiss watches (obsolete technology?)

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International Watch Company. Beautiful movement.
Want

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Old 31.10.2011, 23:58
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Re: Swiss watches (obsolete technology?)

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International Watch Company. Beautiful movement.
I am filming some of those the week after next.....Next week it's Rolex, last week was Omega!
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