Visited Manor in Geneva this lunchtime to buy a Mammut fleece as I wanted something to keep me warm. Heard a few people rave about them, Swiss brand name must be good!

Not much of a range and what there was at 150 CHF I have dish cloths that look warmer, maybe it was just the very limited range they had there or the made in 'China' that put me off I tried one on and it honestly did not feel warm.

Ended up buying a 'Columbia' top which felt nice and warm, better fitting and this being Switzerland was a bargain at 99 CHF. Most probably made in China as well.

Actually I do not care 2 CHF about the label, I just wanted something to keep me warm, pity I would have liked to have supported a Swiss brand.

Maybe the more expensive clothing they do for climbing the North face of the Eiger is better.

I'm sure it's good stuff, but there's always a premium on the price with brand names. If labels mean nothing to you, check out Landi. They cater to people who use the stuff they buy and expect it to work; they aren't a full outdoor gear shop but more of a farm/garden center where the pros shop. The one in Nyon has a decent range of sporty jackets and stuff at the moment.

Around Geneva

Landi‎
Route de Compois 14
1252 Meinier

Nyon

LANDI Eysins,
Le Nipy,
1262 Eysins

K-Tipps tested Fleeces on sale in Switzerland in a recent issue.

Both Mammut and Columbia fleeces scored top high marks in the tests.

The much cheaper fleeces scored low marks.

There are different fleeces for different activities and thickness of material plays a part here as does wind-proofing.

They're supposed to be very transparent regarding the production-environment of the clothes in China:

http://www.evb.ch/p17957.html

I have some (wearing a thin top right now that was fine for cycling back at 4c) which is all good, but I don't think it is especially "standout" from other ranges and brands. I do think you get what you pay for though

I have a fair bit of Mammut outdoor clothing, at retail prices I think it is expensive unless your are really planning some serious cold weather stuff. It does seem to last a bit longer but the performance is a step up from the normal stuff, plus I like the elefant on it. There are a few outlets around the place where you can be lucky and pickup some Mammut bargains.

It's not an elephant, it's a mammoth.
I like their shirts (not for myself - for my OH) because they do not need ironing and dry quickly.

I have quite a bit of both Mammut and Columbia stuff that I use for hiking, both seem to be equally good (and equally expensive).

The Mammut fleeces that you are probably referring to are excellent first layers in cold weather, but you need something windproof on top for any kind of outdoor use.

I recently bought one of their jackets (windproof outer layer with a removable fleece inside) in the sales, but it was still expensive. Currently using it to walk to work without the inner fleece layer and it's just right.

I was surprised at the lack of choice for Mammut at Manor compared with some of the other ranges, none were that huge being honest. I think there was a choice of two fleeces and one jacket in the mens section.

There are more shops about that stock Mammut in Geneva maybe the more sports/outdoor ones will stock a better range.

I noticed here in Basel there is an actual Mamut store, is there not one in Geneva (I'm thinking the selection would be better)?

Also, I don't know how it stacks up but there is Jack Wolfskin which seems to be outdoor wear here too, maybe worth checking out?

I have a fleece from Land's End which I got when I was back in the US (two years ago ) which has held up quite well and is nicely warm. I mention this because the Jack Wolfskin stuff seems at least as good as the Land's End.

__________________
The Joys of Opticianry

i had a jacket that needed to be sent back to Mammut for repair/inpection as the goretex was falling apart and the jacket had lots of small wooden splinters in the material, and had some badly deigned features that only came apparent during use- this was a jacket that was just under 1000chf BTW.

the customer service from mammut was disgusting, the woman i dealt with at the HQ agreed to replace the jacket for another model, then nothing. Turns out she left then Mammut denied all knowledge and refused to replace the jacket despite a written agreement

A sharp letter to the CEO resulted in a replacement jacket, and a reluctant apology from customer services.

Would I buy mammut again - never.

Have a good look at the quality and its quite poor, outer shell jackets with tiny zips - its not designed to last at all.

Mammut were very good now its a case of living on the old reputation.

lots of cheaper better equiped brands out there

Just correcting myself... it's not Columbia stuff that I have, it's Patagonia. Right continent, wrong end...

Ochsner Sport has a good range of Mammut stuff (at least the one in Neuchâtel does). Otherwise, you could try Passe-Montagne in Lausanne, they are outdoor specialists and have a big range and lots of different brands.

Mammut makes an OK fleece, but it isn't worth the price, IMO (and E).

The Mammut fleece I had didn't offer the wind protection that my $30-50 jackets from Landsend or LLBean do. I tend to stick with those two stores for casual outdoor clothing.

But then, I'm not a mountain climber. Maybe someone who needs techincal clothing might appreciate whatever it is that Mammut offers, but for walking dogs and weekend hiking I can't see paying those prices.

For more 'professional' outdoors clothing and gear I buy from REI and Erehwon in the US. Again, better prices - and often better quality, too.


The only outdoors stuff I buy in Switzerland comes from Landi. Their clothing may not be fashionable, but it is certainly functional. Landi is true Swiss quality.

(Just bought a pair of winter wellies, fleece-lined with a more robust sole than usual wellies have: CHF 19.99. I can work outside all day without frozen feet - something I've not found in any other boots, even ones in the 300+ price range.)

Rob1's post about service is good to keep in mind. Like melloncollie when I do buy new heavy clothes it's usually from U.S. 'catalog' shops.

Two examples-

L.L. Bean. Received a coat as a gift, it really wasn't my style, time went by, wore it a few times. L.L. Bean has a no questions asked returns policy, forever. Out of curiosity I called them and told them I had a coat that just never suited me, but it was now 2 years old. The dude said "send it back!". I asked if I get on some kind of blacklist for being a d!ckhead customer, "no sir, full refund". Amazing.

Filson. Bought a light moleskin jacket that doubles as a liner for heavier coats. 3 years later decided to spring for an oilcloth coat that mated with it. Called to confirm that they were indeed a match, apparently they had changed the zipper somewhere in there and they weren't sure if it would work. Just said send it and we'll see. Now- I happened to mention that if they didn't match, I would get another liner, this time wool.

Package comes- they threw in the wool liner for FREE. The liner is $170 on its own. That's service!

Check to see if the Mammut article is approved (tested) by EMPA.
If so, yes it really is that good.

General thoughts to consider when preparing to buy technical clothing:

Is it for genuine outdoor use, or to look good around town? Or to draw a comparison, would you buy a time trial bike in the sports section of a department store?

If the latter, shop at Manor or other large retail store. Expect to get lovely colours, fluffy fabrics that feel great when they are new, and expect to pay through the nostrils. Also expect to be cold if you actually go outside the city.

If the former, go to a specialist outdoor store. The labels there will be ones that you have not seen people wearing around town. Expect to get dull colours, fabrics that feel less fluffy but will hold up to use and washing without changing. And expect to pay through both nostrils.

It helps if you expend a little time in advance learning about outdoor clothing technology and fabrics, so that one knows how the major fabrics are classified.

Alternatively, just wear a wool shirt and wool sweater and a wool coat. You'll be warm. Really warm.

And just FYI: the standard issue outer garments used by the British Antarctic Survey are made of pure cotton

Thanks for all the replies, some useful tips there.

I already have some amazing sports clothing which most I have bought on the internet as I have found it hard to buy here. The progress in sports clothing is amazing, I found myself out on the bike when it was minus ten, was warm as toast and it felt a bit like watching BBC HD except for my puffing. Ditto for some of the running gear it is just nothing like 3 or 4 decades ago when we just had pretty classic but basic clothing and shoes.

My original mission was a fleece as a mid layer, currently very few clothes fit me and I am trying to buy just a few until January when I am going to have to replace most of my day to day wardrobe plus suits etc, so we have a trip to the UK sales planned.

This week I was doing a presentation, had what was a smart suit on but had to agree, I look like a scarecrow in it, similar to the fleece/jacket I have it used to be warm but now it is like a tent. Even my pyjamas are too big, losing weight is great on the one hand but expensive on the clothing front.

Anyway for the moment I am okay but it is good to know some of the stores people recommend, which I plan to go visit.

Darn, just tried my Ski suit on and I think my whole family can fit in that now :-(

I will say from the beginning that I have never worn or bought any of the Mammut gear, and thats mainly because it just doesn't seem that great to me from outward appearance vs price.

I'm a bit of a tech curious sort of person, always heavily researching my gear and applying strict criteria to what I buy, cos I really want my hard earned to keep on giving after its been handed over the counter. Yes, it is a Swiss brand and therefore perhpas not well known out of this area, but I very rarely come across the Mammut name in gear reviews or forums. And the other major factor is the price, it really is quite high for some of the items, and I just don't like forking out for something that I'm not sure will work. ie taking a punt on something because of the name rather than based on research. I'm quite happy to pay for quality, just want to shorten the odds on getting that quality.

Like meloncollie I buy some of my gear from the States or at specialist shops. My other rule of thumb is that if I see it regularly on the high street then I don't bother buying it, because a company that is getting sufficient sales with the city folk is unlikely to be putting much effort into R&D and focusing on back country use. Yes I mean North Face

There is a climbing/hiking shop in Carouge called Cactus which has reasonable range of stuff, and specialist brands like Rab or Outdoor Research, that you won't find at Ochsner or Manor