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  #21  
Old 31.12.2011, 00:50
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Re: education in switzerland

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we don't hear of any swiss coming up with new ideas or inventions??
Huh?? Switzerland has one of the highest numbers of patents per capita IIRC.
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  #22  
Old 31.12.2011, 00:55
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Re: education in switzerland

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can you please name a few?
People like Einstein, Hans Küng, Jean Ziegler, ... just naming a few.
besides this Switzerland has the best science university of the non-english speaking world.
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  #23  
Old 31.12.2011, 00:56
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Re: education in switzerland

There is a fundamental cultural difference between Swiss and anglo-american school systems:
CH: Basics is own national language + maths + second national language
UK/US: Basis is English + maths + science

In a CH/DE environment, science is not just science. It's on one hand engineering (a huge thing here) and on the other side research science. Gymnasium is not the foreseen path for the first, it is for the second. To an anglo-american, it doesn't make sense. To a German/Swiss, it does. It means that science in early years is used as discovery tool, as basic universal cognitive development, and the cognitive abstract skills must be in place before getting into experimental sciences and making science a subject of its own to the full. That seems very late for anglo-americans.

There is a similar cultural difference between Romands and French: In France, the golden trio is French-maths-history (that's a lot of essay writing compared to northern Europeans). To a Swiss Romand, it doesn't make sense either.

It's fun to talk about this kind of things among teachers, because the cultural background is incredibly strong and powerful, but we can exchange on an equal basis because we share the experience of teaching and we've all made our little experiences.
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  #24  
Old 31.12.2011, 00:58
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Re: education in switzerland

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olygirl. i know. i'm a kv stundent from Luzern with the certificate and doing BM II but trust me it'll only take you to a ''Fachhochschule'' and not a ''University'' if you know the difference between the 2 of them.
Then I assume that in the UK 50% of the students go to Oxford or Camebrige?
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Old 31.12.2011, 01:05
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Re: education in switzerland

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olygirl. i know. i'm a kv stundent from Luzern with the certificate and doing BM II but trust me it'll only take you to a ''Fachhochschule'' and not a ''University'' if you know the difference between the 2 of them.
Yes, but you could do the "Passarelle" exam and attend a university or in some cases you can get a bachelor's degree from a Fachhochschule (university of applied sciences) and do you your master studies at a university.

Even if you don't have the BM you can do a "Zweitwegmatura" to get into a university or the ETH.
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Old 31.12.2011, 01:06
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Re: education in switzerland

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can you please name a few?
well here are a few: mathematicians Bernoulli and Euler, architect Le Corbusier, founder of Red Cross Henri Dunant, the Piccards
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  #27  
Old 31.12.2011, 01:12
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Re: education in switzerland

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can you please name a few?
http://www.myscience.ch/de/research/...iss_scientists

Are these enough?
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  #28  
Old 31.12.2011, 01:21
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Re: education in switzerland

these were great men and women indeed and they've surely contributed to mankind. but what about the pioneers of the future like Mark Zuckerberg, Steve Jobs, Sergey Brin, Steve Chen, Chad Hurley, etc... when they have a high ranking university like ETH??
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  #29  
Old 31.12.2011, 01:25
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Re: education in switzerland

I imagine Real, that you have been brain washed into believing a good degree is the beginning to an effortless career path. A degree in ancient Greek used to be considered as an excellent qualification for the British civil service, but times have thankfully changed and today a good degree needs to be related to your intended career path. I am of the opinion that "lesser" degrees in the arts are not very useful unless you wish to teach these subjects.

Now the Swiss system has one failing: they are using rote teaching to get the information across to the students. Many Swiss children have very little imagination and in my opinion are poor problem solvers. This is also reflected later in life, where Swiss managers approaching unknown situations hold countless meetings to try and find an accord with their heads of department. Swiss managers do not appear to lead, but they are good at managing for a consensus. Hence failures here take sometimes years before a correction can be achieved.

The positive side to Swiss education is the possibility to start learning a modern trade at the age of 15, and earning some decent pocket money. Teenagers here seem to be very happy, they feel wanted and useful, unlike the unhappy Anglo-Saxon teenagers whom become depressed from ages 15 to 18 because they are learning simply out dated theories. The Swiss employer associations control the Swiss further education. The Anglo-Saxon government education departments control the Anglo-Saxon technical and commercial schools.

An example of positive education / training here is the technical "sandwich courses" at technical schools. Here they are learning some modern technologies which are very useful when applying for junior positions in Swiss industries.

I believe the classical Anglo-Saxon and French systems of pushing students to simply study for a degree in a subject they are interested in, and then to start learning, at age 22, a business or industry, is simply a waste of resources and frustrating for the students and employers alike. The result is obvious, young English speaking people being highly qualified in the wrong subjects, and unemployable without completing a company graduate training scheme.
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  #30  
Old 31.12.2011, 01:33
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Re: education in switzerland

Sbrinz, i don't believe i've been brainwashed into thinking one needs a degree to make it. actually the guys i mentioned before are mostly dropouts so i don't necessarily believe a degree is a guarantee to success.
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  #31  
Old 31.12.2011, 01:35
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Re: education in switzerland

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these were great men and women indeed and they've surely contributed to mankind. but what about the pioneers of the future like Mark Zuckerberg, Steve Jobs, Sergey Brin, Steve Chen, Chad Hurley, etc... when they have a high ranking university like ETH??
How about this guy:
Niklaus Wirth

He desined the programming languages Pascal, Modula and Oberon, which had a great influence on most languages used today. At least Pascal was used to a great extand at its time.
(Ada, the programming language designed by the US Ministry of Defense is actually mostly based on Pascal and Modula-2).

Then if we are taking about tech-companies, there of course is logitech. Not to forget the watch-making companies. Who made many inovations since the 70s.
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  #32  
Old 31.12.2011, 01:54
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Re: education in switzerland

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these were great men and women indeed and they've surely contributed to mankind. but what about the pioneers of the future like Mark Zuckerberg, Steve Jobs, Sergey Brin, Steve Chen, Chad Hurley, etc... when they have a high ranking university like ETH??
We should not forget, that after the second world, many european scientists went to America (in the case of many German scienist against there free will), as the Amercan Universities were left intact by the war and were well funded. Wheras the european infrastructure was destroied to a large extend. Further the US spent large amouns of money in the developement of new technologies in order to compete with the USSR. The Europen states did not have the funds to conduct research at this time. Thus all top scientists got consentrated in the US. This is actually the reason, why science is dominated by English. (It is interesting to know, that before WWII it was essential for any phisicist or psychologist to know German, as many relevant articles were published in that language.
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  #33  
Old 31.12.2011, 02:21
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Re: education in switzerland

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If you take the size of Switzerland into acount, then Switzerland has actually produeced a fair amount of great people. Further Swiss people have the "disadvantage" of not living in the English speaking world. Thus they are less likely to be known in the (English speaking) world, then say an American with equal merits.
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can you please name a few?
I'll name one, which I would not have heard of if I hadn't stumbled onto this forum and read Wolli's posts. Alfred Escher was the guy who muttered when Bern was made capital of Switzerland that he would make Zürich the de facto capital of Switzerland. He built a railway system through Switzerland (and across the Alps) that not only made Switzerland important to Europe, but Zürich very important to Switzerland.

Arguably, he was in every sense a great man, even if most Americans or British don't know who he is.

P.S. If Wolli was referring to another person other than Escher, please accept my apologies.
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  #34  
Old 31.12.2011, 02:38
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Re: education in switzerland

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can you please name a few?
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these were great men and women indeed and they've surely contributed to mankind. but what about the pioneers of the future like Mark Zuckerberg, Steve Jobs, Sergey Brin, Steve Chen, Chad Hurley, etc... when they have a high ranking university like ETH??
Since real is more impressed with the founders of the internet than actual scientists, I think he would appreciate Max Miedinger, the Swiss typeface designer who created the popular "Helvetica" font which is widely used on the internet.
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  #35  
Old 31.12.2011, 03:12
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Re: education in switzerland

If you are interested in the history of computer science in Switzerland this could be interesting (unfortunately it is in German and Swiss German):

http://www.videoportal.sf.tv/video?i...5-b3f8668f67ad The relevant part starts around 1:30.

Basically the story is, that ETH did quite some computer research. ETH computers were used in NASA projects for example. At the beginning of the 80s ETH constructed a Personal Computer which was five years ahead of Apple (it was constructed by the before mentioned Nicolas Wirth). The Problem was that the Swiss industry did not have any interests of entering into the computer business. The universities themselves didn't even think of commercial applications of their developments (there was not much of a spin-off culture in Europe in these days).
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  #36  
Old 31.12.2011, 06:10
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Re: education in switzerland

Here is the wikipedia page for the computer developped by ETH in 1980.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lilith_(computer)
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  #37  
Old 02.01.2012, 09:57
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Re: education in switzerland

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i agree very much with sliced. like he says the children are classified too early into the 3 main groups (first class - Kantonschule, second class - Sekundarschule, low class - Realschule) and that puts them under so much pressure to decide.
Only in the German-speaking part (and maybe the French-speaking as well, I have no experience with those), but not here.

Tom
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