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  #61  
Old 13.06.2012, 13:20
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Re: Pirated Software usage

Spot on I hate all this I'm underprivileged and from a poor country rubbish, that doesn't stop you from learning and there are tools available to do that. India churns out IT personnel constantly and very few of them have privileged backgrounds.
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  #62  
Old 13.06.2012, 13:34
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Re: Pirated Software usage

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Spot on I hate all this I'm underprivileged and from a poor country rubbish, that doesn't stop you from learning and there are tools available to do that. India churns out IT personnel constantly and very few of them have privileged backgrounds.
Just ask them if they had always paid for their software :-).

And why is this suddenly all about IT? Of course there is a place for Linux and everything else in this world. It so just happens that most offices don't need you to master the command line or iptables, but expect you can put together a spreadsheat or a nicely formated letter in MS Office.

Proffesional design software, just to use household names like Solidworks, 3D Studio (but of course there are thousands of specialized tools used in different industry segments) cost a lot of money because:

1. they cost a lot of time and money to develop
2. they have support
3. they are designed to facilitate making business

We can disagree on that, but in my opinion Opensource will never conquer the world.
I know how to work with Linux, I know how to work with GIMP, I know how to work with Open Office. I'd choose Windows, Photoshop and MS Office any day (and pay for it), because they make my life easier.
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  #63  
Old 13.06.2012, 13:35
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Re: Pirated Software usage

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The system is flawed. In my opinion, software for eductational purposes should be free for all, and this is the only way to guarantee a fair start for everybody.
It's a shame that contract law doesn't agree with your opinion.

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In the end, software manufacturers make money on commercial licenses and educating more people to use THEIR software can only bring profits.
While you have every right to believe that, you do not have a right to tell people how they charge for their product and services, and how they attempt to generate profit. Your decision-making ability ends with the choice to use or not use the software.

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Spot on I hate all this I'm underprivileged and from a poor country rubbish, that doesn't stop you from learning and there are tools available to do that. India churns out IT personnel constantly and very few of them have privileged backgrounds.
And now we're full circle back to the OP about everybody there stealing their software.

Why should people in poor countries be able to steal software just because they're poor? They have a significant competitive advantage in terms of manufacturing cost efficiency, for example, that 1st world often cannot match.

You use what assets you have and make the most of them. Look at it this way, Glinaa - if I were to take you aside and force you to teach me something without compensation, because "I'm just trying to learn that skill so I can be competitive", would it be right? All I've taken from you is your time....

... which is exactly what you've taken from the developers if you pirate software.
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  #64  
Old 13.06.2012, 14:29
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Re: Pirated Software usage

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We can disagree on that, but in my opinion Opensource will never conquer the world.
I know how to work with Linux, I know how to work with GIMP, I know how to work with Open Office. I'd choose Windows, Photoshop and MS Office any day (and pay for it), because they make my life easier.
If a lot more users in so called "underprivileged" countries were using Opensource instead of pirated commercial software it would make a great impact. First, for the community as more bugs will be found, features requested, tutorials written, and after all a much wider user base. Second, for the users themselves as they get interested and involved in software development. Pirating software does only marginally hurt the enterprises, as most of the potential costumers do not have the money to buy the product, but it hurts foremost the Opensource community as their viable alternatives are not used as widely as they could.

In a nutshell: Pirating kills Opensource.
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  #65  
Old 13.06.2012, 14:29
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Re: Pirated Software usage

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Why should people in poor countries be able to steal software just because they're poor? They have a significant competitive advantage in terms of manufacturing cost efficiency, for example, that 1st world often cannot match.

You use what assets you have and make the most of them. Look at it this way, Glinaa - if I were to take you aside and force you to teach me something without compensation, because "I'm just trying to learn that skill so I can be competitive", would it be right? All I've taken from you is your time....

... which is exactly what you've taken from the developers if you pirate software.
You know very well it's not how this works, especially in poor countries. Developers cannot lose profit which they couldn't otherwise have as the people are not able to afford the software.

What the developers do gain, however, is market share which is incredibly precious. Heavy crackdown on piracy would mean lost market share (probably to open source projects), and even less profits in long term. The mechanics of this are well known, and this is why mostly commercial used is chased and outlawed, but private use is in the grey.

This brings us to a point where despite everybody shouting out how bad it all is, some are actually calculating future profits. Wouldn't it be better to adjust the rules instead of playing dumb? Do you really think Microsoft would like 1 billion Chinese to be using Linux?
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  #66  
Old 13.06.2012, 14:47
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Re: Pirated Software usage

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You know very well it's not how this works, especially in poor countries. Developers cannot lose profit which they couldn't otherwise have as the people are not able to afford the software.

What the developers do gain, however, is market share which is incredibly precious. Heavy crackdown on piracy would mean lost market share (probably to open source projects), and even less profits in long term. The mechanics of this are well known, and this is why mostly commercial used is chased and outlawed, but private use is in the grey.

This brings us to a point where despite everybody shouting out how bad it all is, some are actually calculating future profits. Wouldn't it be better to adjust the rules instead of playing dumb? Do you really think Microsoft would like 1 billion Chinese to be using Linux?
Right, because big software developers have never thought about future profits, nor have they considered tiered pricing schemes for to balance the cost to what the market will bear in various countries... Or perhaps some have?

You're obviously brilliantly skilled in new business methods; you should start your own software company, give the stuff away to students, and make lots of money. Put your money where your mouth is, rather than telling other people how they ought to do business.

Private use is not grey; there's simply a cost-benefit ratio to chasing down a single user of stolen software, and the return isn't likely to justify the cost involved.
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  #67  
Old 13.06.2012, 14:51
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Re: Pirated Software usage

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Hi,

I'm hoping to visit Switzerland for my internship.
In my country all most all the people are using pirated copies of windows, office and etc. So I'm wondering whether it is similar in Switzerland as well. Will I end up in jail if i bring my laptop as it is

P.S. I'll be staying in Lausanne.

Linux: It's free (gratis et libre) and it super-duper!
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  #68  
Old 13.06.2012, 15:08
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Re: Pirated Software usage

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Right, because big software developers have never thought about future profits, nor have they considered tiered pricing schemes for to balance the cost to what the market will bear in various countries... Or perhaps some have?
Admirable, and too bad they waited 20 years for this.

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You're obviously brilliantly skilled in new business methods; you should start your own software company, give the stuff away to students, and make lots of money. Put your money where your mouth is, rather than telling other people how they ought to do business.
I expressed an opinion. I'd say this is quite far from telling anyone how to do business.

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Private use is not grey; there's simply a cost-benefit ratio to chasing down a single user of stolen software, and the return isn't likely to justify the cost involved.
Sure it's not grey, but in my opionion it's not all about the cost of chasing down the offenders. Eradicating them could have even worse results for long term profits.

This is an interesting read:
http://apcmag.com/thanks_for_letting_us_pirate.htm

I can also share some first hand experience from Poland. Twenty years ago there was no software but pirated software. Well, one could buy genuine, but prices were so outrageous that even businesses could not afford it. Gradually the situation changed and nowadays a lot of people buy their games and programs or use open source. This is not because people were chased down and penalized. Economy advanced, people advanced and some things just come natural.
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  #69  
Old 13.06.2012, 15:35
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Re: Pirated Software usage

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Admirable, and too bad they waited 20 years for this.

Probably because there weren't that many computers at home in some of these markets 20 years ago.

Can you justify any other criminal acts with your weird moral stance?

Just wondering?
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  #70  
Old 13.06.2012, 15:42
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Re: Pirated Software usage

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....
There is an alternative open source to everything-
Windows? Linux
Office? Open office
Outlook? Thunderbird
Matlab? Octave, Scilab, etc..

...
I have been using Octave for some time with the QtOctave frontend, as an alternative to Matlab, DESPITE the fact that I do have a legal copy of Matlab (through the university I'm working in). The trend now in the academia (the big names in US mainly, MIT, Stanfrod, Caltech, etc...) is to gradually move to opensource software and publishing results in free of charge journals. Ther reason: Wider spreading of the knowledge to the community / faster exchange of ideas / wider community interaction.
I had no clue about SciLab, but it seems rather excellent as well. Concernig the toolboxes: Sometimes reinventing the wheel yields better desings
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  #71  
Old 13.06.2012, 15:47
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Re: Pirated Software usage

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Probably because there weren't that many computers at home in some of these markets 20 years ago.
There were millions of computers in poorer countries, even if a generation or two behind the ones in the "west".

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Can you justify any other criminal acts with your weird moral stance?
Just wondering?
No. And please do not pull the "would you steal a car if you needed one" argument.
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  #72  
Old 13.06.2012, 15:50
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Re: Pirated Software usage

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Probably because there weren't that many computers at home in some of these markets 20 years ago.

Can you justify any other criminal acts with your weird moral stance?

Just wondering?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance



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No. And please do not pull the "would you steal a car if you needed one" argument.
Well? Would you?
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  #73  
Old 13.06.2012, 15:50
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Re: Pirated Software usage

If I can get this back on track, whilst avoiding the 'groan' barrages on both sides...

Personally, I've found that a lot of software these days is very reasonably priced for what you get. Some of my best utlities are even completely free.

It's now perfectly possible to build a windows box suitable for office use, where the software is now only a fraction of the total cost; 10-15 years ago, it was easily half the cost or more! I've used pirate software in the long and distant past, but these days, I find I can easily buy all the legit software I need (and that's not due to my salary increase!). Build a LINUX box, and it gets cheaper still (though some more tech knowledge is required).

Yes, companies are looking for "MS office" skills these days, but even that gets really cheap to obtain if you used something like office365 to learn on. And even the "home" editions of full fat MS office are cheap these days - my last, fully legit version cost 99 from PC World. And often, your employing company can provide MS home-use licence deals where you can buy a full fat MS office version for as little as 16.

Even the master wallet gougers (Adobe) have twigged that CS is way too expense for mortal man, and now has some cut down - but still very powerful - versions of their most popular tools for cheap-as-chips.
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  #74  
Old 13.06.2012, 15:53
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Re: Pirated Software usage

Only if it was your car. I wouldn't touch an open-source one with a stick
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  #75  
Old 13.06.2012, 16:06
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Re: Pirated Software usage

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There were millions of computers in poorer countries, even if a generation or two behind the ones in the "west".
What OS would a computer two generations behind Windows 3.1 be running that was pirated?

They weren't running pirated copies of DOS as that was generally provided OEM.
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  #76  
Old 13.06.2012, 16:13
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Re: Pirated Software usage

I remember "jailbreaking" my first ever PC with DR-DOS around 25 years ago, as a replacement for IBM-DOS.
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  #77  
Old 13.06.2012, 16:25
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Re: Pirated Software usage

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What OS would a computer two generations behind Windows 3.1 be running that was pirated?

They weren't running pirated copies of DOS as that was generally provided OEM.
Time runs fast ... 20 years ago was 1992.

Intel pentium was introduced in 1993. Windows 3.x could run on 286 (introduced 1982).
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Old 13.06.2012, 17:58
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Re: Pirated Software usage

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I have been using Octave for some time with the QtOctave frontend, as an alternative to Matlab, DESPITE the fact that I do have a legal copy of Matlab (through the university I'm working in). The trend now in the academia (the big names in US mainly, MIT, Stanfrod, Caltech, etc...) is to gradually move to opensource software and publishing results in free of charge journals. Ther reason: Wider spreading of the knowledge to the community / faster exchange of ideas / wider community interaction.
I had no clue about SciLab, but it seems rather excellent as well. Concernig the toolboxes: Sometimes reinventing the wheel yields better desings
I like Matlab lots, but would love to go open-source with it. Closed source is just another modern poison, a bit like museum admission fees and private art collections.
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Old 13.06.2012, 18:02
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Re: Pirated Software usage

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.... churns out IT personnel constantly and very few of them have privileged backgrounds.
A significant number of these people have faked experience on their CVs, work on pirated software, and use stolen training material. To the detriment of their honest countrymen. Just check out any professional software forum. (I work as a moderator on one and deal with this all the time).

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...Closed source is just another modern poison, a bit like museum admission fees and private art collections.
That's why I don't like Apple much.
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  #80  
Old 13.06.2012, 18:07
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Re: Pirated Software usage

I would have to agree I've seen them trawl many a forum and LI group for info on the most basic of software testing questions. My point still exists though that just because you're supposedly underprivileged or from a 3rd world country will not stop you learning and hopefully getting into a good career and this can be done without stealing
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