Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Help & tips > Other/general  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #41  
Old 30.11.2012, 15:53
Textoch's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Texas, USA (formerly Vaud, CH)
Posts: 1,201
Groaned at 25 Times in 23 Posts
Thanked 3,058 Times in 937 Posts
Textoch has a reputation beyond reputeTextoch has a reputation beyond reputeTextoch has a reputation beyond reputeTextoch has a reputation beyond reputeTextoch has a reputation beyond reputeTextoch has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Judge Reputation

Quote:
View Post
You are completely missing the point.
If your point is that people/organizations who own property that is not in use should be willing to allow squatters to live in said property, I am not missing it. I simply disagree with you.
Reply With Quote
The following 7 users would like to thank Textoch for this useful post:
  #42  
Old 30.11.2012, 16:14
aSwissInTheUS's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Zurich area
Posts: 12,778
Groaned at 99 Times in 88 Posts
Thanked 19,576 Times in 8,681 Posts
aSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Judge Reputation

Quote:
View Post
Maybe rehousing them!!??
The can go to the public welfare where they will get housing. But maybe it is not what they want. See below.
Quote:
View Post
Many people in Swizterland and worldwide have no way of paying exorbitantly high rents which are only getting higher!
Many people cannot pay the rent for the place they really want to live. They could easily find housing at other places but they are not as hip and en vogue as the hip and trendy in places. But if they were real hippster and trend-setters instead of sheepish followers they would either already live in the trendy places and paying low rent or they would define the new trendy places, the ones where the rent is affordable.

Quote:
View Post
Plus the system here prevents immigrants whose diplomas are invalid to the Swiss scholastic system as well as Swiss people themselves who for whatever reason couldn't or didn't go through the 3-4 year diploma program
There is always the Passarelle and Zweiter Bildungsweg. There is not really a couldn't just a did not yet.
Quote:
View Post
from getting work which would make it even possible to pay these high rents!
Sorry, but not everypone can get lake access, 5 bedrooms and all the lukury for free.
Quote:
View Post
Another worldwide phenomenon is the stigmatization and criminalization of people who wish to form alternative societies; collectives, communes, political movements are all being targeted and often labeled as terrorism or gang activity.
Not really a phenomena, it has always been the case. Some succeed, some have problems with there next door neighbors, some only get halfway there, some completely fail, some others even twice.
Quote:
View Post
With so many empty spaces, and I don't mean the home of someone who's gone on vacation for a week and come back to find squatters, but unused and unusable property which is left empty for years or permanently with no plans of occupation, criminalizing those who wish to use those spaces to positive ends (collective living spaces) is simply wrong.
Should do an EF event. "Lets drive the unused Verkehrshaus cars" would be fun. Just because someone else is not using it does not mean you can use it freely. Or can I sleep in your bed and try on your cloths while you are away from home? Yup I am male
Quote:
View Post
Also, 45 days from now there will be freezing temperatures and high snowdrifts- are you suggesting that those squatters should go commit another crime in order to be jailed long enough for the ice to melt, making it safe to sleep on the sidewalk and embarrass the more well-off???!! Do you really think that was their PLAN??
Most likely those squaters will hit the slopes and warm-up with a Jaggertee or Glühwein in the Skihütte.
__________________
On Hiatus- Normal operation will resume 22.02.2022 22:02:20.22
Reply With Quote
The following 5 users would like to thank aSwissInTheUS for this useful post:
  #43  
Old 30.11.2012, 16:27
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Judge Reputation

Again what's the groan for?
They broke the law and got punished for it.

do you need a hug?

Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank for this useful post:
This user groans at for this post:
  #44  
Old 30.11.2012, 16:38
Jobsrobertsharpii's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Z-U-R-I-C-H
Posts: 2,335
Groaned at 173 Times in 124 Posts
Thanked 3,384 Times in 1,536 Posts
Jobsrobertsharpii has a reputation beyond reputeJobsrobertsharpii has a reputation beyond reputeJobsrobertsharpii has a reputation beyond reputeJobsrobertsharpii has a reputation beyond reputeJobsrobertsharpii has a reputation beyond reputeJobsrobertsharpii has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Judge Reputation

Quote:
View Post
Again what's the groan for?
They broke the law and got punished for it.

do you need a hug?

What she needed was her parents to explain to her that life isn't fair, and complaining about it doesn't help. The whole whine sounds like an idealistic teenager...
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Jobsrobertsharpii for this useful post:
  #45  
Old 30.11.2012, 16:49
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: bern
Posts: 40
Groaned at 22 Times in 14 Posts
Thanked 31 Times in 20 Posts
veronicah has become a little unpopular
Re: Judge Reputation

Quote:
View Post
What's the groan for?
They broke the law and got what they deserved.
In the UK they break the law, they get moved on and do the same to the next door neighbours house.
Maybe if the judges in the UK gave out decent sentences then morons would think twice about breaking the law.
The law is exactly what I've been questioning! The law in this case was changed so that property has more rights than people, reminiscent of the recently legal "personhood" of corporations in the USA. The law can be a many-headed beast- for example in Bern you can be arrested for being in a group of 3 or more people anywhere in the city. Would you suggest another alternative please to breaking the law to get a roof over your head when you're poor and yes homeless? And before you mention the Salvation Army shelters, there is a 2-week maximum stay there and in the Zurich winters an average of 50 people are turned away nightly.
Squatting is actually legal in many cantons. It is highly regulated, and squatters here do a lot of research before occupying a space, such as making sure the space is unusable to the titleholder, unused for at least a year, and that permission and a contract with the owner is a possibility. The spaces are almost always used as cultural centers and neighborhood gathering places as well as providing a home.
This is not the UK, I mean honestly how many CCTV cameras have you noticed on the streets? And wouldn't the squatter *problem" there possibly be linked to the higher-than-here levels of unemployment, poverty, crime ah and perhaps that tenacious old class system?
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank veronicah for this useful post:
This user groans at veronicah for this post:
  #46  
Old 30.11.2012, 16:54
3Wishes's Avatar
Moderately Amused
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Bern area
Posts: 11,350
Groaned at 90 Times in 86 Posts
Thanked 19,665 Times in 8,701 Posts
3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Judge Reputation

Quote:
View Post
prison for a harmless misdemeanor in which no one was hurt?
This is the key point, I think. In your eyes, it was a "harmless" thing. In the eyes of the property owner, it was costly and illegal. Apparently the judge agreed. I think 45 days is rather a lot if the people only occupied the home for a week (sorry, didn't read the article as I don't read French). In my mind, provided they were first offenders, a more appropriate sentence would be same number of days in jail as they were in the house.

In these cases, one can argue no one was physically hurt so it's a "victimless crime." Unfortunately it sounds like property was damaged - so the victim is the owner of the property, who has to pay for repairs.

Edit to respond to veronicah's post: The property doesn't have more rights than the squatters. The property owner has rights, and the fact he owns the property automatically grants him more rights to said property than a group of homeless people. Seems reasonable to me.

Last edited by 3Wishes; 30.11.2012 at 16:58. Reason: added response
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank 3Wishes for this useful post:
  #47  
Old 30.11.2012, 16:57
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Judge Reputation

Quote:
View Post
The law is exactly what I've been questioning! The law in this case was changed so that property has more rights than people, reminiscent of the recently legal "personhood" of corporations in the USA. The law can be a many-headed beast- for example in Bern you can be arrested for being in a group of 3 or more people anywhere in the city. Would you suggest another alternative please to breaking the law to get a roof over your head when you're poor and yes homeless? And before you mention the Salvation Army shelters, there is a 2-week maximum stay there and in the Zurich winters an average of 50 people are turned away nightly.
Squatting is actually legal in many cantons. It is highly regulated, and squatters here do a lot of research before occupying a space, such as making sure the space is unusable to the titleholder, unused for at least a year, and that permission and a contract with the owner is a possibility. The spaces are almost always used as cultural centers and neighborhood gathering places as well as providing a home.
This is not the UK, I mean honestly how many CCTV cameras have you noticed on the streets? And wouldn't the squatter *problem" there possibly be linked to the higher-than-here levels of unemployment, poverty, crime ah and perhaps that tenacious old class system?
Quote:
The law in this case was changed so that property has more rights than people
No, it protects the owners of the property and quite rightly so.

It maybe legal in other cantons (which personally I think is crazy) so fair play to the squatters but in the canton where they were jailed it is illegal hence, they got what they deserved.
Reply With Quote
The following 6 users would like to thank for this useful post:
  #48  
Old 30.11.2012, 16:58
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Judge Reputation

Quote:
View Post
This is the key point, I think. In your eyes, it was a "harmless" thing. In the eyes of the property owner, it was costly and illegal. Apparently the judge agreed. I think 45 days is rather a lot if the people only occupied the home for a week (sorry, didn't read the article as I don't read French). In my mind, provided they were first offenders, a more appropriate sentence would be same number of days in jail as they were in the house.

In these cases, one can argue no one was physically hurt so it's a "victimless crime." Unfortunately it sounds like property was damaged - so the victim is the owner of the property, who has to pay for repairs.
As the saying goes, no crime is victimless, that's why its a crime.
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank for this useful post:
  #49  
Old 30.11.2012, 17:14
Phil_MCR's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Basel
Posts: 14,750
Groaned at 284 Times in 189 Posts
Thanked 18,639 Times in 7,827 Posts
Phil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Judge Reputation

Quote:
View Post
So if y'all were the judge, what would be your verdict for these squatters?
death penalty:

- solves their homelessness problem
- positive results on re-offending stats
- deterrent for future criminals
- cost effective (a bit of rope, vs prison system)
- bonus: annoys the bleeding heart liberals
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank Phil_MCR for this useful post:
This user groans at Phil_MCR for this post:
  #50  
Old 30.11.2012, 18:26
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: bern
Posts: 40
Groaned at 22 Times in 14 Posts
Thanked 31 Times in 20 Posts
veronicah has become a little unpopular
Re: Judge Reputation

The can go to the public welfare where they will get housing. But maybe it is not what they want. See below..[/QUOTE]

Welfare, contrary to popular belief, does NOT provide housing with the exception of for those with serious physical or mental illnesses or handicaps, and that's a completely different gov. organization. If one is in possession of a rent contract they will pay the rent, but if not they do not provide help locating one, provide a guarantee or supply housing AT ALL.
.
Many people cannot pay the rent for the place they really want to live. They could easily find housing at other places but they are not as hip and en vogue as the hip and trendy in places. But if they were real hippster and trend-setters instead of sheepish followers they would either already live in the trendy places and paying low rent or they would define the new trendy places, the ones where the rent is affordable.
.[/QUOTE]

Hip and in vogue? Trendsetters?? What on earth can that possibly mean or have to do with anything?!? Do you mean moneyed? Popular? I've met people who are in their 40's to 70's (which to be fair are not often ages at which one is "hip" or *in vogue*) who wound up squatting, in towns they want to move away from, after looking for affordable apartments for in 1 case 5 years. And are still looking. These people don't care about hip or trendy, they just want a roof over their heads, is that what you define as a sheepish follower? The exact point of things like squatting is to NOT FOLLOW.
Affordable is completely relative to one's income. Housing is a basic human need and right.

There is always the Passarelle and Zweiter Bildungsweg. There is not really a couldn't just a did not yet.
.[/QUOTE]

And with a low-paying job, insurance, rent etc. how do they support themselves while re-educating?


Sorry, but not everypone can get lake access, 5 bedrooms and all the lukury for free.
.[/QUOTE]

See above.


Not really a phenomena, it has always been the case.
Some succeed, some have problems with there next door neighbors, some only get halfway there, some completely fail, some others even twice.
.[/QUOTE]
Perhaps I should've said growing phenomenon. http://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MOVE Plus there are those who haven't been completely criminalized yet- http://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupy_movement but soon will be. By the way, didn't your 1st & 2nd some start out as squatters before completely taking over? Worrisome. And yes, throughout history there have always been people ready to fight and lose their liberty and lives for what they believe in, which is why there are squatters/activists/dissidents in the first place.

Should do an EF event. "Lets drive the unused Verkehrshaus cars" would be fun. Just because someone else is not using it does not mean you can use it freely. Or can I sleep in your bed and try on your cloths while you are away from home? Yup I am male

.[/QUOTE]
I would have no problem with that if I knew you were genuinely compelled towards cross-dressing but felt oppressed in your home situation!!
I disagree; if something is going to waste it should be used by those who need it.

Most likely those squaters will hit the slopes and warm-up with a Jaggertee or Glühwein in the Skihütte.
[/QUOTE]

Don't know many of them who could afford that! Yes there are a few who are art students etc. but the most are marginal, hungry, and cold. Some are sans-papiers, some born here but not integrated financially or otherwise into Swiss society, some work, some don't, some have just no other reasonable alternative. All are willing to band together to create something beautiful from somebody else's garbage!!
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank veronicah for this useful post:
  #51  
Old 30.11.2012, 18:31
Jobsrobertsharpii's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Z-U-R-I-C-H
Posts: 2,335
Groaned at 173 Times in 124 Posts
Thanked 3,384 Times in 1,536 Posts
Jobsrobertsharpii has a reputation beyond reputeJobsrobertsharpii has a reputation beyond reputeJobsrobertsharpii has a reputation beyond reputeJobsrobertsharpii has a reputation beyond reputeJobsrobertsharpii has a reputation beyond reputeJobsrobertsharpii has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Judge Reputation

Quote:
View Post
The law is exactly what I've been questioning!
No, you're whining.


Quote:
View Post
The law in this case was changed so that property has more rights than people, reminiscent of the recently legal "personhood" of corporations in the USA.
Again no. As others have explained, it is the property owners who have the rights. And personhood of corporations isn't a recent thing, either... Nor is it an entirely bad thing, like you seem to be implying.

Quote:
View Post
The law can be a many-headed beast- for example in Bern you can be arrested for being in a group of 3 or more people anywhere in the city.
Yes it can. For example, it is illegal in Atlanta for a car to drive in the city limits without a police escort. I imagine both laws are equally strictly enforced. I am sure we could both find more examples of silly laws that aren't truly enforced. So I don't know where you are going with this? Can you cite the actual law and an instance where 3 people were arrested simply for being together and not for potentially violating another law?

Quote:
View Post
Would you suggest another alternative please to breaking the law to get a roof over your head when you're poor and yes homeless?
I suggested several. Apparently you're ignoring them.

Quote:
View Post
And before you mention the Salvation Army shelters, there is a 2-week maximum stay there and in the Zurich winters an average of 50 people are turned away nightly.
Salvation Army is ONE example. I am sure that these 50 individuals can find shelter through other, similar programs, such as state-sponsored shelters, churches, and the like. Also, regarding the limited duration of the stay: the whole premise of social welfare is to help the most needy become self-supporting again, so it is entirely legitimate to limit how long someone should stay. If there were no limits, there would be some that abuse this system, forcing more than the 50 you mention before to look elsewhere.

Quote:
View Post
Squatting is actually legal in many cantons.
It probably shouldn't be, but that is up to the respective governments of those cantons to decide.

Quote:
View Post
It is highly regulated, and squatters here do a lot of research before occupying a space...
Why aren't they using that time and those resources used for "research" to find the means to compensate the property owner, or to become property owners themselves? This sounds to me like they are making bad choices about the use of their resources and expecting society to pay for it.

Quote:
View Post
...such as making sure the space is unusable to the titleholder, unused for at least a year...
Again, this doesn't matter. They don't own the property, ergo they don't have the right to determine if it is unusable or otherwise; the duration is simply irrelevant. I could leave a property vacant for many years, while I save for renovations, or wait for an increase in property values to sell; none of this means I want squatters on my property.

Quote:
View Post
and that permission and a contract with the owner is a possibility.
Independent of the price, this is leasing a property and not squatting, so I don't see what this has to do with your argument.

Quote:
View Post
The spaces are almost always used as cultural centers and neighborhood gathering places as well as providing a home.
It doesn't matter what the property is used for, if it is against the wishes of the property owner or owners. Stealing the use of a property for what you believe to be "noble purposes," does not change the fact that you stole the use of a property.

Quote:
View Post
This is not the UK, I mean honestly how many CCTV cameras have you noticed on the streets?
Totally lost here. I can't even comment on this, because it makes absolutely no sense in your argument.


Quote:
View Post
And wouldn't the squatter *problem" there possibly be linked to the higher-than-here levels of unemployment, poverty, crime ah and perhaps that tenacious old class system?
Ahh, yes- Class warfare. Bring that old dog out for another whipping, eh? Class warfare is a construct that was created to represent (and demagogue) unemployment problems and poverty, not to explain how they actually happen.

So, your argument boils down to, "Why can't I and others like me have what we want without paying for it?" Gimme a break.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Jobsrobertsharpii for this useful post:
  #52  
Old 30.11.2012, 18:35
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: bern
Posts: 40
Groaned at 22 Times in 14 Posts
Thanked 31 Times in 20 Posts
veronicah has become a little unpopular
Re: Judge Reputation

Idealistic, yes, absolutely! Whining is apparently reserved for those who hire lawyers to charge people for crimes like unstopping toilets and recycling otherwise unusable materials such as houses which are to be demolished. And groan away!!
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank veronicah for this useful post:
This user groans at veronicah for this post:
  #53  
Old 30.11.2012, 18:37
Jobsrobertsharpii's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Z-U-R-I-C-H
Posts: 2,335
Groaned at 173 Times in 124 Posts
Thanked 3,384 Times in 1,536 Posts
Jobsrobertsharpii has a reputation beyond reputeJobsrobertsharpii has a reputation beyond reputeJobsrobertsharpii has a reputation beyond reputeJobsrobertsharpii has a reputation beyond reputeJobsrobertsharpii has a reputation beyond reputeJobsrobertsharpii has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Judge Reputation

Quote:
View Post
Idealistic, yes, absolutely! Whining is apparently reserved for those who hire lawyers to charge people for crimes like unstopping toilets and recycling otherwise unusable materials such as houses which are to be demolished. And groan away!!
Idealistic, and unrealistic. Why don't I go to the Hauptbahnhof and give a bunch of those folks your address? I doubt you'd be quite so "idealistic" then. So, as long as others are paying the cost for this, its ok...
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Jobsrobertsharpii for this useful post:
  #54  
Old 30.11.2012, 18:38
amogles's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 12,361
Groaned at 340 Times in 276 Posts
Thanked 26,264 Times in 11,001 Posts
amogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Judge Reputation

Quote:
View Post
Wow I can't believe it never went in front of a judge. Why is it that some cases go before a judge and some don't?
It's not the job of the police to prosecute. They are there to keep the peace. For a civil prosecution to take place there has to be a person making a formal complaint.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank amogles for this useful post:
  #55  
Old 30.11.2012, 18:44
amogles's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 12,361
Groaned at 340 Times in 276 Posts
Thanked 26,264 Times in 11,001 Posts
amogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Judge Reputation

Quote:
View Post
Maybe rehousing them!!?? Many people in Swizterland and worldwide have no way of paying exorbitantly high rents which are only getting higher! Plus the system here prevents immigrants whose diplomas are invalid to the Swiss scholastic system as well as Swiss people themselves who for whatever reason couldn't or didn't go through the 3-4 year diploma program from getting work which would make it even possible to pay these high rents! Another worldwide phenomenon is the stigmatization and criminalization of people who wish to form alternative societies; collectives, communes, political movements are all being targeted and often labeled as terrorism or gang activity. With so many empty spaces, and I don't mean the home of someone who's gone on vacation for a week and come back to find squatters, but unused and unusable property which is left empty for years or permanently with no plans of occupation, criminalizing those who wish to use those spaces to positive ends (collective living spaces) is simply wrong. Also, 45 days from now there will be freezing temperatures and high snowdrifts- are you suggesting that those squatters should go commit another crime in order to be jailed long enough for the ice to melt, making it safe to sleep on the sidewalk and embarrass the more well-off???!! Do you really think that was their PLAN??
I'm sure nobody objects if they buy the property or seek the owner's permission. But just because somebody appears to be not using it, that's no reason to break in and trash it. Or why should some people have to pay high rents for their property or purchase it at market value, while others can be free to go in and use it for free just because they have a feeling of entitlement and a hate for those who are more succesful than them. Isn't that also creating a two-tier society, something they are supposedly otherwise against.
Reply With Quote
The following 6 users would like to thank amogles for this useful post:
  #56  
Old 30.11.2012, 18:50
Jobsrobertsharpii's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Z-U-R-I-C-H
Posts: 2,335
Groaned at 173 Times in 124 Posts
Thanked 3,384 Times in 1,536 Posts
Jobsrobertsharpii has a reputation beyond reputeJobsrobertsharpii has a reputation beyond reputeJobsrobertsharpii has a reputation beyond reputeJobsrobertsharpii has a reputation beyond reputeJobsrobertsharpii has a reputation beyond reputeJobsrobertsharpii has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Judge Reputation

Quote:
View Post
The can go to the public welfare where they will get housing. But maybe it is not what they want. See below..


Welfare, contrary to popular belief, does NOT provide housing with the exception of for those with serious physical or mental illnesses or handicaps, and that's a completely different gov. organization. If one is in possession of a rent contract they will pay the rent, but if not they do not provide help locating one, provide a guarantee or supply housing AT ALL.
.
Many people cannot pay the rent for the place they really want to live. They could easily find housing at other places but they are not as hip and en vogue as the hip and trendy in places. But if they were real hippster and trend-setters instead of sheepish followers they would either already live in the trendy places and paying low rent or they would define the new trendy places, the ones where the rent is affordable.
.[/QUOTE]

Hip and in vogue? Trendsetters?? What on earth can that possibly mean or have to do with anything?!? Do you mean moneyed? Popular? I've met people who are in their 40's to 70's (which to be fair are not often ages at which one is "hip" or *in vogue*) who wound up squatting, in towns they want to move away from, after looking for affordable apartments for in 1 case 5 years. And are still looking. These people don't care about hip or trendy, they just want a roof over their heads, is that what you define as a sheepish follower? The exact point of things like squatting is to NOT FOLLOW.
Affordable is completely relative to one's income. Housing is a basic human need and right.

There is always the Passarelle and Zweiter Bildungsweg. There is not really a couldn't just a did not yet.
.[/QUOTE]

And with a low-paying job, insurance, rent etc. how do they support themselves while re-educating?


Sorry, but not everypone can get lake access, 5 bedrooms and all the lukury for free.
.[/QUOTE]

See above.


Not really a phenomena, it has always been the case.
Some succeed, some have problems with there next door neighbors, some only get halfway there, some completely fail, some others even twice.
.[/QUOTE]
Perhaps I should've said growing phenomenon. http://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MOVE Plus there are those who haven't been completely criminalized yet- http://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupy_movement but soon will be. By the way, didn't your 1st & 2nd some start out as squatters before completely taking over? Worrisome. And yes, throughout history there have always been people ready to fight and lose their liberty and lives for what they believe in, which is why there are squatters/activists/dissidents in the first place.

Should do an EF event. "Lets drive the unused Verkehrshaus cars" would be fun. Just because someone else is not using it does not mean you can use it freely. Or can I sleep in your bed and try on your cloths while you are away from home? Yup I am male

.[/QUOTE]
I would have no problem with that if I knew you were genuinely compelled towards cross-dressing but felt oppressed in your home situation!!
I disagree; if something is going to waste it should be used by those who need it.

Most likely those squaters will hit the slopes and warm-up with a Jaggertee or Glühwein in the Skihütte.
[/QUOTE]

Don't know many of them who could afford that! Yes there are a few who are art students etc. but the most are marginal, hungry, and cold. Some are sans-papiers, some born here but not integrated financially or otherwise into Swiss society, some work, some don't, some have just no other reasonable alternative. All are willing to band together to create something beautiful from somebody else's garbage!!
[/QUOTE]

I can't tell what's your thoughts, and what you're quoting, so I don't even know how to respond to this...
Reply With Quote
  #57  
Old 30.11.2012, 18:56
carcharhinus's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Greater Zürich Area
Posts: 484
Groaned at 5 Times in 4 Posts
Thanked 226 Times in 141 Posts
carcharhinus is considered knowledgeablecarcharhinus is considered knowledgeablecarcharhinus is considered knowledgeable
Re: Judge Reputation

Quote:
View Post
There are homeless people in Suisse?
Homeless by choice, the Swiss welfare state of course provides a home for every inhabitant of Switzerland.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank carcharhinus for this useful post:
  #58  
Old 30.11.2012, 18:59
carcharhinus's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Greater Zürich Area
Posts: 484
Groaned at 5 Times in 4 Posts
Thanked 226 Times in 141 Posts
carcharhinus is considered knowledgeablecarcharhinus is considered knowledgeablecarcharhinus is considered knowledgeable
Re: Judge Reputation

Quote:
View Post
As I'm completely unfamiliar with the justice system here, I'd like to know if anyone knows what judges are like in Switzerland. I read about a judge who gave some people 45 days in prison because they squatted in a deserted house that was up for sale for several days or so. Do the majority of Swiss judges make such harsh verdicts?
Do you have a neutral source?

Harsh verdicts are very uncommon in Switzerland. The 45 days in prison were most likely on probation if the convicts had no criminal history …
Reply With Quote
  #59  
Old 30.11.2012, 19:04
amogles's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 12,361
Groaned at 340 Times in 276 Posts
Thanked 26,264 Times in 11,001 Posts
amogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Judge Reputation

Quote:
View Post
Don't know many of them who could afford that! Yes there are a few who are art students etc. but the most are marginal, hungry, and cold. Some are sans-papiers, some born here but not integrated financially or otherwise into Swiss society, some work, some don't, some have just no other reasonable alternative. All are willing to band together to create something beautiful from somebody else's garbage!!
Switzerland is a modern society and there are institutions that take care of all those in need. Yes, it is humbling to go to a soup kitchen or sleep in a shelter. But they are there and the climb up the ladder starts with the first step. There are even programs for the long-term unemployed to get them some working experience. The work isn't much fun and they pay isn't that generous either. But you clock up some working experience on your CV and that can help you step up to the next better thing.

If a building is really empty in the long term, the owner is (logically) not making any income out of it. So surely if he was approached in a civil way he might accept some moderate rent from people wishing to do something with the building in the interim on the premise that they don't trash it any further (at least if it was my building I'd be open to considering such a proposal). But if you automatically assume that because the person owns a building, that the person must be rich and evil and therefore deserves to take some damage, and does not deserve to be consulted, then that is a judgemental and thuggish attitude.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank amogles for this useful post:
  #60  
Old 30.11.2012, 19:22
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Evian
Posts: 172
Groaned at 3 Times in 3 Posts
Thanked 238 Times in 106 Posts
Lemanglaise has earned the respect of manyLemanglaise has earned the respect of manyLemanglaise has earned the respect of many
Re: Judge Reputation

Blimey, you're a hard crowd.

I totally agree, arty-farty 'let's do the slumming' thing crashers - or even genuinely poor people - who damage property, leave it in a bad condition etc - then sure, they should be punished.

But genuinely poor and homeless who broke into a place which was waiting to be demolished and improved it (as I gather from the posts) ... you're still for stringing them up (ok, jail time)?

Wow.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Lemanglaise for this useful post:
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Javelin judge killed at meet in Dusseldorf Medea Fleecestealer Sports / Fitness / Beauty / Wellness 3 27.08.2012 17:22
A career as a lawyer, judge ... Sada General off-topic 6 06.06.2011 17:47
Tea and biscuits with judge nonswiss Family matters/health 0 24.09.2009 00:09


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 22:09.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0