Gun Community

[st2lemans]

This just in:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-21379912

Tom

[Medea Fleecestealer]

	Quote:	st2lemans
	This just in: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-21379912 Tom

Excellent article and one that should be sent to the NRA, Congress and the White House. Hopefully the NRA are literate enough to read it and stop spreading lies about Switzerland and its guns.

[Odyssey]

	Quote:	Megsandbacon
	How about ranges in the Zug area?

For the following URLs, you can use Google Translation (http://translate.google.com).

Recommendation:
http://www.tsbirmensdorf.ch
Manuel (instructor and proprietor) is English-speaking. He also does the orientation session for first-time users. Pistols/Revolvers or rifles in pistol or revolver calibers only. You have to become a member and pay an annual membership fee.

Under "Vereine" is a listing of all the clubs in Canton Zug.
http://www.zugerksv.ch/index.html

Swiss Shooting URL:
http://www.fst-ssv.ch/desktopdefault.aspx/tabid-85/

Specifically for Zurich:
http://www.bsvz.ch/archiv.htm

Great Shooting Facility:
http://www.bruenigindoor.ch/index.php?langId=2 ("English" link)

There is the annual "Feldschiessen" for general competition (more info: http://www.fst-ssv.ch/desktopdefault...144_read-5120/). Anybody is welcome to compete (as long as you're not from a country on the banned list), and they also loan you a gun if you don't have your own.

Banned List:
Türkei, Kosovo, Albanien, Algerien, Sri Lanka, Kroatien, Mazedonien, Montenegro, Bosnien and Herzegowina, Serbien.

-Odyssey

[team_1911]

	Quote:	Medea Fleecestealer
	Excellent article and one that should be sent to the NRA, Congress and the White House. Hopefully the NRA are literate enough to read it and stop spreading lies about Switzerland and its guns.

Interesting though, that this article got a few incorrect facts:
1. The Survey estimates, with 3.4 million guns among its population of nearly eight million - the problem is that there are types of guns which still are not registered or do not need a Weapons Acquisition Permit. Hunting rifles and double barreled shotguns. It is said that there are far more guns in this country. Even up to 4.6 Mio.
2. But hunters and sportsmen are greatly outnumbered by those keeping army guns - which again illustrates the difference between Switzerland and the US. According to the Swiss Military there are around 650,000 army weapons out there. What about the remaining 2,8 Mio guns? They are owned by sportsmen, collectors and hunters
3. Heavy machine guns and automatic weapons are banned, as are silencers - They are certainly not. You can possess a automatic gun or a silencer. Only a special permit is required which is not very difficult to obtain
4. We don't have a gun culture - We do! Several big gun shows, growing numbers of firearm owners, ...
5. And all ammunition bought at the club has to be used there. - A lot of sportsmen take their own ammo to the club range and if ammo is bought there, who controls it how many shots have been fired? I know a lot of clubs who have huge problems with that and they can't keep track of the ammo used at their range...

[Tom1234]

	Quote:	team_1911
	A lot of sportsmen take their own ammo to the club range and if ammo is bought there, who controls it how many shots have been fired? I know a lot of clubs who have huge problems with that and they can't keep track of the ammo used at their range...

Gun club officials have difficulty with simple counting skills....

[MrsSerendipity]

	Quote:	Desert Rat
	Wow, do you know how to make an entrance or what? I'd say in terms of the controversy and divided opinions this will raise, this first posts ranks right up there with "where can I find a hooker?" Welcome to the forum. p.s. got any AR's or a Glock 23?

Dont think finding a hooker would devide people as much as gun ownership lol.

[Mud]

	Quote:	Tom1234
	Gun club officials have difficulty with simple counting skills....

I haven't been to a range here, but I imagine the spent casings still eject from the firearm (unless it's a revolver or single shot rifle) as they are designed to do, and end up on the floor, among the casings from surrounding guns. Keeping track of and counting what has been fired must be difficult, unless the range is close to empty. When I read that they count the ammo my first thought was,"how on Earth do they do that?".

[team_1911]

	Quote:	Mud
	I haven't been to a range here, but I imagine the spent casings still eject from the firearm (unless it's a revolver or single shot rifle) as they are designed to do, and end up on the floor, among the casings from surrounding guns. Keeping track of and counting what has been fired must be difficult, unless the range is close to empty. When I read that they count the ammo my first thought was,"how on Earth do they do that?".

At my local gun club they stopped counting. I can, if i want to be a bada**, take some ammo home. But for what use?

[Jobsrobertsharpii]

	Quote:	Tom1234
	Gun club officials have difficulty with simple counting skills....

If you actually spent some time at a range, you'd realize how silly your statement sounds...

[Tom1234]

	Quote:	Jobsrobertsharpii
	If you actually spent some time at a range, you'd realize how silly your statement sounds...

I know all about ranges. I used to be a member of a gun club.

[Jobsrobertsharpii]

	Quote:	Tom1234
	I know all about ranges. I used to be a member of a gun club.

Awesome. That's like saying you have a gym membership. Did you actually go and, if so, how did you count your used cartridges?

[Tom1234]

	Quote:	Jobsrobertsharpii
	Awesome. How did you count your used cartridges?

No, I didn't need to. I think I took them home with me which didn't matter as I didn't own my own gun.

But that was a long time ago. The gun club was full of long-time members who all seemed to be pyscho-weirdo types that you wouldn't like to meet on a dark night.

Still, it was good to go (for a short while), to get some personal perspective on gun clubs and their members so I can be a fully-paid up member of this thread.

[Jobsrobertsharpii]

	Quote:	Tom1234
	No, I didn't need to. I think I took them home with me which didn't matter as I didn't own my own gun. But that was a long time ago. The gun club was full of long-time members who all seemed to be pyscho-weirdo types that you wouldn't like to meet on a dark night. Still, it was good to go (for a short while), to get some personal perspective on gun clubs and their members so I can be a fully-paid up member of this thread.

But, what was being discussed was how difficult it is to ensure all ammo purchased (and in a shooter's possession) has been shot. If 4 people are all shooting 9mm, short of shell-catchers and ballistics tests, there's not really any way to identify to whom the casings belong, and therefore to determine if all the ammo was used on the property or some taken home.

Given this, its not "difficulty with simple counting skills" as you describe it. It is difficulty coming up with a practical system for identification of spent shells. Very different. But, hey, when we're demagoguing guns, what does a little truth mean?

[Tom1234]

	Quote:	Jobsrobertsharpii
	But, what was being discussed was how difficult it is to ensure all ammo purchased (and in a shooter's possession) has been shot. If 4 people are all shooting 9mm, short of shell-catchers and ballistics tests, there's not really any way to identify to whom the casings belong, and therefore to determine if all the ammo was used on the property or some taken home. Given this, its not "difficulty with simple counting skills" as you describe it. It is difficulty coming up with a practical system for identification of spent shells. Very different. But, hey, when we're demagoguing guns, what does a little truth mean?

The easiest thing to do is to keep the guns locked up at the club. Then, it doesn't really matter who takes ammo home.

[Megsandbacon]

Let's not let this degrade into another one of THESE threads...

[Jobsrobertsharpii]

	Quote:	Tom1234
	The easiest thing to do is to keep the guns locked up at the club. Then, it doesn't really matter who takes ammo home.

That's assuming they haven't obtained a gun somewhere else (like another club or even...gasp...illegally).

	Quote:	Megsandbacon
	Let's not let this degrade into another one of THESE threads...

You know, I was really glad that this thread hadn't done so, and I'm really trying not to let it. It's nice to have a discussion about a hobby/sport without somebody freaking out because there's a gun involved...

[team_1911]

	Quote:	Tom1234
	The easiest thing to do is to keep the guns locked up at the club. Then, it doesn't really matter who takes ammo home.

Stricter gun laws would prevent shooting sprees and crimes? Please tell me more about how criminals follow laws...

But let us keep this thread focused on the gun hobby/ sport. If you got a problem with gun ownership, please start a new thread/ post in an old thread regarding this matter.

[Tom1234]

	Quote:	team_1911
	But let us keep this thread focused on the gun hobby/ sport. If you got a problem with gun ownership, please start a new thread/ post in an old thread regarding this matter.

Yes, sorry. I'll let you carry on.

	Quote:	team_1911
	It is not entirely true what they write. Gun purchasing in Switzerland is still very easy! I own automatic guns (100% legal!) which are according to the article banned in Switzerland...

According to the article they are going to change this by 2020. If I am correct.

[team_1911]

	Quote:
	According to the article they are going to change this by 2020. If I am correct.

They won't change the gun laws in Switzerland!