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  #41  
Old 07.12.2016, 23:00
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Re: Legal advice for buying 2nd hand furniture

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Hi All,

Thanks for multiple advises and opinions.
Currently, I am working for a mutual agreement as i see as the best option after reading your comments as any other option will be more time consuming,stressful and finally financially will cost more.

I will update in the forum in a few days once negotiation done or otherwise.

Thanks again!!!!

Regards,
Pawan
Who are you working with "a mutual agreement" with?
What happened to the furniture?

As far a I see it, the guy threw the stuff away. Did you take the furniture from where he dumped it?
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  #42  
Old 03.01.2017, 16:34
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Re: Legal advice for buying 2nd hand furniture

Hi All,

Just wanted to update on progress,

The negotiation failed as he is now asking me to pay for the moving company as well.

I have told him that ready to face legal system and please take furniture from my flat if you find a buyer/otherwise.

Pawan
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  #43  
Old 03.01.2017, 17:38
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Re: Legal advice for buying 2nd hand furniture

Lets put it this way. If he made it a condition that you only get the flat if you take the furniture then he has no rights at all. And if not then you made a legal agreement to take the furniture. If so its up to you to pay him and all other costs involved.So where is the furniture now ? In your flat?

Your posts are really vague

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Hi All,

Just wanted to update on progress,

The negotiation failed as he is now asking me to pay for the moving company as well.

I have told him that ready to face legal system and please take furniture from my flat if you find a buyer/otherwise.

Pawan
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  #44  
Old 03.01.2017, 17:52
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Re: Legal advice for buying 2nd hand furniture

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And if not then you made a legal agreement to take the furniture.
Not 100% obvious that it's binding here. The OP actually wanted a "buy furniture if I get the flat" type of contract (which is unenforceable as we know), not just a "buy furniture" even if that's he wrote in his emails, so he might be able to invoke Art. 24 OR to get out of it.

I agree about vagueness. It would be nice to know exactly what was exchanged in writing.
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  #45  
Old 03.01.2017, 18:27
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Re: Legal advice for buying 2nd hand furniture

So you are saying he could have gotten the flat without taking the furniture. I doubt it very much.If he liked the furniture and really wanted them for himself ( regardless of getting the flat or not ) it would be different.In this case I would say he is obliged to take them and pay. But I doubt it was like this.
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The point is, you were not forced to take the furniture. You agreed to take it and in writing.
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  #46  
Old 03.01.2017, 18:28
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Re: Legal advice for buying 2nd hand furniture

Obviously there are if and else (open questions) hence we are having the discussion, but I went to see the flat and agree to buy furniture with the flat. Let say, if furniture advertisement was alone on any site in that case I could not have gone to see the furniture first place.

It is obviously together, but the law can see the other way around. Any law should see motive if I wanted to buy furniture alone why I am not buying furniture now.



Is it worth to buy furniture without flat and move it? - my opinion, in this case No.



Can seller able to sale furniture to anyone else?

- my opinion , No - otherwise he can sale now as well
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  #47  
Old 03.01.2017, 18:50
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Re: Legal advice for buying 2nd hand furniture

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Obviously there are if and else (open questions) hence we are having the discussion, but I went to see the flat and agree to buy furniture with the flat. Let say, if furniture advertisement was alone on any site in that case I could not have gone to see the furniture first place.

It is obviously together, but the law can see the other way around. Any law should see motive if I wanted to buy furniture alone why I am not buying furniture now.



Is it worth to buy furniture without flat and move it? - my opinion, in this case No.



Can seller able to sale furniture to anyone else?

- my opinion , No - otherwise he can sale now as well
We understand why you agreed to buy the furniture and why you changed your mind, the only thing that matters here is what it appears you have agreed in writing (e-mail)...btw, did he clearly advertise the flat with the furniture or you just discussed? If you have no evidence on that then it's clearly a lost cause...pay the furniture and move on..or try to resell it yourself.
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  #48  
Old 03.01.2017, 18:56
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Re: Legal advice for buying 2nd hand furniture

But did you need the furniture or did you just take it because it was forced on you as a condition to getting the flat.I think you did not need the furniture otherwise you would have taken them after you got the second flat.Right.In this case simply forget the matter. He won't take you to court. He is bluffing because he knows if and when he loses it will be very expensive.Don't forget he is a tenant and not the owner of the flat. So his rights are much more limited
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Obviously there are if and else (open questions) hence we are having the discussion, but I went to see the flat and agree to buy furniture with the flat. Let say, if furniture advertisement was alone on any site in that case I could not have gone to see the furniture first place.

It is obviously together, but the law can see the other way around. Any law should see motive if I wanted to buy furniture alone why I am not buying furniture now.



Is it worth to buy furniture without flat and move it? - my opinion, in this case No.



Can seller able to sale furniture to anyone else?

- my opinion , No - otherwise he can sale now as well
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  #49  
Old 03.01.2017, 19:22
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Re: Legal advice for buying 2nd hand furniture

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So you are saying he could have gotten the flat without taking the furniture. I doubt it very much.If he liked the furniture and really wanted them for himself ( regardless of getting the flat or not ) it would be different.In this case I would say he is obliged to take them and pay. But I doubt it was like this.
You forget: He got a different flat in the end. In the same house, offered by the landlord, I think.
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  #50  
Old 03.01.2017, 19:43
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Re: Legal advice for buying 2nd hand furniture

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He won't take you to court. He is bluffing because he knows if and when he loses it will be very expensive.
This is a dispute about nonpayment - he'll start with a cheap Betreibung first. You can dispute it as unjustified, but it'll stay on your record anyway, and this is generally unpleasant. Then it's his move: he can take it to court or do nothing. In the latter case you'd have to turn to the court yourself to have it cleansed from the records. This involves paying some money to the court upfront to have the case looked at, which you can claim back if you win.
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  #51  
Old 03.01.2017, 20:13
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Re: Legal advice for buying 2nd hand furniture

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This is a dispute about nonpayment - he'll start with a cheap Betreibung first. You can dispute it as unjustified, but it'll stay on your record anyway, and this is generally unpleasant. Then it's his move: he can take it to court or do nothing. In the latter case you'd have to turn to the court yourself to have it cleansed from the records. This involves paying some money to the court upfront to have the case looked at, which you can claim back if you win.
Yes and no. It is also a dispute about does he owe the money or not.

And personally I'm so sick and tired of foreigners being threatened with "Betreibungen" all the fu**ing time - I'm all for OP fighting this. Making him buying the furniture to get the flat was illegal. "Nötigung" (duress). And even though OP agreed - he agreed in reference to that flat - which he did not rent.
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  #52  
Old 03.01.2017, 20:18
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Re: Legal advice for buying 2nd hand furniture

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It is also a dispute about does he owe the money or not.
Whether he really owes money or not is irrelevant to Betreibungamt. It's not their call to make, it's decided in the court in the next step, if you contest the Betreibung. And costs more money to the loser.
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  #53  
Old 03.01.2017, 20:19
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Re: Legal advice for buying 2nd hand furniture

If its illegal what the tenant did according to a lawyer then the whole thing is closed. This should finish the whole discussion.
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Hi All,


I check with lawyer and he told me that it is illegal to enforce to take furniture with the flat first place.


Now he has dumped the furniture near my building gate with my name , without getting consent from me. I have already informed my agency about same.


Should I call police and inform the situation ?
I haven't made any payment .


Please let me know what is your suggestions.


With Regards,
Pawan Kumar
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  #54  
Old 03.01.2017, 20:34
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Re: Legal advice for buying 2nd hand furniture

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Whether he really owes money or not is irrelevant to Betreibungamt. It's not their call to make, it's decided in the court in the next step, if you contest the Betreibung. And costs more money to the loser.
Exactly.
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  #55  
Old 03.01.2017, 20:51
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Re: Legal advice for buying 2nd hand furniture

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Whether he really owes money or not is irrelevant to Betreibungamt. It's not their call to make, it's decided in the court in the next step, if you contest the Betreibung. And costs more money to the loser.
It costs nothing to contest, the person fighting then has to pay to go further, if he does not nothing happens.

Anybody in CH can issue a Betreibung against anyone else for the hell of it, it means absolutely nothing until it goes to court & then only if found against you.
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Old 03.01.2017, 20:55
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Re: Legal advice for buying 2nd hand furniture

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if he does not nothing happens.
One thing happens: Betreibung stays on your record. Which means near zero chances to get any loan, credit card, non-prepaid phone, or another apartment until you get it sorted out yourself.
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  #57  
Old 03.01.2017, 20:57
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Re: Legal advice for buying 2nd hand furniture

So he sorts it out. Whats the problem
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Old 03.01.2017, 21:00
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Re: Legal advice for buying 2nd hand furniture

It forces him to go to the court by himself and pay the court and lawyer fees for this. If he's sure that he'll win, then it's no problem, he'll get the money back from the loser.
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Old 03.01.2017, 21:18
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Re: Legal advice for buying 2nd hand furniture

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One thing happens: Betreibung stays on your record. Which means near zero chances to get any loan, credit card, non-prepaid phone, or another apartment until you get it sorted out yourself.
If it's contested it has no effect whatsoever, as I said anyone could take out one against you for 100,000 chf tomorrow.
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It forces him to go to the court by himself and pay the court and lawyer fees for this. If he's sure that he'll win, then it's no problem, he'll get the money back from the loser.
No requirement for a lawyer, lawyers in CH say almost nothing in court because the judge handles all the questions rather then each sides lawyer as would happen in the UK/US. If you take a lawyer you will likely not get your full costs or possibly even any costs back.
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Old 03.01.2017, 21:24
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Re: Legal advice for buying 2nd hand furniture

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If it's contested it has no effect whatsoever, as I said anyone could take out one against you for 100,000 chf tomorrow.
And everyone else can see that you've got a Betreibung for 100k and avoid doing any business with you. Especially all your prospective future landlords - they'll toss your application right into the trash bin at first sight of that.
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