 | | | 
31.05.2017, 16:08
|  | RIP | | Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Eglisau
Posts: 7,273
Groaned at 47 Times in 46 Posts
Thanked 14,131 Times in 5,506 Posts
| | Re: Language question | Quote: | |  | | | People living in the German speaking part of Switzerland are very used to the fact that X may be named Y but actually pronounced Z or W. PS: This is all good until you go to the "German" speaking part of Canton Valais. | | | | | LOL.
For the first few years I was here I thought that the reason I had trouble understanding the Walliser was that they weren't speaking their mother tongue! One day at work I had a meeting with a Walliser and I said "I wish my French was good enough that we could work in your mother tongue." The guy laughed so hard I thought I was going to have to call an ambulance, then once he caught his breath he explained that the way he spoke German was his mother tongue. For years afterwards whenever we were both in a meeting he would say "My French is crap, but if you wanna try it... we could speak French."
__________________
If everyone you know agrees with you consistently, they are either not listening, or not capable of critical thought.
| 
31.05.2017, 16:20
|  | RIP | | Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Murten - Morat
Posts: 11,885
Groaned at 563 Times in 354 Posts
Thanked 11,548 Times in 5,941 Posts
| | Re: Language question | Quote: | |  | | | For example if i said:
Mir ist kalt/Ich been kalt(i am cold) they will understand me ? | | | | | Probably... but be very careful.
Do NOT say to anyone "ich bin heiss", or worse, "ich bin warm" these phrases have sexual implications!
Also wrong, "ich bin kalt" - it means you are frigid, but nobody will be offended.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I think in the beginning you need a certain amount of luck, many people will close their minds if they don't like your accent.
I had worked in a country area south of Frankfurt for 18 months, and knew some German, but problems were waiting for me in the Munich bakery:
Conversation in German:
me: Do you have a doughnut please? ............. (My mistake, I had used the Frankfurt word, not the Munich word for a doughnut, Kreppel vs Krapfen)
lady: Huh ?
me: a doughnut, it is round like a bread roll, it is fried in oil, covered in sugar, and has jam in the middle.
lady: yes we have bread rolls...
.
.
Last edited by Sbrinz; 31.05.2017 at 16:30.
| 
31.05.2017, 16:23
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Kt. Bern
Posts: 4,225
Groaned at 200 Times in 157 Posts
Thanked 6,757 Times in 3,039 Posts
| | Re: Language question | Quote: | |  | | | I have been asked in English if I speak French, this was in Bahnhofstrasse Zurich  | | | | | Most amusing one I've seen is two Italians as work trying to speak German to each other. Took them about 10 minutes to realise they could use Italian!
| The following 4 users would like to thank Jim2007 for this useful post: | | 
31.05.2017, 16:33
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Lugano
Posts: 29,703
Groaned at 2,103 Times in 1,570 Posts
Thanked 35,466 Times in 16,831 Posts
| | Re: Language question | Quote: | |  | | | me: Do you have a doughnut please? ............. (My mistake, I had used the Frankfurt word, not the Munich word for a doughnut, Kreppel vs Krapfen)
lady: Huh ?
me: a doughnut, it is round like a bread roll, it is fried in oil, covered in sugar, and has jam in the middle.
lady: yes we have bread rolls... | | | | | The correct word is Berliner.
Tom
| 
31.05.2017, 16:34
|  | RIP | | Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Murten - Morat
Posts: 11,885
Groaned at 563 Times in 354 Posts
Thanked 11,548 Times in 5,941 Posts
| | Re: Language question
Hee hee, yes I had the same experience in Lausanne, with French.
| 
31.05.2017, 16:34
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Zurich
Posts: 10,880
Groaned at 229 Times in 193 Posts
Thanked 22,705 Times in 9,637 Posts
| | Re: Language question | Quote: | |  | | | I found that Swiss German pronunciation is so close to Standard German that I quickly learned to translate on the fly (Uuswiis=Ausweis, Ufa=Auf etc).
I took formal courses for Standard German, Swiss German just sort of happened in the 20h of the day that I was outside of the class (for the first 3 months).
They're different, but so closely related that (to a native English speaker who isn't confused by the differences between UK and US English) you'll probably hear them more like two dialects, rather than two separate languages.
You'll get them mixed up every now and then, but after about a year or so that will be rare.
My advice would be learn Standard German first. If you (or the Swiss who you interact with) feel the need for a Swiss German course after a year or two, then take one. | | | | | I learnt standard German before coming to Switzerland and learnt Swiss German here.
The other day, my OH, who is German, made fun of me for using the word absitzen in a German conversation in Germany. This shows to what extent Switzzerland has poluuted my German.
| 
31.05.2017, 16:36
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Zurich
Posts: 10,880
Groaned at 229 Times in 193 Posts
Thanked 22,705 Times in 9,637 Posts
| | Re: Language question | Quote: | |  | | | The correct word is Berliner. 
Tom | | | | | President Kennedy will always be remembered for that one.
What a pity that Obama didn't build on that fame and go to Budapest and hold a speech saying "Barack vagyok" (I am a peach)
| This user would like to thank amogles for this useful post: | | 
31.05.2017, 16:37
|  | RIP | | Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Murten - Morat
Posts: 11,885
Groaned at 563 Times in 354 Posts
Thanked 11,548 Times in 5,941 Posts
| | Re: Language question | Quote: | |  | | | The correct word is Berliner. 
Tom | | | | | In Bavaria, the correct word is Krapfen.
Alan.
| 
31.05.2017, 16:43
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Verbier
Posts: 19,409
Groaned at 413 Times in 307 Posts
Thanked 19,345 Times in 10,397 Posts
| | Re: Language question | Quote: | |  | | | Most amusing one I've seen is two Italians as work trying to speak German to each other. Took them about 10 minutes to realise they could use Italian! | | | | | A good friend spent 5 minutes speaking to a car rental company in French, eventually they realised they were both English, happens all the time.
| The following 2 users would like to thank fatmanfilms for this useful post: | | 
01.06.2017, 09:53
| Newbie 1st class | | Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: I dont live in Switzerland yet
Posts: 27
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
| | Re: Language question
Thanks for all reply
If we summarize all the population of Switzerland by language the picture will be like this :
60 % speak german
30 % speak french
10 % speak italian
And also
40-50 % speak English(mainly in the urban areas)
Is this correct ?
| 
01.06.2017, 15:07
| Banned | | Join Date: Feb 2014 Location: The World
Posts: 1,380
Groaned at 282 Times in 153 Posts
Thanked 1,115 Times in 636 Posts
| | Re: Language question | Quote: | |  | | | Thanks for all reply
If we summarize all the population of Switzerland by language the picture will be like this :
60 % speak german
30 % speak french
10 % speak italian
And also
40-50 % speak English(mainly in the urban areas)
Is this correct ? | | | | | Very roughly yes, but in my experience there are lot of people in Ticino who also speaks German but not so much in the Romandie. So in fact if you take into account the those who speak German fluently also as a second language, than it is more skewed towards German. I might be wrong but at least it is my perception.
| This user would like to thank Capo for this useful post: | | 
01.06.2017, 16:55
| Banned | | Join Date: Dec 2015 Location: Switzerland
Posts: 219
Groaned at 81 Times in 40 Posts
Thanked 102 Times in 70 Posts
| | Re: Language question
And aren't there more speakers of Italian actually in all of the other cantons put together than there are in TI and GR?
| 
01.06.2017, 21:31
| Forum Veteran | | Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Switzerland
Posts: 1,367
Groaned at 24 Times in 19 Posts
Thanked 1,013 Times in 600 Posts
| | Re: Language question | Quote: | |  | | | And aren't there more speakers of Italian actually in all of the other cantons put together than there are in TI and GR? | | | | | There's a spectrum of italian speakers outside of TI/GR, there are new immigrants who speak perfect italian, but there are a lot who speak some italian learnt from their parents who maybe speak only third elementary level sourthern italian from 40 years ago. I am an italian speaker and I think many of them especially the younger generations really struggle, and they intercalate with swiss german words. I think only maybe 20% speak italian like a true bilingual, and in general they prefer swiss german.
| This user would like to thank Meerkat33 for this useful post: | | 
02.06.2017, 10:44
| Newbie 1st class | | Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: I dont live in Switzerland yet
Posts: 27
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
| | Re: Language question
Thanks
So learning German is the key 
I am now studying it hard and yesterday i make an online A1 test
I have a 60 % success so for a one month and a half is not so bad 
Would you recommend me some sites about learning German.
Now i am using this: https://www.duolingo.com/
and this https://app.supermemo.com/#/learn/317
Is this enough and would you recommend me other sites ?
| This user would like to thank TomasTomas for this useful post: | | 
02.06.2017, 11:10
|  | Forum Legend | | Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Lugano
Posts: 29,703
Groaned at 2,103 Times in 1,570 Posts
Thanked 35,466 Times in 16,831 Posts
| | Re: Language question | Quote: | |  | | | And aren't there more speakers of Italian actually in all of the other cantons put together than there are in TI and GR? | | | | | No. 350k in TI/GR, 545k nationwide.
Tom
| 
02.06.2017, 11:10
|  | RIP | | Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Eglisau
Posts: 7,273
Groaned at 47 Times in 46 Posts
Thanked 14,131 Times in 5,506 Posts
| | Re: Language question | Quote: | |  | | | Thanks
So learning German is the key 
I am now studying it hard and yesterday i make an online A1 test
I have a 60 % success so for a one month and a half is not so bad 
Would you recommend me some sites about learning German.
Now i am using this: https://www.duolingo.com/
and this https://app.supermemo.com/#/learn/317
Is this enough and would you recommend me other sites ? | | | | | Learning German is indeed the key.
Online resources and tests have some value, but the litmus test is walking up to a random stranger and asking a random question, and being able to figure out what their answer is.
And the way to interpret the results of that test is:
The more trepidation and preparation you experience before approaching and asking a question, the more you need to work on yourself, and your German.
The longer it takes for the random stranger to respond (and the more consternation their facial expression reveals), the more you need to work on your German (but you're past the "I can't open my mouth until my German is perfect" personal inhibition.)
The longer it takes you to interpret the answer the more you need to work on your German (or you've reached the point where you're asking philosophical questions which by their nature require interpretation).
Just get out there and do it. It is very rare for people who speak funny to be sold off into the slave trade. The more you speak funny, the less funny you will speak.
You will probably go through various stages, some of mine were: - Prepare every sentence, translating from English to German, initially on paper, later in your head.
- Carry a dictionary to lookup specific words.
- Stop carrying your dictionary.
- Notice that people seem to misunderstand you only very rarely.
- You only rarely need to explain a joke you made in German.
- You visit Italy or France, and instinctively try to speak German, rather than your mother tongue or the local language.
- You start slipping into German when you're tired and talking to people who don't speak German.
- Native German speakers get your jokes in German all of the time.
- You go to an English speaking country and you have to translate (in your head) from German to English for the first couple of days you're there.
EDIT: That list should include: "You join EF because you realise that your English has started to sound like the dialogue from a '50s cowboy movie"
__________________
If everyone you know agrees with you consistently, they are either not listening, or not capable of critical thought.
Last edited by JagWaugh; 02.06.2017 at 11:20.
| The following 2 users would like to thank JagWaugh for this useful post: | | 
02.06.2017, 11:16
| Banned | | Join Date: Dec 2015 Location: Switzerland
Posts: 219
Groaned at 81 Times in 40 Posts
Thanked 102 Times in 70 Posts
| | Re: Language question | Quote: | |  | | | No.
Tom | | | | | Oh, I was told that there were.
I assume it is because most Italian speaking immigrants nowadays identify themselves (and put themselves down on the census principally as speakers of German.
| 
02.06.2017, 11:35
| Newbie 1st class | | Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: I dont live in Switzerland yet
Posts: 27
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
| | Re: Language question | Quote: | |  | | | Learning German is indeed the key.
Online resources and tests have some value, but the litmus test is walking up to a random stranger and asking a random question, and being able to figure out what their answer is.
And the way to interpret the results of that test is:
The more trepidation and preparation you experience before approaching and asking a question, the more you need to work on yourself, and your German.
The longer it takes for the random stranger to respond (and the more consternation their facial expression reveals), the more you need to work on your German (but you're past the "I can't open my mouth until my German is perfect" personal inhibition.)
The longer it takes you to interpret the answer the more you need to work on your German (or you've reached the point where you're asking philosophical questions which by their nature require interpretation).
Just get out there and do it. It is very rare for people who speak funny to be sold off into the slave trade. The more you speak funny, the less funny you will speak.
You will probably go through various stages, some of mine were: - Prepare every sentence, translating from English to German, initially on paper, later in your head.
- Carry a dictionary to lookup specific words.
- Stop carrying your dictionary.
- Notice that people seem to misunderstand you only very rarely.
- You only rarely need to explain a joke you made in German.
- You visit Italy or France, and instinctively try to speak German, rather than your mother tongue or the local language.
- You start slipping into German when you're tired and talking to people who don't speak German.
- Native German speakers get your jokes in German all of the time.
- You go to an English speaking country and you have to translate (in your head) from German to English for the first couple of days you're there.
EDIT: That list should include: "You join EF because you realise that your English has started to sound like the dialogue from a '50s cowboy movie" | | | | | Yes,in the real life this test dont count so much.
If i speak frankly the German is no easy(i dont think that i make a huge discovery  )
But what is your best effective strategy/tactics to learn the language ?
For me is to learn whole sentences with the most important/most used phrases
And some technical question.
For example
Wir werden den Flughafen erweitern (We will expand the airport ) why the places of Flughafen(airport) and erweitern(expand) are changed
If we translate it directly it will be "We will the airport expand"
Same with this:
Ich werde ihn einstellen(We will hire him)
The direct translation will be "We will him hire "
Same with this:
Sie wird das Zimmer sehen(She will see the room)
Direct translation will be "she will the room see"
Or
Ich werde dich in meinem Zimmer erwarten(I will expect you in my room)
Direct translation "I will you in my room expect"
From where it comes this changing of words ?
P.S
I am very sorry if my question look stupid.
| 
02.06.2017, 11:52
|  | RIP | | Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Eglisau
Posts: 7,273
Groaned at 47 Times in 46 Posts
Thanked 14,131 Times in 5,506 Posts
| | Re: Language question | Quote: | |  | | | Yes,in the real life this test dont count so much.
If i speak frankly the German is no easy(i dont think that i make a huge discovery )
But what is your best effective strategy/tactics to learn the language ?
For me is to learn whole sentences with the most important/most used phrases
And some technical question.
For example
Wir werden den Flughafen erweitern (We will expand the airport ) why the places of Flughafen(airport) and erweitern(expand) are changed
If we translate it directly it will be "We will the airport expand"
Same with this:
Ich werde ihn einstellen(We will hire him)
The direct translation will be "We will him hire "
Same with this:
Sie wird das Zimmer sehen(She will see the room)
Direct translation will be "she will the room see"
Or
Ich werde dich in meinem Zimmer erwarten(I will expect you in my room)
Direct translation "I will you in my room expect"
From where it comes this changing of words ?
P.S
I am very sorry if my question look stupid. | | | | | Part of the syntax of German is to shuffle the verb to the end of the sentence. Think of it as a sort of built in parity check: Listen until you've heard a verb, the sentence is now complete.
The rule isn't universal.
You're still in the "Translate" phase. In a certain sense you're not learning German yet, you're learning how to recognize the difference between German and English. (This isn't a criticism, we all went through it.)
Once you stop comparing everything to English you've started properly learning German. (What does a child compare language to when they are learning their mother tongue?)
German isn't any more difficult to learn than any other language, once you get past the "translate" phase. You can't force this, but the more you get out and use a language the better your progress will be.
Harrap's "German Grammar" is a good technical resource to help you decode German constructions, but you have to understand enough about grammar to make sense of it.
__________________
If everyone you know agrees with you consistently, they are either not listening, or not capable of critical thought.
| This user would like to thank JagWaugh for this useful post: | | 
02.06.2017, 12:45
| Forum Legend | | Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: Ostschweiz
Posts: 8,154
Groaned at 385 Times in 293 Posts
Thanked 10,588 Times in 5,589 Posts
| | Re: Language question | Quote: | |  | | | | | | | | The question is what should be called "Italian speaker", just native speakers or should it include those who use it often (at least once a week, though at what level is unknown)? In the latter case 15-17% of the population count. See "regelmässig verwendete Sprachen" on this official statistics.
| This user would like to thank Urs Max for this useful post: | |
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests) | | Thread Tools | | Display Modes | Linear Mode |
Posting Rules
| You may not post new threads You may not post replies You may not post attachments You may not edit your posts HTML code is Off | | | All times are GMT +2. The time now is 21:07. | |