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Old 12.09.2017, 19:28
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Is forgery criminal or civil law?

As the title says, I've been told conflicting info, I found it in the english version of the swiss criminal code "Art. 251217" but I'm told the crime is civil.

It was a signature and notary seal for a passport application

Anyone here happen to know?

Last edited by BLP; 12.09.2017 at 19:44.
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Old 12.09.2017, 19:33
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Re: Is forgery criminal or civil law?

I would think it depends on what the subject of the forgery is.

There's a difference between using a fake diploma for your job and making 1.000.000 fake watches.
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Old 12.09.2017, 19:45
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Re: Is forgery criminal or civil law?

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I would think it depends on what the subject of the forgery is.

There's a difference between using a fake diploma for your job and making 1.000.000 fake watches.
Sorry, tired, forgot that bit, added more info
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Old 12.09.2017, 19:46
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Re: Is forgery criminal or civil law?

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As the title says, I've been told conflicting info, I found it in the english version of the swiss criminal code "Art. 251217" but I'm told the crime is civil.

It was a signature and notary seal for a passport application

Anyone here happen to know?
Civil I would say
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Old 12.09.2017, 19:49
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Re: Is forgery criminal or civil law?

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It was a signature and notary seal for a passport application
Criminal, Urkundenfälschung. Up to 5 years.

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but I'm told the crime is civil.
Civil crime is as absurd as an alcohol free vodka
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Old 12.09.2017, 19:49
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Re: Is forgery criminal or civil law?

Forgery is included in the criminal code (according to Wiki-P).

Specific provisions (articles 111-332 of the Penal Code)


Criminal acts against life and limb
Criminal acts against property
Criminal actions against the honor and the private sector
Crimes and crimes against freedom
Criminal acts against sexual integrity
Crimes and offenses against family
Community dangerous crimes and misdemeanors
Crimes and crimes against public health
Crimes and crimes against the public transport
Counterfeiting of currency, postage stamps, official marks, weights and measures
Forgery
Crimes and crimes against the public peace
Crimes against the interests of the international community
Crimes and crimes against the state and national defense
Crimes against the people's will
Offenses against public authority
Disruption of foreign relations
Crimes and offenses against the administration of justice
Offenses against the official and professional duty
Corruption
Violations of civil service legislation


Link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_Criminal_Code

Plus the searches I did all have a criminal viewpoint on the situation.
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Old 12.09.2017, 19:54
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Re: Is forgery criminal or civil law?

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Forgery is included in the criminal code (according to Wiki-P).

Specific provisions (articles 111-332 of the Penal Code)


Criminal acts against life and limb
Criminal acts against property
Criminal actions against the honor and the private sector
Crimes and crimes against freedom
Criminal acts against sexual integrity
Crimes and offenses against family
Community dangerous crimes and misdemeanors
Crimes and crimes against public health
Crimes and crimes against the public transport
Counterfeiting of currency, postage stamps, official marks, weights and measures
Forgery
Crimes and crimes against the public peace
Crimes against the interests of the international community
Crimes and crimes against the state and national defense
Crimes against the people's will
Offenses against public authority
Disruption of foreign relations
Crimes and offenses against the administration of justice
Offenses against the official and professional duty
Corruption
Violations of civil service legislation


Link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_Criminal_Code

Plus the searches I did all have a criminal viewpoint on the situation.

Odd I can't do a police report then?
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Old 12.09.2017, 19:55
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Re: Is forgery criminal or civil law?

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Criminal, Urkundenfälschung. Up to 5 years.
I referenced that and was told it was in the "civil" part of the criminal code. I am not sure though, been looking it up in English due to my poor French/German
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Old 12.09.2017, 19:57
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Re: Is forgery criminal or civil law?

How good is your German? If ok, go to a police station and ask or call your embassy. They should be interested in this - I hope for you.
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Old 12.09.2017, 19:59
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Re: Is forgery criminal or civil law?

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I referenced that and was told it was in the "civil" part of the criminal code.
It's relatively civil compared to say murder, but it'll still get you behind bars alright
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Old 12.09.2017, 20:00
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Re: Is forgery criminal or civil law?

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How good is your German? If ok, go to a police station and ask or call your embassy. They should be interested in this - I hope for you.
French here, and not good and i'm being told it's civil

The embassy wont do anything because they are in the Netherlands not Switzerland, too hard for them to bring charges they said.

The other 2 forged signatures were more minor and neither company in Switzerland cared too much.

I am unaware if there is more
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Old 12.09.2017, 20:06
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Re: Is forgery criminal or civil law?

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It's relatively civil compared to say murder, but it'll still get you behind bars alright
Probably not on a first offence, suspended sentence ........

If he refuses to speak to the Police it will be very difficult to get a conviction without an admission of guilt. True in 80% of all cases.
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Old 12.09.2017, 20:09
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Re: Is forgery criminal or civil law?

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As the title says, I've been told conflicting info, I found it in the english version of the swiss criminal code "Art. 251217" but I'm told the crime is civil.
Art. 251217 Damm we have alot of laws !

Do answer it in super short: Can be both.

Criminal law is all about punishment of a wrongdoing by the state. The punishment can be a fine, a monetary penalty based on your income, or jail. If you have to pay money it will go into the communal coffer.

Art. 251 Swiss Crimnal Code covers "Forgery of a document"
https://www.admin.ch/opc/en/classifi...ndex.html#a251
and goes on to Art. 257 "Removal of survey points and water level indicators"

But additionally there are also:
Art. 240 to 250 which covers counterfeiting of money, stamps etc.

and Art. 155 Swiss Criminal Code "Counterfeiting of goods"
https://www.admin.ch/opc/en/classifi...ndex.html#a155

Civil law on the other hand is a about compensation of a loss somebody had because of your wrongdoing.

This is covered in the Code of Obligations starting at Art. 44 https://www.admin.ch/opc/en/classifi...index.html#a41

Now there are additional laws which may say when Civil compensation has to be paid or Criminal punishment is possible in case of forgery or counterfeits.

See Trade Mark Protection Act https://www.admin.ch/opc/en/classifi...213/index.html
Designs Act https://www.admin.ch/opc/en/classifi...457/index.html
Patents Act https://www.admin.ch/opc/en/classifi...108/index.html
Copyright Act https://www.admin.ch/opc/en/classifi...251/index.html
Sortenschutzgesetz https://www.admin.ch/opc/de/classifi...063/index.html
Topographiengesetz https://www.admin.ch/opc/de/classifi...260/index.html
but also Swiss Civil Code Art. 28 https://www.admin.ch/opc/en/classifi...index.html#a28
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Old 12.09.2017, 20:12
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Re: Is forgery criminal or civil law?

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The embassy wont do anything because they are in the Netherlands not Switzerland, too hard for them to bring charges they said.

The other 2 forged signatures were more minor and neither company in Switzerland cared too much.

I am unaware if there is more
Penalty for doing that in the Netherlands (at a max):

‘Normale’ valsheid in geschrifte: 6 jaar, (normal fraudulent use)

Gebruiken van een vals geschrift: 6 jaar; (use of a fraudulent document)


Whereabouts in the Netherlands is he? I could check if there is any instance that could give your support on that part at least
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Old 12.09.2017, 20:13
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Re: Is forgery criminal or civil law?

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Probably not on a first offence, suspended sentence ........

If he refuses to speak to the Police it will be very difficult to get a conviction without an admission of guilt. True in 80% of all cases.
well I have 3 offences so far that I know of

The notary can attest he didn't sign the paper and I didn't sign it, I think it's obvious it's my ex husband's hand writing like the other examples.

So if the notary says it's fake, it should be easy?
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Old 12.09.2017, 20:14
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Re: Is forgery criminal or civil law?

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I referenced that and was told it was in the "civil" part of the criminal code. I am not sure though, been looking it up in English due to my poor French/German
Not sure what that means.

But some crimes are only prosecuted when the person which is directly affected by it files a complaint. For example if some one hits me physically but without injury only I can press charges and no one else.
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Old 12.09.2017, 20:15
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Re: Is forgery criminal or civil law?

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Penalty for doing that in the Netherlands (at a max):

‘Normale’ valsheid in geschrifte: 6 jaar, (normal fraudulent use)

Gebruiken van een vals geschrift: 6 jaar; (use of a fraudulent document)


Whereabouts in the Netherlands is he? I could check if there is any instance that could give your support on that part at least
He's in Switzerland but it was submitted to the Dutch Embassy then it went to Den Haag, it's too much trouble for the Dutch to prosecute him but I think it is ridiculous given the level of crime!

It has been argued as to why I don't just allow the applications vs the matter at hand which is the forged papers to obtain travel documents like passports without my consent.
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Old 12.09.2017, 20:15
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Re: Is forgery criminal or civil law?

Take it up with the office that handed out the passport, if they want to do nothing about it you can contact the ministry of foreign/internal (depending on the situation) and report it to them. If they forged a signature of a notary known to you you can besides everything else also report it to him directly.

(also if it only was used in an embassy it only concernes the embassy's country)

Is this for your study or an actual case for which you need help?
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Old 12.09.2017, 20:18
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Re: Is forgery criminal or civil law?

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He's in Switzerland but it was submitted to the Dutch Embassy then it went to Den Haag, it's too much trouble for the Dutch to prosecute him but I think it is ridiculous given the level of crime!
I am quite surprised as forgery of documents relating to passports is not viewed as minor and the Netherlands are very vocal on the rights of both parents with regards to children (just check out the regulations on traveling alone with your kids).
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Old 12.09.2017, 20:19
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Re: Is forgery criminal or civil law?

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Take it up with the office that handed out the passport, if they want to do nothing about it you can contact the ministry of foreign/internal (depending on the situation) and report it to them. If they forged a signature of a notary known to you you can besides everything else also report it to him directly.

(also if it only was used in an embassy it only concernes the embassy's country)

Is this for your study or an actual case for which you need help?
They didn't approve them, they were rejected because of fraud. I just want it known here for further court proceedings I have with him and I can't see why he would be unpunished.
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