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Old 15.09.2017, 18:01
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How works a real social and financial life in CH

Hi everybody!
I asked myself lately about how is going on the way of life in Switzerland.
I'd some visits of relatives, live in CH, that I haven't have any contact a long time ago since I went out from GE after my divorce.

One thing that made me confused was how a person had a courage to tell me she's covered on social aids by Geneva gouvernment, in this case they touched some financial aids for paying their appartment rent and the same time They made a big party in Brazil in a luxury house, where expenses were high for celebrating her daugther 15 years old. A budget of a party, recently, for 100 people is around CHF 50.000,00 for 1 night!
I don't know if they are still in this situation actually because I lost their contact again.

Other absurd history was their children have finished secondary school and earn a salary around CHF 8.000 per month without a professional certificate to be engaged in a competitive market as in CH. They work in a restaurant I think.
I've read some threads in here about a teacher with a bachelor diplome and little experience doesn't earn a salary like this in CH.

Sorry in I posr it in a wrong thread.
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Old 15.09.2017, 18:16
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Re: How works a real social and financial life in CH

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Other absurd history was their children have finished secondary school and earn a salary around CHF 8.000 per month without a professional certificate to be engaged in a competitive market as in CH. They work in a restaurant I think.
I know someone with the same education who was making CHF 7000/month working in a restaurant in Lugano, so it's possible, especially in Geneva or other places up north.

Tom

Last edited by st2lemans; 15.09.2017 at 18:30. Reason: spelling
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Old 15.09.2017, 18:25
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Re: How works a real social and financial life in CH

Like in any country, in Switzerland there will be some people who use every loophole and take advantage of the system whenever possible. There will be people who lie and cheat and steal. It sucks, but that's life across the globe.

Keep in mind - just because people claim they're on the dole yet they were able to host a party that cost 50,000, and the kids make 8,000 per month each without any training - it's not necessarily true. They might be saying it to make you jealous.

Then again, it could be true but what can you do about it? Nada.

So what then is a "real" social and financial life in Switzerland? I've only lived in two countries so my frame of reference is small. I'd say you can earn a decent living and save a fair amount of money in Switzerland, provided you make good choices on where to live and what to spend.

There will be people making 120K who spend every bit and claim they are broke. There will also be people making 60K who feel they live like kings.
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Old 15.09.2017, 18:37
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Re: How works a real social and financial life in CH

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Other absurd history was their children have finished secondary school and earn a salary around CHF 8.000 per month without a professional certificate to be engaged in a competitive market as in CH.
What do you mean by "without a professional certificate"? What do even mean by "professional certificate"? No formation professionnelle initiale (apprentissage/apprenticeship) How old are these children?

But in the end, if someone does his job in a good way why shall he not get a good paycheck?
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Old 15.09.2017, 20:32
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Re: How works a real social and financial life in CH

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What do you mean by "without a professional certificate"? What do even mean by "professional certificate"? No formation professionnelle initiale (apprentissage/apprenticeship) How old are these children?

But in the end, if someone does his job in a good way why shall he not get a good paycheck?
I left school a 16, however on my 4th Rahemnfrist my monthly unemployment pay exceeded 8k a month
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Old 15.09.2017, 20:56
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Re: How works a real social and financial life in CH

Don't always believe what other people tell you when it comes to the price of their party or what their kids earn. People who like to boast about such things often change the numbers a bit to their own advantage.

My old neighbour in the Netherlands: Look at my new car, it's amazing and costed 40K.

Me: And how much rent do you pay on that 40K?

End of discussion....
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Old 16.09.2017, 01:57
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Re: How works a real social and financial life in CH

Thanks so much, I appreciate your efforts to answer me.

I started this discussion to understand better how the job, salary and social system work nowadays. It's only a curiosity being prepared in a next eventual contact with them.

Yes, I realised that there was a kind of jealous sense behind of their story.

Look:
I remember a period when I lived in CH, I holded a B permit which I could work to pay all of expenses necessaries for having a simple life. My revenus with my old husband's could arrive around CHF 10.000,00 per month. I shared many expenses as appartment rent, bilag and others home expenses. With the rest of my revenus I paid my taxes, my transport card, Health care, clothes, travel, school courses, etc.
So I've earned around CH 2.500,00 per month, and I couldn't come to Brazil to spend much money and more with a B permit couldn't have much choice to have a great job with an exceptional salary.

If I compare all of this, between 2000-2005 and their last contact, many things can be changed in GE, even because in the social system, in my period, the laws were more "hard" for social aids.

or maybe I'm so selfish to imagine to demand social aids by gouvernment, even if I passed in a critical moment in terms of financial side.

Well, one of my relative has a brazilian girl aged 23, but in her birthday party she was 15. I don't know if she's finished her high school. So she holds a B permit.

The other one has a brazilian boy, aged 21, and I don't know if he 's finished his high school, in this case her mother declared his salary posted in this thread. I don't what kind of permit, because his old father-in-law is from Spanish.

Everything that I know about them. A formation professionnelle I don't know if they have.

For finishing I'm surprise to know there are "low" jobs with a good salaty,
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Old 16.09.2017, 05:16
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Re: How works a real social and financial life in CH

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more with a B permit couldn't have much choice to have a great job with an exceptional salary.
B or C permit makes no difference as far as I know
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or maybe I'm so selfish to imagine to demand social aids by gouvernment, even if I passed in a critical moment in terms of financial side.
At least in popular imagination brazilians usually "like" the welfare system but she must be on a C permit then? Geneva is also very socialist so maybe they dish out money more easily, but it's true that in Switzerland being on welfare is frowned upon.
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The other one has a brazilian boy, aged 21, and I don't know if he 's finished his high school, in this case her mother declared his salary posted in this thread.
For finishing I'm surprise to know there are "low" jobs with a good salaty,
High school can grant you formal professional qualification, university doesn't lead to high salary at least before you hit your 30s or maybe never. But why is working in a restaurant necessarily a "low" job? He could be a maitre d' or work in some fancy restaurant, or maybe has other side gigs.

Regarding the party, they might have pooled the budget together with the attendants or spent 2 years worth of savings.

Last edited by Meerkat33; 16.09.2017 at 05:31.
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Old 16.09.2017, 07:23
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Re: How works a real social and financial life in CH

"But why is working in a restaurant necessarily a 'low' job? He could be a maitre d' or work in some fancy restaurant." Meerkat33

That's a Brazilian regard about some professional areas. It consideres it in here, cause normaly it has a concentrated professionals with low salaries, except le secteur de la gastronomie haut gamme of course.

These professionals sometimes need to return to school for concluding their studies, in this case they can obtain a certificate (a diplome) to be well recognized and have a salary better.

But for a maitre d'or, I think they need to attend a university or make specialization courses abroad.

Like anywhere, there are schooling system for people didn't finish their studies in right age (17 years old).

I leaded some classrooms in this school public system and all of students, aged 19-50, had low salaries, mainly restaurant sector. Fortunately, everybody was so motivated to change carrier or make it better.

In GE, there are many professional courses I know you can obtain a certificate to be well prepared in job sector.
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Old 16.09.2017, 09:00
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Re: How works a real social and financial life in CH

As others have said, your relative is exaggerating to make his/her self seem more important (or whatever).

If the son works in a restaurant he is probably making 4000 a month, not 8.

Anyway the kids grew up in Switzerland. So they were probably highly encouraged to get some sort of professional certificate which you don't know about. You are making wild speculations about this persons children. But why? Why do you care about all this if you say you've lost contact with them?
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Old 16.09.2017, 11:14
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Re: How works a real social and financial life in CH

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Hi everybody!
I asked myself lately about how is going on the way of life in Switzerland.
I'd some visits of relatives, live in CH, that I haven't have any contact a long time ago since I went out from GE after my divorce.

One thing that made me confused was how a person had a courage to tell me she's covered on social aids by Geneva gouvernment, in this case they touched some financial aids for paying their appartment rent and the same time They made a big party in Brazil in a luxury house, where expenses were high for celebrating her daugther 15 years old. A budget of a party, recently, for 100 people is around CHF 50.000,00 for 1 night!
I don't know if they are still in this situation actually because I lost their contact again.

Other absurd history was their children have finished secondary school and earn a salary around CHF 8.000 per month without a professional certificate to be engaged in a competitive market as in CH. They work in a restaurant I think.
I've read some threads in here about a teacher with a bachelor diplome and little experience doesn't earn a salary like this in CH.

Sorry in I posr it in a wrong thread.
First of all
- a salary of 8000 chf it is possible
- social aid, I don't know...guess the French part is very socialist and all that. Where I live you have to be really poor to get social aid. I don't know anyone who does, Swiss or foreigner.

But really, don't believe everything you hear or read. Some people like to brag. Love to brag. And as miniMia said, why do you care?

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Anyway the kids grew up in Switzerland. So they were probably highly encouraged to get some sort of professional certificate which you don't know about. You are making wild speculations about this persons children. But why? Why do you care about all this if you say you've lost contact with them?
This. The only reason I can come up with is that maybe OP and this person come from the same place, probably a small town, village etc, where everybody is curious and wants to know all the details about other people's lives.

Last edited by greenmount; 16.09.2017 at 11:48.
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Old 16.09.2017, 22:18
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Re: How works a real social and financial life in CH

But why? Why do you care about all this if you say you've lost contact with them?[/QUOTE]

In fact those histories posted in here are nothing in relation to anothers which they create. I realised it's a kind of competition between them and my sisters. Now we've a big familiar problem.

I care about my sisters, our relatioship was so bad. I don't accept they come here, in our house, to create their histories. It has no sense if someone who doesn't like another come to" visit" us with their cildren and their husband just make jealousy here. Probably to persuade my sisters that I wasn't capable to have family, a good job and a marriage in GE.


Only thing let me so confused why my sisters know that, mainly my twin sister!!!, and share good moments with my relatives .To know why all this, It's difficult having a dialogue in a round table nowadays,. I finish my page in their history without asking why all of this, I was who gave the sin, blood and body to help them in their difficult moments, and the worse everybody says how I was helpful for them, however ...

Only thing I brought from CH was my certificates of all my studies, that's all, so I can't do nothing else for while in this competition.
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Old 17.09.2017, 05:16
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Re: How works a real social and financial life in CH

I'm not sure I grasp the conclusion, are you jealous or not?
Seems like complicate family matters but it sounds like it's stirring up old stuff.
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Old 17.09.2017, 10:42
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Re: How works a real social and financial life in CH

I guess it's the typical situation. There are those who spread the wild stories at home and those who lived reality in Switzerland, struggled to help those back home financially and eventually returned home with not much more than when they left. Good on you for using the chance to educate yourself and returnin home with diplomas, experience and new knowledge.

If I understand you correctly people blame you now for not having helped them enough while you were in Switzerland and also for having given up this "wonderful" life here.

I'm sorry, you will just have to bear it. You will not be able to argue this or make those parts of your family and friends who never left the country understand how things really are.
People coming home to visit will always have more money to spend than the locals even if they are on social security here. a) because they saved up for the trip (and they DO) and b) because the Swiss Frank is strong.

The family expects them to "have made it" and although they know money is not growing on Swiss trees ..... they kind of think so anyway

Do those friends you mentioned seriously help at home financially or do they just pop by, throw parties and money around? Let me guess

Don't let it get to you (easier said than done, I know). You have been here, you know reality, you did what you could for your family while you were here. Salaries have dropped not risen since 2005.

Some people take the "fake it until you make it" theme the wrong way: They think they have to make others believe they reached their goal .... this way they will never make it.
Let them be, carry on with your own path - which seems to be to keep educating yourself, great path - and take the straight forward accusations that you did something wrong/wasted your chances as well as the hidden ones in stride. You know better but your knowledge is not in demand back home because it spoils their dreams.

Your sadness is real but you will have to live with it. Focus on your own life, you don't owe anybody anything. After all, they can all move to Switzerland or Europe and check it out for themselves, no? Tell them so, if they bug you.
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Old 17.09.2017, 11:04
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Re: How works a real social and financial life in CH

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In fact those histories posted in here are nothing in relation to anothers which they create. I realised it's a kind of competition between them and my sisters. Now we've a big familiar problem.

I care about my sisters, our relatioship was so bad. I don't accept they come here, in our house, to create their histories. It has no sense if someone who doesn't like another come to" visit" us with their cildren and their husband just make jealousy here. Probably to persuade my sisters that I wasn't capable to have family, a good job and a marriage in GE.


Only thing let me so confused why my sisters know that, mainly my twin sister!!!, and share good moments with my relatives .To know why all this, It's difficult having a dialogue in a round table nowadays,. I finish my page in their history without asking why all of this, I was who gave the sin, blood and body to help them in their difficult moments, and the worse everybody says how I was helpful for them, however ...

Only thing I brought from CH was my certificates of all my studies, that's all, so I can't do nothing else for while in this competition.


What I can gather from your post is that these people that live in CH (they're also some relatives of yours, right?) came to your sisters' house to brag about their (pretended) success and happiness in Switzerland and that made you feel small and incapable. You didn't "make it" here, whatever that might mean for other people.
I think your sisters have the right to socialise with whoever they see fit, even though all those stories (true or false) make you feel uncomfortable. Just tell them it wasn't as easy for you in CH and you had other priorities (your studies), and you did whatever you could, and that's the end of it. If they love you they already know that. If not, then there's no point to fight for the truth anyway.
One more time: you know who you are.

Edit> wow, curley is spot on. What she said.
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Old 17.09.2017, 17:04
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Re: How works a real social and financial life in CH

Yes, I'm so jealous about my affairs, even if it's bad or good, cause the problems make part of my life; and just me to manage them. And I don't know how I got it, to organise my life after a big mess, it wasn't easy. Only thing that I hate is to mix private issues when I've been in CH, it let me crazy.

I was considered dumb or stupid to let this situation goes on. After I was in a hole, I'd to restart, and more I needed to accept recent familiar situation, I was so sad about and this hurted deeply inside me. Our relationship isn't well, but at least I asked them to respect each other our territory. Me and my sisters live together and we have a schedule to take care my mom, an ill person. I promised my sisters to be here and help to care my mom.

I agree my sisters have to socialise, but I don't know anyone have accepted to make mess in her/his house cause of people fancies.

Finaly, thanks for all reponses, Exactly that I think.
Switzerland is a wonderful country and very organised, however it's very expensive and many politics have changed since I went out from Geneva.

Thanks Curley, it was good to read you.
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Old 18.09.2017, 08:51
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Re: How works a real social and financial life in CH

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you have to be really poor to get social aid.
Less than 2k/month or so, and they will just top it up to that amount.

(the exception is widow/widower aid, that will come on top of any other income and is NOT means tested)

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I don't know anyone who does, Swiss or foreigner.
I know several people who do now or have done in the past, but ONLY Swiss.

Tom
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