Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Help & tips > Other/general
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 24.10.2017, 12:33
Newbie
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: ireland
Posts: 5
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
mcglic has no particular reputation at present
Small Claims Court in Switzerland

Hi All,
Can you help me please.
I am looking to present a small claims action against Viagogo in relation to a ticket fiasco we had with them for the U2 concert in Dublin, Ireland. I have been told by the Irsish consuler agency that I need to made a claim against Viagogo under Swiss law. I have done some research on the way to do this and found a thread on English Forum Switzerland which was informative but the links to the various sites are no longer valid.

Thus can someone advise how to progress with a small claim action under Swiss law.

Thanks in advance.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 24.10.2017, 12:58
aSwissInTheUS's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Zurich area
Posts: 8,985
Groaned at 72 Times in 63 Posts
Thanked 13,304 Times in 5,957 Posts
aSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Small Claims Court in Switzerland

viagogo AG
Address: Boulevard Georges Favon 43, 1204 Geneva, Switzerland
Company Number: CH-270.3.014.628-0
VAT Registration Number: CHE-247.099.716 MWST
http://ge.ch/hrcintapp/externalCompa...ofrcLanguage=1

You will either have to go through the Justice of the peace: http://ge.ch/justice/justice-de-paix
or if they owe you money start a pursuit: http://ge.ch/opf/
or sue at the lower court http://ge.ch/justice/tribunal-de-premiere-instance

All procedures will be done in French only.
The relevant law regarding contract and fulfillment is the Swiss Code of Obligations https://www.admin.ch/opc/en/classifi...009/index.html
and to some lesser extended the Swiss Civil Code https://www.admin.ch/opc/en/classifi...042/index.html
(Links to English versions)

For the justice of the peace you have to appear in person.

A pursuit can be started from aboard but if contested it will lead to a court case, which may or may not be handled by mail only (No court appearance).
The process is laid down in the SchKG https://www.admin.ch/opc/de/classifi...002/index.html Available in German, French, and Italian only.

To be able to sue at the lower court you may have to go to the justice of peace first. This may not be needed if you sue from aboard (I do not know that). The whole process may or may not be done by mail only (No court appearance).
The process is laid down in the Civil Procedure Code https://www.admin.ch/opc/en/classifi...121/index.html

The lower court is also the competent cantonal central authority in accordance with:
• The Hague Convention on the Service Abroad of Judicial and Extrajudicial Documents in Civil or Commercial Matters of 15 November 1965
• The Hague Convention on the Taking of Evidence Abroad in Civil or Commercial Matters of 18 march 1970
• The Hague Convention on International Access to Justice of 25 october 1980
• European Agreement no. 92 on The Transmission of Applications for Legal Aid of 27 january 1977
__________________
PLAYER 1 ENTER YOUR NAME:_
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank aSwissInTheUS for this useful post:
  #3  
Old 24.10.2017, 13:07
Newbie
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: ireland
Posts: 5
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
mcglic has no particular reputation at present
Re: Small Claims Court in Switzerland

Thank you very much.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 11.12.2017, 00:08
Newbie
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: London
Posts: 2
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
jonwest has no particular reputation at present
Re: Small Claims Court in Switzerland

Hi
Did you ever resolve this? I have an issue with Viagogo too. I have actually issued small claims proceedings in the UK with a London address I googled. Bizarrely a solicitor wrote back saying that Viagogo had instructed them, but weren't registered at that address (seems like a lot of hassle if they aren't registered). Anyway I wrote back to the solicitor but they have not responded. And as we are over the time period the judgement has gone in my favour... Worthless if I cannot get the money. I am claiming less than 100 but for me it is the principle that they cannot get away with treating customers so badly. I am keen to take matters further, to court in Switzerland if I have to. Also thinking about MP.
Jonathan
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 11.12.2017, 10:18
Newbie
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: ireland
Posts: 5
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
mcglic has no particular reputation at present
Re: Small Claims Court in Switzerland

Hi Jonathon,
No I didn't and the reason being that I was struggling with the Swiss application process as it is in French. I would be really interested to hear how you managed the process?

They are a serious bunch of operators and really horribly difficult to deal with.

Best Regards,
Niall
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 11.12.2017, 19:26
Newbie
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: London
Posts: 2
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
jonwest has no particular reputation at present
Re: Small Claims Court in Switzerland

Hi Niall

They really are a shocking company and no surprise they are registered in Switzerland, where I am quickly discovering they are untouchable by any EU/EEA legal process. As the earlier response on here noted any legal proceedings are going to be in French and will probably need to take place in Switzerland. All very crafty. I purchased some tickets from them in the summer (I actually don't 'mind' the convenience of paying more to get to events that are sold out) but then couldn't go so had to relist them. All over the website it says that you are not charged to relist tickets purchased from them, so I ignored the 'sellers fees' assuming they would not be applied when I sold the tickets. I managed to sell the tickets (not covering my original outlay but I wasn't doing this to make money) and then I ticked something saying I wasn't ready to ship (as I hadn't got the tickets myself yet). There is no warning, or at least not buried in small print or T&Cs somewhere, but as soon as you say you cannot ship the listing is removed yet you are still charged a fee for the inconvenience of them having to find other tickets for the buyer. A joke. So I entered into an email battle with them, with stock replies from them and then eventually silence. I think I sold the ticket for 110 and ended up with just over 30. It is a scam.
I have issued proceedings in the UK small claims and 'won' but I am not sure how/if this can be enforced if they don't have a UK address!! Not sure if you have seen this...

https://www.theguardian.com/money/20...viagogo-office

I think I am going to write to my MP next!
Wherever you look on internet/twitter etc there are so many unhappy customers. It's a real shame because an 'honourable' resale site is fine. I just object to the appalling customer services and the way they clearly arrogantly are abusing customers and see themselves as above the law....
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 12.12.2017, 10:00
Newbie
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: ireland
Posts: 5
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
mcglic has no particular reputation at present
Re: Small Claims Court in Switzerland

Thanks J.

Is there anyone out there that has actually gone through the Swiss procedure?

Given the amount of dissatisfied customers surely there is some-one that can deal with this. Its time this company was brought to task formally through the correct legal process.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 12.12.2017, 10:26
Mica's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Zurich
Posts: 694
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 862 Times in 377 Posts
Mica has a reputation beyond reputeMica has a reputation beyond reputeMica has a reputation beyond reputeMica has a reputation beyond reputeMica has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Small Claims Court in Switzerland

Since this would be a consumer-related dispute you might have jurisdiction at your place of residence under the Lugano Convention 2007 (Art. 16 LugC), but it depends on how they are marketing their services in Ireland (cf. Art. 15 LugC).

You would still need to enforce any judgment you obtain in Switzerland but there again the Lugano Convention 2007 is your friend, since it envisages a simplified recognition and enforcement proceeding.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 12.12.2017, 10:44
Newbie
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: ireland
Posts: 5
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
mcglic has no particular reputation at present
Re: Small Claims Court in Switzerland

Sounds interesting. I'll have to do some study on this.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 16.01.2018, 13:15
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: London
Posts: 2
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
sjjhr has no particular reputation at present
Re: Small Claims Court in Switzerland

Hello all, I live in the UK and have a similar problem with Viagogo in that (i) the website entraps you into completing the transaction when you try to cancel it (ii) they don't list the seller's profile, contrary to EU law (iii) worst of all, they're committing fraud by re-selling tickets to Ed Sheehan when they know they won't be honoured because Sheeran's management has forbidden them from doing so. Did anyone get anywhere in either the UK or Switzerland please? I want to take them all the way to court. Thanks
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 16.01.2018, 13:17
Spinal's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Zurich
Posts: 573
Groaned at 3 Times in 2 Posts
Thanked 478 Times in 217 Posts
Spinal has an excellent reputationSpinal has an excellent reputationSpinal has an excellent reputationSpinal has an excellent reputation
Re: Small Claims Court in Switzerland

Quote:
View Post
(ii) they don't list the seller's profile, contrary to EU law
Switzerland is not in the EU... and neither will the UK soon...
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 16.01.2018, 13:22
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: London
Posts: 2
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
sjjhr has no particular reputation at present
Re: Small Claims Court in Switzerland

No CH is not in the EU, but without going through their whole legal equivalence/acquis, the same rules might apply for cross border sales where the act of sale is arguably occurring in the EU (ie the UK in my case because I bought the tickets on Viagogo.co.uk. Happy if anyone wants to correct me.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank sjjhr for this useful post:
  #13  
Old 16.01.2018, 13:24
grumpygrapefruit's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Zuriwest
Posts: 5,764
Groaned at 37 Times in 36 Posts
Thanked 14,613 Times in 3,814 Posts
grumpygrapefruit has a reputation beyond reputegrumpygrapefruit has a reputation beyond reputegrumpygrapefruit has a reputation beyond reputegrumpygrapefruit has a reputation beyond reputegrumpygrapefruit has a reputation beyond reputegrumpygrapefruit has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Small Claims Court in Switzerland

Quote:
View Post
No CH is not in the EU, but without going through their whole legal equivalence/acquis, the same rules might apply for cross border sales where the act of sale is arguably occurring in the EU (ie the UK in my case because I bought the tickets on Viagogo.co.uk. Happy if anyone wants to correct me.
I'm pretty sure you're correct, but I guess they based themselves in CH just to make it difficult for customers or the authorities to chase them. Good luck, it seems like they are not very nice people.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank grumpygrapefruit for this useful post:
  #14  
Old 16.05.2018, 00:45
Newbie
 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: London
Posts: 1
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
harrytbdn has no particular reputation at present
Re: Small Claims Court in Switzerland

Did anyone have any luck with this? I am not sure which of the three options given I am meant to go for. My French is limited but I am determined to see my case through...
Reply With Quote
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Small Claims Court German Law Nottoobright General off-topic 5 28.06.2017 14:08
Small claims court in Germany PanFastic Other/general 2 29.03.2017 22:01
Small claims court AdN Other/general 13 11.09.2012 13:57
Swiss Small Claims Court acf69 Other/general 6 06.05.2011 12:30
Small Claims court? Pix Business & entrepreneur 5 30.05.2007 13:03


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 05:11.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0