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Old 06.11.2017, 23:38
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Re: Increasingly frustrated working mom

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I did of course. It's around 1.6 for Swiss and 1.85 for non-Swiss. Well below the desired 2.1. Just because it is up from the abysmal overall 1.3 in the early 2000s doesn't mean it's enough, let alone does it mean the conservative system and attitudes are working or are in any way desirable. Which was Brian's point.
I think there are non-Swiss and non-Swiss hehe.

Check out the European birth rates, the situation is much more catastrophic than in CH

Interesting article here, I was right about the French and it was just my personal observation
https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...fertility-rate
\http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statist...oman)_YB17.png

The "secret" according to the Guardian:

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France’s baby boom secret: get women into work and ditch rigid family norms
....

Last edited by greenmount; 06.11.2017 at 23:51.
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  #62  
Old 07.11.2017, 10:51
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Re: Increasingly frustrated working mom

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I am sorry for the novel. I guess what I am trying to say is: there is nobody in the world I am prouder of, my hard-working mom is a great role model, my best coach and the best professional advisor in my career over the years. I am proud of her because she was a leader and showed me that yes, you can do it. Keep your head high and pursue the career - your 4yo daughter as well as her sisters will forget about the stupid play-dates, but won't forget about their kick ass mom in the long run. Tell them, show them, explain it to them - kids understand more than we give them credit for.
You are right of course! I grew up in a small town in rural Canada that my parents moved to as newlyweds. As we weren't "from" the area, I never felt like I belonged throughout my entire childhood . My mom (who worked) always told me not to worry, I was destined to move on to great things -- which I guess I did. I went to university (where I met my life-long friends) and never looked back. At 34, I can already say that I've led a full and adventurous life And this is definitely what I wish for my kids -- that their childhood is a launching pad for a full, happy and fulfilled life, both personally and professionally. I do feel that my example as a working mom will probably help them in their later life... but in the mean time I'd like them to have a happy childhood too!
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  #63  
Old 07.11.2017, 12:34
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Re: Increasingly frustrated working mom

Quality thread, thanks OP.

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That. I wonder how many of the mums you know wish it was economically viable for them to work so that their lives didn't completely revolve around their kids.
Curiously, there are a fair few who could work but don't. Path of least resistance. You'll likely find the hardest criticism from those unable to justify why they hire nannies / domestic help and still find time to mope about at home while Hubby brings home the bacon.

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Keep your job if that fullfils you, this is so obvious - money is not everything.
Why do you care so much about what other moms think? Picture them as some sort of Stepford Wives.. Smile, be nice, that's all. Of course, be careful not to offend them with your opinions...they'll let you be...
Something I've noticed in Zurich especially is the amount of sheer, bloody moaning of the pampered wives. You'd think with all the liberty their privileged lifestyle allows they'd be the most positive, creative souls. But as Sandgrounder mentioned, you can't live others' lives for them.

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Disagree - playdates seem to be a construction of very deliberate 21st century parenting. I remember as a child telling my mother who I would be playing with, or we met by chance at the playground. It is a pity that parents have taken such controlling roles in engineering what should ideally be an organic part of childhood and growing up. I know my daughter suffered because the mothers of her classmates didn’t “approve” of me, but seemingly my lifestyle choices were not threatening from the perspective of a boy’s mother so my son fared fine. Go figure
Kids aren't allowed to be bored anymore. Oh look, an iPad. I remember being bored to distraction as a kid, which is exactly the point of boredom. Once distracted, I'd usually find someone else to get into trouble with by actually going outside and meeting them. So many parents I know worry their kids have few friends, if any, while at the same time helicoptering their every move.

The bushes are not full of paedos. Kick your kids out with a CHF5 coin and your contact info written somewhere and tell 'em to come home at dusk.

OP: paddle your own canoe. Your kids will be fine. Drop the guilt; it's not a positive force. Your kids will be fine if you're fine. Too many mothers forget this and end up in Stepford.
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Old 07.11.2017, 12:52
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Re: Increasingly frustrated working mom

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Something I've noticed in Zurich especially is the amount of sheer, bloody moaning of the pampered wives. You'd think with all the liberty their privileged lifestyle allows they'd be the most positive, creative souls. But as Sandgrounder mentioned, you can't live others' lives for them.
You speak from my heart in this!


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OP: paddle your own canoe. Your kids will be fine. Drop the guilt; it's not a positive force. Your kids will be fine if you're fine. Too many mothers forget this and end up in Stepford.
Yes, that's what I meant when I asked why OP felt guilty.
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  #65  
Old 07.11.2017, 13:24
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Re: Increasingly frustrated working mom

How did 18 years pass without my ever having the privilege to meet Mom Guilt?

guess she didn’t like my appearance at the school gates..
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  #66  
Old 07.11.2017, 13:50
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Re: Increasingly frustrated working mom

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How did 18 years pass without my ever having the privilege to meet Mom Guilt?
Lol, a simple reason - I just had no time.

Second guessing and wanting to do things well, it is completely normal in anything we do.

However, I don't think I even have the time to compare myself to others for other reasons than inspiration.

When people figure out their judgment says more about them than me and that I couldn't care less (en plus, perfection is not my priority) - they quit wasting time to judge, usually.
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Old 07.11.2017, 14:01
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Re: Increasingly frustrated working mom

As an old-fashioned SAHM who was happy in this role, I think the idea of 'us' and 'them' should be completely left out of discussions on bringing up children.

Last edited by Longbyt; 07.11.2017 at 20:09. Reason: Typo
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  #68  
Old 07.11.2017, 14:25
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Re: Increasingly frustrated working mom

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As an old-fashioned SAHM who was happy in this role, I think the idea of 'us' and 'them' should be comletely left out of discussions on bringing up children.
That's a good point, Longbyt. And/or teach children that there is not just one line that divides, but myriad lines which show how some people are similar, and which separate people into categories.

The lines exist both in things we can choose, and things that are given and cannot be changed. Examples are schools, employment, types of sport, racial origin, gender, sexual orientation, religious affiliation, personal ethics, languages spoken, clothes worn, foods enjoyed, games played, number of living grandparents, number of pets, etc.

Lots of lines demarkate "them" and "us". I think it is important to teach children that. And also that, since our personal beings and societal connections have so many options and permuations, we keep connecting as "us" to yet other group of people.
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  #69  
Old 07.11.2017, 18:23
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Re: Increasingly frustrated working mom

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As an old-fashioned SAHM who was happy in this role, I think the idea of 'us' and 'them' should be comletely left out of discussions on bringing up children.
Indeed! This is not how I try to view things and was definitely not the intention of my original post, which was the result of an accumulation of varying frustrations.
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