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-   -   Nestle cuts 580 IT/Logistics jobs in Swiss Romande (https://www.englishforum.ch/other-general/284057-nestle-cuts-580-logistics-jobs-swiss-romande.html)

roegner 02.09.2018 10:00

Re: Nestle cuts 580 IT/Logistics jobs in Swiss Romande
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Fish Paste (Post 2987310)

I see it where I work, a sea of grey haired people, half of whom have been there for donkeys years, and could be replaced by lower cost, higher performing people.

Out of interest, how do you know the grey haired people are not performing?

And why would the younger ones - with less experience - be so much better?

Fish Paste 02.09.2018 10:48

Re: Nestle cuts 580 IT/Logistics jobs in Swiss Romande
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by roegner (Post 2987311)
Out of interest, how do you know the grey haired people are not performing?

And why would the younger ones - with less experience - be so much better?

I have to work with a lot of them, and I can see it, I experience it everyday.

They, including me, have a lot of experience, and 'do the do', but when in meetings with the remote sites, you can also see they are way ahead in innovation, new technologies, enthusiasm etc.
All in vogue topics with the company, with any company on the global stage.

Older people, in general, don't want to be part of the evolution, don't want to be on 'death march' projects, don't want to do the overtime etc.

They've done it all before.

Don't get me wrong, obviously just because someone is getting on a bit doesn't mean they can't walk the walk and embrace 'the new'.
But 30+ years doing the same sh1te takes the gloss of it.

I'm talking from a corporate perspective, and IT.

And now I have to walk the dog!

Guest 02.09.2018 13:02

Re: Nestle cuts 580 IT/Logistics jobs in Swiss Romande
 
Younger ones certainly are far cheaper, the problem arises when something goes wrong and you then need the experienced ones to sort it out.


It's very short sighted to get rid of experience !


From what i understand in Nestle, morale is very low currently, a lot of good people have already left or been offered jobs elsewhere and left is a demoralized second class workforce not knowing whether they have a job or not at the end of the week.

Mikers 02.09.2018 13:17

Re: Nestle cuts 580 IT/Logistics jobs in Swiss Romande
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Fish Paste (Post 2987316)
I have to work with a lot of them, and I can see it, I experience it everyday.

They, including me, have a lot of experience, and 'do the do', but when in meetings with the remote sites, you can also see they are way ahead in innovation, new technologies, enthusiasm etc.
All in vogue topics with the company, with any company on the global stage.

Older people, in general, don't want to be part of the evolution, don't want to be on 'death march' projects, don't want to do the overtime etc.

They've done it all before.

Don't get me wrong, obviously just because someone is getting on a bit doesn't mean they can't walk the walk and embrace 'the new'.
But 30+ years doing the same sh1te takes the gloss of it.

I'm talking from a corporate perspective, and IT.

And now I have to walk the dog!

And this is what nestle hopes to achieve here. Getting rid of old expensive employees and replacing them with younger, more energetic and of course lower cost ones.

Itís a very interesting and philosophical argument. There are many walks of life where the energy and enthusiasm of the younger generation is a must have, however there are other (think something like having a joint replacement, or other surgery) where your first question isnít how energetic and enthusiastic the doctor is but normally what experience do they have.

If nestle get this right and end up with a low cost high performance workforce in Spain and Italy then hats off to them, but it is considerable risk. We are already massively outsourced and those outsourced staff are normally young, energetic people however they still need direction and guidance from a few people who have been round the block. Itís how many of those you still need thatís the question.

The other key point is itís not just employees that are he subject here, itís the technology. 10years ago IT was very different to what it is now, and will be transformed again in 10years time. What may have cost 150k in 2008 May now not require as much brilliance and has become commodity in which case it would not commend such a premium salary, however new areas may even charge more than before.

Amidst the mixture of feelings that occur when these kind of things occur itís often said that salaries like those at nestle are too high for IT, but do keep in mind what the Swiss piece of nestle IT is doing. It is not help desk or even support, it is the landscape design for 350,000 people spread fully across the globe.

While it can be said this is easily done from low cost locations, keep some common human behavior in mind: if I can earn 35000 euros Doing this in Spain and am a young person with bags of talent and can happily design global solutions for global companies, and this skill will earn m 135,000 euroís if I move country, to Switzerland, London, Frankfurt or Paris, then why would I stay in Spain ? Employee attrition is not generally a problem In Switzerland because the pay keeps people at the company. At lower cost locations if you are offered 5k more from the company next door you might take it and thatís a risk, because it takes a long time to learn the landscape of any huge company.

Anyway, itís an interesting time in IT globally, There are many views and opinions on where we will be 10 years from now.

Fish Paste 02.09.2018 16:10

Re: Nestle cuts 580 IT/Logistics jobs in Swiss Romande
 
It's a balancing act.

I think the management still see IT as an expense and a commodity, that can go to the cheapest reputable suppliers.
I've friends who have moved from IT and into 'the business', and they report that the business really do not give a flying feck about who is delivering their IT.

As an aside, my company has IT in Madrid, no issues with staff retention, nor quality.
Same for Poland and Hungary.

It's a different matter with the outsource companies and contractors, but who really cares?

NotAllThere 02.09.2018 16:44

Re: Nestle cuts 580 IT/Logistics jobs in Swiss Romande
 
I did some consultancy work about 15 years ago for a large retail company. What I pointed out to management was that they were haemorrhaging detailed knowledge of the software underpinning their business.

The issue was thus:

Developers were, in the offshore culture, on the lowest rung of the ladder. Therefore, anyone who was any good would eventually move into more business analysis work, or into management, being driven by the desire for more money and not being treated quite so much as scum. That meant, by and large, that the most able developers had around 2 years experience. If a developer had more than that, then the chances were high that they hadn't moved on due to not being very good.

The result was that for any development more than about 4 years old, there simply were no competent people around who had technical knowledge of it. To me, this is the IT equivalent of senility. Important information and know-how - the IT wisdom of the company, if you will - is lost. It is massively more expensive to have to figure out how some oldish suite of programs works from scratch, than to have at least some continuity of workforce.

Btw - documentation and handovers are myths invented to make managers feel more secure. They're very rarely of any help.

I've had cause to work on programs I developed over 10 years earlier. Sure, I don't remember all the details, but the overall shape of it is retained, and I'm up to speed very quickly.

Employing young bright things at nice low wages is all very well, but as soon as they've got some experience - they'll be off. The company's senility issue remains.

Dack Rambo 02.09.2018 18:32

Re: Nestle cuts 580 IT/Logistics jobs in Swiss Romande
 
Being offshored to Barcelona is not so bad. There are worse places that you could go.

speakeron 02.09.2018 18:51

Re: Nestle cuts 580 IT/Logistics jobs in Swiss Romande
 
Their yoghurt is really crap as well.

Mikers 02.09.2018 19:26

Re: Nestle cuts 580 IT/Logistics jobs in Swiss Romande
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dack Rambo (Post 2987462)
Being offshored to Barcelona is not so bad. There are worse places that you could go.

For the singles or married renters this is indeed true. With many of us having children in local schools and having bought a house or apartment and be part of our local villages then itís not as straightforward.

Guest 02.09.2018 19:42

Re: Nestle cuts 580 IT/Logistics jobs in Swiss Romande
 
Property prices are already falling in the area, wait another couple of years and we'll be down 10-15% is my guess.


Second hand Volvo's will also be abundant too (favoured car of Nescafs)

DerDieDas 02.09.2018 20:57

Re: Nestle cuts 580 IT/Logistics jobs in Swiss Romande
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by NotAllThere (Post 2987419)
Developers were, in the offshore culture, on the lowest rung of the ladder. Therefore, anyone who was any good would eventually move into more business analysis work, or into management, being driven by the desire for more money and not being treated quite so much as scum. That meant, by and large, that the most able developers had around 2 years experience. If a developer had more than that, then the chances were high that they hadn't moved on due to not being very good.

I hope what you mean here is that what you say in the later sentences holds for the countries in the first sentence of this paragraph. Because in my experience, people who move onto business analysis from software development are those who are not very good developers and who cannot cope with the difficulty of both understanding the business requirement and correctly implementing a software solution for it.

JoshWilliams 11.09.2018 07:17

Re: Nestle cuts 580 IT/Logistics jobs in Swiss Romande
 
Quote:

From what i understand in Nestle, morale is very low currently, a lot of good people have already left or been offered jobs elsewhere and left is a demoralized second class workforce not knowing whether they have a job or not at the end of the week.
This story is now three months old but nobody reported having being actually fired so far. Are they also getting rid of SAP teams in Plan-Dessus? And what about team leads, will they keep on managing near- and offshore consultants via Skype?

Mikers 14.09.2018 19:20

Re: Nestle cuts 580 IT/Logistics jobs in Swiss Romande
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JoshWilliams (Post 2990352)
This story is now three months old but nobody reported having being actually fired so far. Are they also getting rid of SAP teams in Plan-Dessus? And what about team leads, will they keep on managing near- and offshore consultants via Skype?

Hello. We have been in the employee consultation period which ended a couple of weeks ago. During this period nestle modified their plan so that 150 will stay not 100, this was in the news.

Now we are crunch time. Next week all affected employees will have their 1:2:1 with hr and be told when they will be dismissed. However much you prepare or are confident this will be horrIble and will hurt. The future will then Be concrete: we will know , myself included, when I am dismissed as an actual date.

Regarding who will stay most are out. It does t matter if it’s leads, design, sap or skype everyone is being kicked out with exception of the chosen few who are mainly the very senior leads who led us into this mess and are now suddenly seen as the best bet to get us out, which personally i think is wrong they should go down with the ship.

Jobs in Barcelona and Italy will provide the replacement workforce for us as is publicly known.

gaburko 14.09.2018 21:26

Re: Nestle cuts 580 IT/Logistics jobs in Swiss Romande
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Fish Paste (Post 2987316)

I'm talking from a corporate perspective, and IT.

If you're young and doing IT in a non-IT company it basically means you're not really good in IT. If you were, you would be in Google. So, my advice is, listen more, learn more and get as much as possible out from the guys with experience. It will help you very very soon

Mikers 14.09.2018 21:48

Re: Nestle cuts 580 IT/Logistics jobs in Swiss Romande
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by gaburko (Post 2991769)
If you're young and doing IT in a non-IT company it basically means you're not really good in IT. If you were, you would be in Google. So, my advice is, listen more, learn more and get as much as possible out from the guys with experience. It will help you very very soon

I really think you have some more learning to do here yourself. Many IT companies are low skill - take avanade, Accenture, wipro, techm for pure It companies renowned for having lower skilled employees. Take any number of non IT firms and look at their staff and you have some of the best in the business. Classic examples such as investment banks, law firms, multinationals of any discipline have highly talented people of all ages. It’s slightly naive to use google as an example, it would rather be like saying your a bit thick if you didn’t go to oxford or Cambridge.

gaburko 14.09.2018 22:27

Re: Nestle cuts 580 IT/Logistics jobs in Swiss Romande
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mikers (Post 2991770)
Itís slightly naive to use google as an example

naive?! Really :)
If you're good, you're in google for 300k starting. If you're average you're in accenture for 150k and if you're below average you're in corporate for <120k starting.

Mikers 14.09.2018 22:57

Re: Nestle cuts 580 IT/Logistics jobs in Swiss Romande
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by gaburko (Post 2991773)
naive?! Really :)
If you're good, you're in google for 300k starting. If you're average you're in accenture for 150k and if you're below average you're in corporate for <120k starting.

Something I really like about the internet is itís persistent. I hope EF makes it forward another 10 years and beyond and you will have the opportunity to look back at the things you say when you are at the different stages of life.

If you are at google on tonnes of wedge very well done to you and thatís genuinely meant - it is a select and very very talented set of people that work there.

NotAllThere 15.09.2018 08:30

Re: Nestle cuts 580 IT/Logistics jobs in Swiss Romande
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by gaburko (Post 2991773)
naive?! Really :)

Oh yes. And a bit ignorant as well.
Quote:

If you're good, you're in google for 300k starting. If you're average you're in accenture for 150k and if you're below average you're in corporate for <120k starting.
:rofl:

I've worked with Accenture consultants (and other Big 4 or 5) for the past 20 years. Average is something generally way beyond their capabities.

And I know many people in corporate abd not even in management who are on way over 120k.

JoshWilliams 18.09.2018 22:15

Re: Nestle cuts 580 IT/Logistics jobs in Swiss Romande
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mikers (Post 2991753)
Now we are crunch time. Next week all affected employees will have their 1:2:1 with hr and be told when they will be dismissed. However much you prepare or are confident this will be horrIble and will hurt. The future will then Be concrete: we will know , myself included, when I am dismissed as an actual date.
Regarding who will stay most are out. It does t matter if itís leads, design, sap or skype everyone is being kicked out with exception of the chosen few who are mainly the very senior leads who led us into this mess and are now suddenly seen as the best bet to get us out, which personally i think is wrong they should go down with the ship.

Sorry to hear that mate, did not intend to excruciate (been through something similar myself ages ago). Fingers crossed you'll be graced, anyway you'll survive ;) and indeed these things suck because it's all down to those years and years of crazy spending done by a bunch of dumb managers who don't give a sh*t about delivering actual solutions, just talking disrupting fantasy visions all the time. These are the kings of costly IT and their longevity is proverbial.

Chuff 19.09.2018 07:49

Re: Nestle cuts 580 IT/Logistics jobs in Swiss Romande
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mikers (Post 2991753)
Hello. We have been in the employee consultation period which ended a couple of weeks ago. During this period nestle modified their plan so that 150 will stay not 100, this was in the news.

Now we are crunch time. Next week all affected employees will have their 1:2:1 with hr and be told when they will be dismissed. However much you prepare or are confident this will be horrIble and will hurt. The future will then Be concrete: we will know , myself included, when I am dismissed as an actual date.

Regarding who will stay most are out. It does t matter if it’s leads, design, sap or skype everyone is being kicked out with exception of the chosen few who are mainly the very senior leads who led us into this mess and are now suddenly seen as the best bet to get us out, which personally i think is wrong they should go down with the ship.

Jobs in Barcelona and Italy will provide the replacement workforce for us as is publicly known.

Sorry to hear that mate, it is tough as hell when a company decides to do this and I have a feeling that it's a shorter-term strategy than many companies realise, because as other companies begin to flock to the "cheaper" countries then as a result the average salary and job opportunities rise in those countries, meaning higher staff turnover as well as steadily increasing costs.

If many Swiss companies had actually budgeted sensibly in the last couple of decades instead of spending willy-nilly then it may not have ever been needed on this scale, but that is speculation on my part.

Anyway, I wish you luck for the future.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gaburko (Post 2991769)
If you're young and doing IT in a non-IT company it basically means you're not really good in IT. If you were, you would be in Google. So, my advice is, listen more, learn more and get as much as possible out from the guys with experience. It will help you very very soon

You're truly a hilariously arrogant twit, with, I am guessing from the level of emotional intelligence on display, a touch of aspergers.

thalcave 19.09.2018 08:30

Re: Nestle cuts 580 IT/Logistics jobs in Swiss Romande
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by gaburko (Post 2991773)
naive?! Really :)
If you're good, you're in google for 300k starting. If you're average you're in accenture for 150k and if you're below average you're in corporate for <120k starting.

This is so stupid. There are +100k of people in IT, and Google hires 2% of them. You're saying that 98% are average?

bigblue2 19.09.2018 09:14

Re: Nestle cuts 580 IT/Logistics jobs in Swiss Romande
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by gaburko (Post 2991769)
If you're young and doing IT in a non-IT company it basically means you're not really good in IT. If you were, you would be in Google. So, my advice is, listen more, learn more and get as much as possible out from the guys with experience. It will help you very very soon

ah bless you, I'm sure you'll be at google once you finish uni in a couple of years

Guest 19.09.2018 10:49

Re: Nestle cuts 580 IT/Logistics jobs in Swiss Romande
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bigblue2 (Post 2993086)
ah bless you, I'm sure you'll be at google once you finish uni in a couple of years


You've got that the wrong way round my friend, he'll be at Uni once he's finished up with Google :D:D:D


(again, serving at the staff canteen)

gbn 19.09.2018 12:16

Re: Nestle cuts 580 IT/Logistics jobs in Swiss Romande
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by gaburko (Post 2991769)
If you're young and doing IT in a non-IT company it basically means you're not really good in IT. If you were, you would be in Google. So, my advice is, listen more, learn more and get as much as possible out from the guys with experience. It will help you very very soon

You don't work at Google: you wouldn't be allowed to post such rubbish.
They're very touchy about brand perception.

You can have that attitude privately: the attitude is exactly why very good IT people don't want to work at Google.

I know people there who don't like it at all but they're trapped because of the salary despite the lack of work/life balance and other trappings of normalcy.

Chuff 19.09.2018 12:28

Re: Nestle cuts 580 IT/Logistics jobs in Swiss Romande
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by gbn (Post 2993169)
You don't work at Google: you wouldn't be allowed to post such rubbish.
They're very touchy about brand perception.

You can have that attitude privately: the attitude is exactly why very good IT people don't want to work at Google.

I know people there who don't like it at all but they're trapped because of the salary despite the lack of work/life balance and other trappings of normalcy.

i agree with the majority of your post but no-one is 'trapped' because a salary... it is fully someone's choice to work there and in the end they have to decide what their own priorities are.

thalcave 19.09.2018 12:50

Re: Nestle cuts 580 IT/Logistics jobs in Swiss Romande
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by gbn (Post 2993169)
You don't work at Google: you wouldn't be allowed to post such rubbish.
You can have that attitude privately: the attitude is exactly why very good IT people don't want to work at Google.

I know very good IT people (some of them brilliant) who love working at Google.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gbn (Post 2993169)
they're trapped because of the salary despite the lack of work/life balance and other trappings of normalcy.

I'd say that the work / life balance is not worse than the average Swiss company. And the Googlers have a lot of perks (and much bigger salary, of course).

gbn 19.09.2018 12:51

Re: Nestle cuts 580 IT/Logistics jobs in Swiss Romande
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Chuff (Post 2993172)
i agree with the majority of your post but no-one is 'trapped' because a salary... it is fully someone's choice to work there and in the end they have to decide what their own priorities are.

I mean trapped in the sense of they live within the superior salary (bigger apartment, whizzy car lease, etc) and can't accept downgrading.

Yes it's their choice, but humans are irrational meatsacks who back ourselves into corners all too readily...

Chuff 19.09.2018 12:57

Re: Nestle cuts 580 IT/Logistics jobs in Swiss Romande
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by gbn (Post 2993178)
I mean trapped in the sense of they live within the superior salary (bigger apartment, whizzy car lease, etc) and can't accept downgrading.

Yes it's their choice, but humans are irrational meatsacks who back ourselves into corners all too readily...

Ok then let me revise my statement to: "I feel zero sympathy for anyone in that situation". :p

Quote:

Originally Posted by roegner (Post 2987311)
Out of interest, how do you know the grey haired people are not performing?

And why would the younger ones - with less experience - be so much better?

Just seen this. I think (and I speak objectively here) that this is a problem that a fair few Swiss companies suffer from with regards to some middle-aged staff who have been there for decades. Reduced drive and performance and unwillingness to change, basically by their own admission waiting out their retirement and in doing so blocking promotion chances for younger staff.

Obviously this is not the case for everyone, but it is definitely a reality.

thekman 19.09.2018 16:59

Re: Nestle cuts 580 IT/Logistics jobs in Swiss Romande
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Chuff (Post 2993181)
Ok then let me revise my statement to: "I feel zero sympathy for anyone in that situation". :p



Just seen this. I think (and I speak objectively here) that this is a problem that a fair few Swiss companies suffer from with regards to some middle-aged staff who have been there for decades. Reduced drive and performance and unwillingness to change, basically by their own admission waiting out their retirement and in doing so blocking promotion chances for younger staff.

Obviously this is not the case for everyone, but it is definitely a reality.

From what I've seen working with a number of clients, you've hit the nail on the head with that second statement...usually leads to drastic moves like the one from Nestle when often it would have made sense to gradually change and move the scene along earlier on...surely everyone could see the impending train that was coming? Where people were being grossly overpaid for a job which was becoming largely commoditised and evolving...it's a joint responsibility of employers and employees to recognise they needed to respond in some way IMO

VFR on top 19.09.2018 19:58

Re: Nestle cuts 580 IT/Logistics jobs in Swiss Romande
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by thalcave (Post 2993073)
This is so stupid. There are +100k of people in IT, and Google hires 2% of them. You're saying that 98% are average?

98% didn't pass the political spectrum qualification test.

Mikers 19.09.2018 21:00

Re: Nestle cuts 580 IT/Logistics jobs in Swiss Romande
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by thekman (Post 2993319)
From what I've seen working with a number of clients, you've hit the nail on the head with that second statement...usually leads to drastic moves like the one from Nestle when often it would have made sense to gradually change and move the scene along earlier on...surely everyone could see the impending train that was coming? Where people were being grossly overpaid for a job which was becoming largely commoditised and evolving...it's a joint responsibility of employers and employees to recognise they needed to respond in some way IMO

It does hit to the heart of the idea: nestle is stating that IT has changed and can now be run by younger people from a cheaper location. If they are right, they will save millions, if wrong it will cost them many times that. Of course like global warming we will never know the other outcome as only one path will be experienced but I will watch with interest to see what happens - albeit from outside the company.

Dandy 20.09.2018 07:49

Re: Nestle cuts 580 IT/Logistics jobs in Swiss Romande
 
ďA man wants to earn money in order to be happy, and his whole effort and the best of a life are devoted to the earning of that money. Happiness is forgotten; the means are taken for the end.Ē
― Albert Camus

Guest 20.09.2018 07:57

Re: Nestle cuts 580 IT/Logistics jobs in Swiss Romande
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mikers (Post 2993386)
It does hit to the heart of the idea: nestle is stating that IT has changed and can now be run by younger people from a cheaper location. If they are right, they will save millions, if wrong it will cost them many times that. Of course like global warming we will never know the other outcome as only one path will be experienced but I will watch with interest to see what happens - albeit from outside the company.




Tough luck, have a look at Ch‚tel St-Denis, plenty of companies moving up there, including one building in front of Landi.....

NotAllThere 20.09.2018 09:41

Re: Nestle cuts 580 IT/Logistics jobs in Swiss Romande
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Chuff (Post 2993181)
Just seen this. I think (and I speak objectively here) that this is a problem that a fair few Swiss companies suffer from with regards to some middle-aged staff who have been there for decades. Reduced drive and performance and unwillingness to change, basically by their own admission waiting out their retirement and in doing so blocking promotion chances for younger staff.

The long serving old staff are also in the google "trap" in thse companies. They've had regular payrises and increments, and now have a salary they could not get if they had to apply for a new job in another company.

Chuff 20.09.2018 10:28

Re: Nestle cuts 580 IT/Logistics jobs in Swiss Romande
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by NotAllThere (Post 2993502)
The long serving old staff are also in the google "trap" in thse companies. They've had regular payrises and increments, and now have a salary they could not get if they had to apply for a new job in another company.

Not only that, but I have met a few that have become so institutionalised and so used to cruising along saying and doing what they want (within reason) that imo they would struggle with how to behave in a new company and the thought of applying for a new role outside of the company terrifies them. I am not even sure that some of that minority would be able to perform to the baseline level in many modern and more dynamic companies.

Treverus 20.09.2018 10:34

Re: Nestle cuts 580 IT/Logistics jobs in Swiss Romande
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DerDieDas (Post 2987512)
I hope what you mean here is that what you say in the later sentences holds for the countries in the first sentence of this paragraph. Because in my experience, people who move onto business analysis from software development are those who are not very good developers and who cannot cope with the difficulty of both understanding the business requirement and correctly implementing a software solution for it.

Um, he was actually quite clear and I can confirm his experience: programmers are at the bottom of the food chain. BAs earn (slightly) better and people in business might talk to them (if they are forced to by their bosses) on the promise that they don't have to talk to developers in return.


I fully agree that the two jobs require totally different skills and that the best programmer might be a terrible BA and vice versa. But that has not stopped programmers from looking for a better paid job after 2 or so years. BA is one of those job options as they are typically in demand and easier to get than into either IT management or the elusive well paid dev contract.

Tinkiwinki 20.09.2018 10:41

Re: Nestle cuts 580 IT/Logistics jobs in Swiss Romande
 
Quote:

Tough luck, have a look at Ch‚tel St-Denis, plenty of companies moving up there, including one building in front of Landi.....
This is another Canton my friend. Different rules apply

JoshWilliams 20.09.2018 11:13

Re: Nestle cuts 580 IT/Logistics jobs in Swiss Romande
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Treverus (Post 2993520)
I fully agree that the two jobs require totally different skills and that the best programmer might be a terrible BA and vice versa. But that has not stopped programmers from looking for a better paid job after 2 or so years. BA is one of those job options as they are typically in demand and easier to get than into either IT management or the elusive well paid dev contract.

There is an army of developers from India ready to jump out of IBM / Infosys / TechM / Wipro slavery selling themselves as BAs and application managers in Switzerland, just by accepting a starting salary 10-20K lower than anyone else (which is peanuts in Switzerland). These are the same guys who absorbed your knowledge in years of multinational offshoring practice: it all started with the need to reduce costs by offshoring in fact. Companies like Nestlť corrupted the IT job market in this country in a way that is hardly recoverable.

Dandy 20.09.2018 11:18

Re: Nestle cuts 580 IT/Logistics jobs in Swiss Romande
 
tip for the "young dynamic unsuccessful": Instead of being whiny, go apply for a better job, e.g. www.jobserve.com and check your market value.

Phil_MCR 20.09.2018 11:41

Re: Nestle cuts 580 IT/Logistics jobs in Swiss Romande
 
hopefully you get a large payoff.

i sometimes wonder if getting made redundant would be so bad if you got 2 years 'garden leave' plus RAV...


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