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  #41  
Old 16.08.2018, 16:27
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Re: I am sick of working in an office, at a desk

I didn't work in an office, but in a studio producing graphics in central London. I liked the work, but printing posters for a new brand of baked beans or banners promoting a TV show... at the end of the day it just didn't matter.

Then I moved to Switzerland and opened a cheese shop and a beer bar, I've never worked such long hours (and for such little profit) but I've never been happier. Other people leave their office jobs to make wine, beer or cheese, or breed rare chickens (I did that as well for a while) because ultimately, working with food (ok, special, gourmet food, not frozen pizzas) is all about making people happy and that can make you happy too
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  #42  
Old 16.08.2018, 16:27
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Re: I am sick of working in an office, at a desk

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If you read that blog you'll quickly realize that his lifestyle is pretty frugal
you're right. I've just seen he spends like 70K/ year. Some of us spend all that on daycare alone
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Old 16.08.2018, 16:29
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Re: I am sick of working in an office, at a desk

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you're right. I've just seen he spends like 70K/ year. Some of us spend all that on daycare alone
Or beer.
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Old 16.08.2018, 16:51
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Re: I am sick of working in an office, at a desk

Guys, really inspiring answers - well, most of them anyway. I have some special thanks in mind, but apparently I need to post more to be able to thank.

I read replies mentioning happiness (at the workplace) and I wish to add to this discussion this TED talk: https://www.ted.com/talks/emily_esfa...an_being_happy

tl;dr: she states that happiness derives from meaning. And that the 4 pillars of meaning are:

1. belonging (to a group of people where you're valued for who you are intrinsically and where you value others as well)
2. purpose (less about what you want and more about what you give, your mission)
3. transcendence (when you're lifted above the daily life and you feel connected to a higher reality - i.e. trough art, spirituality)
4. storytelling (the story you tell yourself about yourself)

For meaning I would like to optimize. I currently feel a career in software engineering is pretty much divergent from these 4 pillars and you need to be very naive or constantly lying to yourself to satisfy them. To exemplify, I will briefly touch "purpose" and remind everybody of the tons of crappy and useless code that's being created every day for projects that will never see the light of day or help anyone.
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Old 16.08.2018, 17:17
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Re: I am sick of working in an office, at a desk

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bread rare chickens
Mmmm... Rare chicken nuggets...
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  #46  
Old 16.08.2018, 17:47
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Re: I am sick of working in an office, at a desk

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Guys, really inspiring answers - well, most of them anyway. I have some special thanks in mind, but apparently I need to post more to be able to thank.

I read replies mentioning happiness (at the workplace) and I wish to add to this discussion this TED talk: https://www.ted.com/talks/emily_esfa...an_being_happy

tl;dr: she states that happiness derives from meaning. And that the 4 pillars of meaning are:

1. belonging (to a group of people where you're valued for who you are intrinsically and where you value others as well)
2. purpose (less about what you want and more about what you give, your mission)
3. transcendence (when you're lifted above the daily life and you feel connected to a higher reality - i.e. trough art, spirituality)
4. storytelling (the story you tell yourself about yourself)

For meaning I would like to optimize. I currently feel a career in software engineering is pretty much divergent from these 4 pillars and you need to be very naive or constantly lying to yourself to satisfy them. To exemplify, I will briefly touch "purpose" and remind everybody of the tons of crappy and useless code that's being created every day for projects that will never see the light of day or help anyone.
I know software engineers that enjoy their jobs because they work on projects they find interesting for a company that appreciates what they are good at and pays accordingly. There is nothing at all wrong with that.

It sounds like you aren't working for the right company, the right managers, or software engineering isn't something you enjoy. Or a combination of all three. That's fine, but maybe first try to find a similarly skilled job in another company and try not to disrupt your career by quitting and chasing some intangible dream of a life spent in the great outdoors when you may not even have the skills or constitution for it.
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Old 16.08.2018, 17:59
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Re: I am sick of working in an office, at a desk

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she states that happiness derives from meaning. And that the 4 pillars of meaning are:

1. belonging (to a group of people where you're valued for who you are intrinsically and where you value others as well)
2. purpose (less about what you want and more about what you give, your mission)
3. transcendence (when you're lifted above the daily life and you feel connected to a higher reality - i.e. trough art, spirituality)
4. storytelling (the story you tell yourself about yourself)

...To exemplify, I will briefly touch "purpose" and remind everybody of the tons of crappy and useless code that's being created every day for projects that will never see the light of day or help anyone.
Purpose need not necessarily come from the same path that provides your livelihood. You can seperate these two. We have a friend who spends almost his entire free time with Engineers without Border. He has a day job that provides him the peace of mind and the financial freedom to do what he really wants.

You have spent probably 20 years of your life towards this career. If you are to quit now, there will be a long struggle to find something else. The lure of "following your passion" etc. is great and lucky are the people who can do it. But many of us will not be able to do it. I love to cook, but if I needed to cook as a career, I will not do it.

While it is very noble to become a aid worker (say), the people who donate money are also serving a very important purpose.
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  #48  
Old 16.08.2018, 18:01
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Re: I am sick of working in an office, at a desk

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Guys, really inspiring answers - well, most of them anyway. I have some special thanks in mind, but apparently I need to post more to be able to thank.

I read replies mentioning happiness (at the workplace) and I wish to add to this discussion this TED talk: https://www.ted.com/talks/emily_esfa...an_being_happy

tl;dr: she states that happiness derives from meaning. And that the 4 pillars of meaning are:

1. belonging (to a group of people where you're valued for who you are intrinsically and where you value others as well)
2. purpose (less about what you want and more about what you give, your mission)
3. transcendence (when you're lifted above the daily life and you feel connected to a higher reality - i.e. trough art, spirituality)
4. storytelling (the story you tell yourself about yourself)

For meaning I would like to optimize. I currently feel a career in software engineering is pretty much divergent from these 4 pillars and you need to be very naive or constantly lying to yourself to satisfy them. To exemplify, I will briefly touch "purpose" and remind everybody of the tons of crappy and useless code that's being created every day for projects that will never see the light of day or help anyone.
I can see ways in which those 4 pillars could, indeed, for some, be sufficiently satisfied by a career in software engineering. However, if it is not doing it for you, then you need to make a change. Good to look before you leap, though.

I once heard Motivations to Work as divided into these four types:
  1. Money
  2. Interest (in the actual material, mentally stimulating, appealing enough to want to know how things progress, challenging, offering the opportunity for something new and creative)
  3. Cause (the ideology, what one believes in and holds dear, wanting to make the world a better place, feeling that one's work delivers something useful and meaningful)
  4. People (the clients, customers, suppliers, colleagues and sometimes their families, delivery staff, competitors, instructors, students, people in related government departments and authorities)

The perfect job fulfils all four optimally (= rarely ever exists, for anyone).
This list is neither heirarchical nor static: at different phases of one's life, one's needs change, too.
  • A job in a charity or NGO may give one a high personal satisfaction at furthering a cause, but one earns relatively little. What counts as "little" depends on one's own position along the frugality-consumerism axis.
  • Even a boring job can be worth going to each day if the people there are such fun, or so caring.
  • Sometimes a mundane job with quiet, monosyllabic colleagues can be restorative, if one has come out the other side of a legal wrangle involving endless meetings and reports.
  • I met someone who chucking in his IT job and was happily eking out a living in an off-the-grid permaculture eco-village, until a child had an accident and there were needs that could not be met. Hop-skippety, he was back in the centre of the city, working in IT, to earn as much money as possible, to get what his child needed.

OP, have you considered getting a qualification in nursing? That's a way to a) not be in an office and b) earn a fair wage (though it will never make you rich) and c) to work part-time, if you would like to spend more of your leisure time outdoors.
Here's info about how to do this, when coming from another qualified field.
https://www.stadt-zuerich.ch/gud/de/...reinstieg.html
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  #49  
Old 16.08.2018, 18:02
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Re: I am sick of working in an office, at a desk

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Maybe you feel it too after years of sitting at a desk and working with abstract concepts all day long: you want a break, you want to be outside, interacting with the real life.

Any ideas about possible jobs/gigs that one can do in Switzerland so that she stays out of the typical corporate office?

I'm mid 30, I know a basic level of german, better french, gesturing in Italian, with a background in software development. I don't need to earn a fortune, just enough to have a frugal life and most important: stay employed.

The purpose is to have a purpose , to do something really useful and, ideally , outside somewhere, or simply put: not at a desk.

Opinions? Feelings? Is it just me? ...
Get fit. Get fluent in German. Join the police (criminal, not traffic).

(You can go back to eating doughnuts once you've got through your probationary period).
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  #50  
Old 16.08.2018, 19:44
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Re: I am sick of working in an office, at a desk

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I know software engineers that enjoy their jobs because they work on projects they find interesting for a company that appreciates what they are good at and pays accordingly. There is nothing at all wrong with that.

It sounds like you aren't working for the right company, the right managers, or software engineering isn't something you enjoy. Or a combination of all three. That's fine, but maybe first try to find a similarly skilled job in another company and try not to disrupt your career by quitting and chasing some intangible dream of a life spent in the great outdoors when you may not even have the skills or constitution for it.
Why is it an intangible dream, there are a tonne of things that anyone can do, with a bit of gumption or a good idea, that doesn't involve being a desk bound for the rest of ones life. The OP is fed up with her career choice and wants a change, do you actually have any suggestions?
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  #51  
Old 16.08.2018, 19:53
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Re: I am sick of working in an office, at a desk

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Well, we live in the first world, so we deal with it's problems

What you describe is - to me - total horror!
Of course there are times in life where having an income to live on is prior and the situation to combine that with gratification is not given. To me that means/always meant to get the first then keep working on finding where I can get the latter. Not to mention that the short times I just took the job available usually turned out to be opportunities for entierly new ideas and possibilities. Which is why I keep preaching that ideas should never be simply dismissed no matter how crazy they sound at first.

The theme in my professional life was people suggesting and offering jobs to me where my first reaction was "what the hell", then went for it and spent years in the field, even changing jobs but staying in the field.


Yes. Absolutely. I always was, when that no longer was the case I changed it. There is not one profession I spent several years in I didn't enjoy, succeeded in or would ever regret having invested my time in.

Yeah, I often was lucky to meet the right people at the right time but it was not luck only. The thing about luck is to actually notice it and grab the chances. To do this one needs to ..... what do you guys call it? .... think outside the box.
Well, okay, I might have taken it a step further and lived outside the box. LOL.
Goodness, what do you do?
From your posts I always had the impression that you are a Hausfrau / Hausmann

I wish that I was doing what you do!
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  #52  
Old 16.08.2018, 19:55
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Re: I am sick of working in an office, at a desk

There is also the matter of who you are supporting. If you are by yourself and a free spirit go ahead become a penguin researcher. If you’ve got a house and kids to support your views on life are different. I don’t care if I have to move shit around with a teaspoon all day as long as the money it brings gives the kids a good life. I hope for a lot more but it’s an important piece of the picture not t be missed.
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  #53  
Old 16.08.2018, 20:05
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Re: I am sick of working in an office, at a desk

The way I see it, the two extremes are:

Live to work.
Work to live.

It's the difference between a Berufung, and a Beruf.

If you can avoid burnout, the former is the preferable end of the spectrum. I do know a few people who see their job just as a way to finance their other interests, and yet live what seem to be very fulfilled lives.

Last edited by JagWaugh; 16.08.2018 at 20:20.
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Old 16.08.2018, 23:24
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Re: I am sick of working in an office, at a desk

You need a job like mine! My office is small, but not too small. My colleagues are normal and like having a work-life balance (we all work 80%) and are eco-oriented (bike to work, eat lots of organic veg, mostly non-smokers, ecological conscience, sporty, etc.. - anyway, i like them)). We do some outdoors work, sometimes it's harsh when it's raining buckets or freezing, or 35 degrees in the shade, but mostly the days go by quickly! Then we stay warm and hydrated and comfy, interpreting data in the office and writing reports about it. We have some meetings (not many internal, and the external ones are mostly short), some building site works, we get to "play" with water, dirt, rocks, rope, cables... we find concrete solutions to concrete problems.

Anyway, any field in environnement, geology, ecology, data scientist, will give you that, if you find an employer that doesn't put you in a box where you do the same task again and again until you excel at it (and become bored). This is the key! to be encouraged to do new tasks at work, again and again.

You can start as a field technician.

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Old 17.08.2018, 08:03
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Re: I am sick of working in an office, at a desk

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Maybe you feel it too after years of sitting at a desk and working with abstract concepts all day long: you want a break, you want to be outside, interacting with the real life.

Any ideas about possible jobs/gigs that one can do in Switzerland so that she stays out of the typical corporate office?

I'm mid 30, I know a basic level of german, better french, gesturing in Italian, with a background in software development. I don't need to earn a fortune, just enough to have a frugal life and most important: stay employed.

The purpose is to have a purpose , to do something really useful and, ideally , outside somewhere, or simply put: not at a desk.

Opinions? Feelings? Is it just me? ...
No its not just you. Its soul killing to work in a buro. Bad air artificial light etc etc etc. Go and work in elderly homes as a carer

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Old 17.08.2018, 08:48
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Re: I am sick of working in an office, at a desk

OP, judging by your posts....to me it seems like you're not at the right company or the right project. I would try to fix this before venturing myself into the wild world.

Many people find themselves in this situation at one point or another. But really...what else can you do? Can you be a sports trainer for instance? Do you have any other training, diploma or talent except for uni degrees? Now it comes to my mind what my grandfather used to tell us "have a trade in your pocket because you never know if a university degree will always work for you". By "trade" he meant carpentry, sewing, cooking, things like that. So....do you?
I thought so.

The truth is you're in a such a good and relatively safe position you don't even realise and I can understand the somehow snarky replies you've also got.
Maybe you're suffering from burnout, or don;t have enough enjoyment in you afterwork life. Fix that. Or try to get a different diploma. But really, I would think many times before putting my career in danger to chase some illusory "plan". Your situation reminds me of my disappointment as a teen when I didn't get selected for a sport team because apparently I didn't have what it takes to play at that level. I appreciated the brutal honesty only years later.

Anyway, think it through, and many times at that. Good luck.
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Old 17.08.2018, 09:12
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Re: I am sick of working in an office, at a desk

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Go and work in elderly homes as a carer
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Old 17.08.2018, 09:36
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Re: I am sick of working in an office, at a desk

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I don't need to earn a fortune, just enough to have a frugal life and most important: stay employed.
.
I almost forgot about this.....frugal life? I am sure "frugal" at thirty something is not even a quarter fun of what it probably was when you were a student.
IMHO....frugal at this age would be frustrating. It's easy to say this now when you can probably afford pretty much anything you fancy or need.
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Old 17.08.2018, 09:52
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Re: I am sick of working in an office, at a desk

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Test driver for Porsche and photographer for playboy comes to my mind....
I'll take airline pilot
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Old 17.08.2018, 09:59
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Re: I am sick of working in an office, at a desk

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I'll take airline pilot

I know a few of them, bad hours and cramped working conditions apparently, might as well become a bus driver as they have more control of the vehicle too.
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