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robogobo 01.12.2018 08:30

Threatened by family member
 
Last night after an argument between me and my father in-law, my son heard my brother in-law vaguely threaten to harm me. Iíve personally heard him make similar threats before, even toward his own family. During a land dispute with his uncle several years ago he told me he was thinking of having him killed. I didnít think he was serious, but now Iím not so sure. He often refers to himself as ďthe boss of the familyĒ and heís a big fan of The Godfather films, no joke.

Iím wondering what my legal recourse is. I have no proof, so I suppose notifying the police is useless. My first thought was to tell a few friends what my son heard, and tell my brother in-law that Iíve informed a few people of his threat, and if anything were to happen to me, the police would come to him first. Is there anything legally wrong with my doing that?

Iím trying to not be paranoid here, but this person seriously has a screw loose and Iíd rather not end up dead.

Any advice is appreciated.

doropfiz 01.12.2018 13:04

Re: Threatened by family member
 
Here is the Victims' Support Centre in Lucerne.
https://disg.lu.ch/themen/opferberat...chsberechtigte

They are professionals offering advice (I think it is free, you'd have to check that) to people who have been victims of crimes. And yes, "threatening" is not allowed.
Unfortunately, they're not open over the weekend.
Montag bis Freitag
08.30 - 12.00 Uhr
13.30 - 16.00 Uhr.

The Police are, in fact, often a good place to start, especially as you don't sound as if you'd be going there with your own guns ablazing, demanding things from them. Just go and ask them for advice. They know that many types of odd or dangerous behaviours don't just suddenly happen out of the blue, but have been hinted at before they happen. Fortunately, at least the main Police Stations are open 24-hours.

You do not sound paranoid, to me, from this one post, but that's besides the point. The general rule with regard to potential violence is that it is better to err on the side of caution, better to approach the police or another professional one time too many, than one time to too few, once too early, than once too late.

I wish you courage, and if you can, take someone with you to the police station. Most especially do this if you cannnot speak/understand enough German. Take your son (who heard the threat) if he is older than 18, or any other adult witness, or otherwise another stable adult you can trust to stay calm.

greenmount 01.12.2018 13:40

Re: Threatened by family member
 
If he's a Godfather's fan.....go to the mattresses..

Confront him when you have a couple of friends around? He might be stupid enough to lose it....the bullies usually lash out if their huge ego is hurt.

Troublawesome 01.12.2018 13:54

Re: Threatened by family member
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by greenmount (Post 3018804)
If he's a Godfather's fan.....go to the mattresses..

Confront him when you have a couple of friends around? He might be stupid enough to lose it....the bullies usually lash out if their huge ego is hurt.

This isn't a movie. There are kids involved.


NEVER take action in your own hands, especially as right now it's just words. Inform the police first, leave a written report back. Then inform him through friends or relatives and not directly that it's unacceptable to hint at violence and the authorities are notified.


Then de-escalate this. Avoid him and his family like the plague.

robogobo 01.12.2018 17:24

Re: Threatened by family member
 
Thanks doropfiz and troublawesome for your thoughtful replies. Iím really grateful for such supportive advice.

Greenmount, that was my initial knee jerk reaction too. But I really want to handle this in a way in which unlike the movies, we donít all get hurt in the end. I do appreciate your perspective, though. If I were in his situation, single with no responsibility but himself, I might go toe to toe with him. Iím afraid that would be giving him exactly what he wants. I have to think about my familyís wellbeing. I have too much to lose.

ZuriRollt 01.12.2018 17:39

Re: Threatened by family member
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by robogobo (Post 3018762)
Last night after an argument between me and my father in-law, my son heard my brother in-law vaguely threaten to harm me. I’ve personally heard him make similar threats before, even toward his own family. During a land dispute with his uncle several years ago he told me he was thinking of having him killed.

Given the background, agree completely with Doropfiz: Get professional advice from the Victims Support Line. Then, at least, you have documented proof if push comes to shove.

NotAllThere 01.12.2018 19:03

Re: Threatened by family member
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by robogobo (Post 3018762)
Any advice is appreciated.

Take him for short walk of a long cliff?

ZuriRollt 01.12.2018 19:16

Re: Threatened by family member
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by NotAllThere (Post 3018893)
Take him for short walk of a long cliff?

Would you like to elaborate?

st2lemans 01.12.2018 19:25

Re: Threatened by family member
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by NotAllThere (Post 3018893)
Take him for short walk of a long cliff?

You've got it backwards, it's "a long walk off a short pier". ;)

Meanwhile, should you decide to challenge him to play the knife game, I have several high-quality French switch-blades that you could borrow. :eek:

Tom

slammer 01.12.2018 19:28

Re: Threatened by family member
 
Does he have any beloved horses by any chance?

st2lemans 01.12.2018 19:43

Re: Threatened by family member
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by slammer (Post 3018900)
Does he have any beloved horses by any chance?

Alas, it's tomorrow's lunch! :eek:

(50% off at Coop today)

Tom

curley 01.12.2018 20:18

Re: Threatened by family member
 
Shouldn't your wife know best, how serious this situation really is? I guess this kind of talk is not new to her?

robogobo 01.12.2018 20:26

Re: Threatened by family member
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by curley (Post 3018909)
Shouldn't your wife know best, how serious this situation really is? I guess this kind of talk is not new to her?

No, she's actually quite shocked by it and equally unsure of how to handle it. She doubted me when he made the threats toward his uncle years ago. Now that my son is involved she's much more motivated.

Anjela 01.12.2018 22:44

Re: Threatened by family member
 
Shouldn't your father-in-law be considered the Head of the Family?

Has anyone asked what does he thinks about this, or is he not aware of his son's behaviour?

greenmount 02.12.2018 01:56

Re: Threatened by family member
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by robogobo (Post 3018910)
No, she's actually quite shocked by it and equally unsure of how to handle it. She doubted me when he made the threats toward his uncle years ago. Now that my son is involved she's much more motivated.

I don't know how to say it, but I find it a bit strange that your own wife doubted you. It will be very difficult for you to avoid her family...it seems.
Police won't be able to do anything as long as you don't have any witnesses, and my tongue-in-cheek comment was more like a hint to get some witnesses to his threats...of course, it's a fantasy.
But seriously, don't get over defensive and fatalistic. All the best to you, I hope you'll find a solution.

Corbets 02.12.2018 07:28

Re: Threatened by family member
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Anjela (Post 3018950)
Shouldn't your father-in-law be considered the Head of the Family?

Not that itís relevant, since the point is that the brother in law sees himself as the head... but anyway, itís not some kind of inherited title, itís a question of dominant (alpha male) behavior.

OP, document it with a discussion with the police (or this victims support line, I donít know it). If they feel itís serious enough to warrant a follow up with the BIL, then that might bring him in line. If they donít, then they probably will if it happens again (or, should things escalate, they know where to start looking).

robogobo 03.12.2018 15:01

Re: Threatened by family member
 
Thanks a lot for all the sincere responses.

My wife merely found it difficult to believe that her brother could say such a thing, as you could imagine. She was sure I misunderstood or that, like I also suspected, he was joking. That's all changed now.

I don't really subscribe to the whole "head of the family" thing. My wife and I are the heads of our family, and it pretty much stops there as far as we're concerned. That's the whole problem for her brother, who views everything through the lens of control and influence. He sees himself as next in line to inherit the throne, never mind that there is no kingdom to speak of. He's delusional, and suffers from an extreme closed-feedback loop in his own life.

I'll contact the victim's helpline as suggested. I'm not yet sure if I want to directly involve the police, as that could exacerbate the situation.

Thanks again. You're all golden.

Flyingfox 03.01.2019 12:10

Re: Threatened by family member
 
Dear EFers
Rather than starting a new thread, I thought I'd keep relevant topics together.

In our case it's a father who is threatening and very aggressive with words, emotions and actions.

I am no longer with him (he moved in with his most recent affair that he had while still married to me.)
The kids are with him 50% as I agreed at the time with his promise he loves the kids and wants to take care of them.

Meanwhile he still
, according to the kids, yells and screams at them for anything and everything. The kids are constantly on eggshells. He locks them in their rooms and threatens them with being locked in there all day. He tells the kids I'm crazy and mean to him, and e writes me A++ mail to tell me I'm psycho and am to blame for everything :msncrazy:

It leaves the kids feeling scared, lonely, unloved and confused because they know I am a good mum to them and never bad-mouth their dad to them. The kids in fact draw their own conclusions about their father. When talk about it, I do so with professionals in a calm solution oriented way.

I've applied officially to have the kids sleep and have their stability with me and visit their father every day if they want. It just takes a long time :(

Would it be OTT do you think to go with them to the Frauen Haus? The kids and I are really suffering and I'm otherwise on my own here.

Thanks for the help guys and happy New year :D

Flying fox

swisspea 03.01.2019 15:47

Re: Threatened by family member
 
Yes, I would recommend you speak either to the Frauenhaus or to the Child protection team at the Kinderspital (assuming you're in zurich).


I am sure they can advise you with what options you have - I would suggest making an appointment first on your own, and then getting their advice in how to include the children.



It goes without saying that you should be recording all abusive behaviour, saving emails or text messages in a safe place, and certainly inform the police if you feel like this man is a possible threat. If you do try to make additional restrictions on his access to the kids, then that is likely to trigger worse behaviour, so I would say that you need to speak to the Frauenhaus about how you can protect yourself and your children.

MissDragonfly 08.01.2019 00:09

Re: Threatened by family member
 
What exactly can the police do, other than escalate the situation?

I know it's a knee-jerk reaction many people have, but police cannot really prevent crimes from happening, they can only show up after the fact and take pictures.

robogobo 10.01.2019 16:05

Re: Threatened by family member
 
So sorry to hear about your situation. Based on what I recently went through with my brother in law, I think it's very important to get some kind of official authority involved and let your ex know that you've informed someone of his behavior. At the very least tell him that other people are aware of what he's doing. Sometimes, as with my situation, making them aware that they can't be abusive in secret will make them check their behavior.

This is assuming he's not physically abusive. If that's the case, get out right now, asap. Yelling is one thing, and he can't go to jail for it. Hitting is something completely else.

I hope your situation improves. It sounds really bad for your kids.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flyingfox (Post 3026996)
Dear EFers
Rather than starting a new thread, I thought I'd keep relevant topics together.

In our case it's a father who is threatening and very aggressive with words, emotions and actions.

I am no longer with him (he moved in with his most recent affair that he had while still married to me.)
The kids are with him 50% as I agreed at the time with his promise he loves the kids and wants to take care of them.

Meanwhile he still
, according to the kids, yells and screams at them for anything and everything. The kids are constantly on eggshells. He locks them in their rooms and threatens them with being locked in there all day. He tells the kids I'm crazy and mean to him, and e writes me A++ mail to tell me I'm psycho and am to blame for everything :msncrazy:

It leaves the kids feeling scared, lonely, unloved and confused because they know I am a good mum to them and never bad-mouth their dad to them. The kids in fact draw their own conclusions about their father. When talk about it, I do so with professionals in a calm solution oriented way.

I've applied officially to have the kids sleep and have their stability with me and visit their father every day if they want. It just takes a long time :(

Would it be OTT do you think to go with them to the Frauen Haus? The kids and I are really suffering and I'm otherwise on my own here.

Thanks for the help guys and happy New year :D

Flying fox


Helm 10.01.2019 17:19

Re: Threatened by family member
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MissDragonfly (Post 3028233)
What exactly can the police do, other than escalate the situation?

I know it's a knee-jerk reaction many people have, but police cannot really prevent crimes from happening, they can only show up after the fact and take pictures.

Informing the police of what is going on starts the procedure of proof. It's no longer a sudden he-said she-said case - they can advise and protect you when needed, can take proof of physical abuse and help get you to a shelter if needed. Many times the abused have no idea how bad the abuse actually is until they talk to the authorities.

In cases where one leaves the communal home, having informed the authorities may help with the permit process later on, as many times that permit is tied up to the working partner. Leaving the familial home can weight against you, even if you did it fearing for your life or that of your children.

This kind of silly talk that the police can't do anything until a crime is committed is feeding the helplessness of domestic abuse victims. The police are not all mighty, but they are also not useless buffoons.

Where2 10.01.2019 23:56

Re: Threatened by family member
 
Actually, the police will not take a report on someone threatening you when it comes to domestic abuse, they will only act on currently happening events. If your partner is hitting you, they will stop him/her from hitting you while it is happening. If you want to prevent it from happening, you must go to court and get a restraining order.
The police will indeed take pictures after the event has happened, but as stated already they will not prevent anything from happening or monitor any threatened activities that have not been defined by court order.
You will not get the court order lightly or quickly. Punching, drawing a weapon without using it, throwing things and threats could be considered light violence. You will need multiple 100% provable events to get any reaction. If you are up against a good liar or a lawyer better than yours, you run a very real risk of being held accountable for attempting to damage the other person and having to pay their legal fees.
In other countries it is different, and you can expect support before you have been injured, stalked etc. I understand that many people want to believe it is different here, but it simply isn't unless you have connections and/or money.You would be better off going to a good lawyer for prevention, and the police during the violence.

curley 11.01.2019 00:21

Re: Threatened by family member
 
Threat is a criminal offense in Switzerland.

thekman 11.01.2019 12:39

Re: Threatened by family member
 
If there was not a child involved I would have simply advised you get out of that marriage immediately given your wife doubted your story the first time around and being a part of a family will never give you peace unless she was prepared to cut them off completely. Sounds like a tricky situation OP, I think legal/professional advice is the route to go down given the sensitivity of the situation.

Sorry to hear and I hope you find a solution.


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