Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Help & tips > Other/general  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 03.12.2018, 19:22
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Dübendorf
Posts: 14
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Dimpt has no particular reputation at present
Check mobile for bug/wiretap?

This might sound paranoid, but I would like to check a mobile phone for bug/wiretap (software or hardware), recording mostly sound even if the phone looks turned off.

Is the a shop in Switzerland offering such services?

Serious replies only please, thank you.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 03.12.2018, 19:31
NotAllThere's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Baselland
Posts: 10,553
Groaned at 158 Times in 137 Posts
Thanked 14,839 Times in 6,019 Posts
NotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Check mobile for bug/wiretap?

Quote:
View Post
This might sound paranoid, but I would like to check a mobile phone for bug/wiretap (software or hardware), recording mostly sound even if the phone looks turned off.
Well, it could happen.

Quote:
Serious replies only please, thank you.
But that's delusional.
Reply With Quote
The following 7 users would like to thank NotAllThere for this useful post:
  #3  
Old 03.12.2018, 19:31
robBob's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Zurich
Posts: 1,633
Groaned at 31 Times in 19 Posts
Thanked 1,206 Times in 704 Posts
robBob has an excellent reputationrobBob has an excellent reputationrobBob has an excellent reputationrobBob has an excellent reputation
Re: Check mobile for bug/wiretap?

Quote:
View Post

Serious replies only please, thank you.

Then your asking on the wrong platform.
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank robBob for this useful post:
  #4  
Old 03.12.2018, 20:33
aSwissInTheUS's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Zurich area
Posts: 9,442
Groaned at 74 Times in 65 Posts
Thanked 14,179 Times in 6,306 Posts
aSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond reputeaSwissInTheUS has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Check mobile for bug/wiretap?

Remove the battery of your old phone. No battery, no bug/wiretap. Now shred the phone and dispose the battery properly.

Buy a new phone. In a random chosen store at least 100 km away where you live. Next go in anther town and buy an new notebook. Use this notebook only to make backups of your phone. Never connect your phone to any other computer. And only connect the computer with internet once to download the needed connection software. After that never ever again. Do this from a public WIFI hot spot in a third location.

To get to all this places travel by public transport. Pay the tickets using hard cash. Get full fare ones. Do not use a half fare card discount so that you can show the ticked w/o any further ID. Do not have any other phone or any other electronic device with you when you do this. Nothing with a battery (watches, radio receiver, pace maker etc.), with a plug (computer, power supply, hair dryer, washing machine, etc.), or RFID (bank cards, half fare card, car keys, cloth safety tags, chipped cat or dog etc.) Do not install any apps (no candy crush, whatsapp, facebook, pinterest, threema, telegram, etc.) on the new phone. Do not surf on the internet with the new phone. Always remove the battery when you are not using it,an especially during sensitive private conversations. Regardless if in person or on the phone.
__________________
PLAYER 1 ENTER YOUR NAME:_
Reply With Quote
The following 18 users would like to thank aSwissInTheUS for this useful post:
  #5  
Old 04.12.2018, 00:23
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 3,182
Groaned at 57 Times in 38 Posts
Thanked 3,116 Times in 1,726 Posts
rainer_d has a reputation beyond reputerainer_d has a reputation beyond reputerainer_d has a reputation beyond reputerainer_d has a reputation beyond reputerainer_d has a reputation beyond reputerainer_d has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Check mobile for bug/wiretap?

Quote:
View Post
This might sound paranoid, but I would like to check a mobile phone for bug/wiretap (software or hardware), recording mostly sound even if the phone looks turned off.

Is the a shop in Switzerland offering such services?

Serious replies only please, thank you.

Android or iOS?

For a recent iOS to be bugged, you'd need to have nation-state adversaries going after you. Remote exploits for it are very expensive. You'd need to be a very high value target to someone signing off on burning a million-dollar exploit on you.

Your profile states that you're an accountant. Unless you're "The Accountant", I think we can rule that out?
Or do you work for an NGO or something along that line?

If you use an Android-phone, it's basically game over anyway.
It's usually full of unpatched bugs, there's a lot more 0-days available and the curation and background-checking of apps in the store isn't as thorough as on iOS. Physical security is also a problem with Android as the phones can be rooted much easier.

If you suspect a physical ("classic") bug in your environment, there are various tools to locate those:
http://www.detektei-schutzdienst-sho...SAAEgK2uvD_BwE

But again, this is an arms-race. If you have nation-state adversaries, it's unlikely you'll find the bugs with a tool you bought of the internet for 150 CHFs.

You can try building a SCIF (Google "How to build a SCIF") - it's a fun project IMO and will keep you busy for a while.

AFAIK, if you buy one of the gadgets from the shop above and import it, the authorities might take an interest in you. Customs will most likely intercept it.
You address will also most likely be forwarded to the German regulator, as well as the Swiss one (BAKOM) - that's usually how these kinds of shops stay open.
If you're truly paranoid, you'd have to build these yourself from parts.
Reply With Quote
The following 5 users would like to thank rainer_d for this useful post:
  #6  
Old 04.12.2018, 01:02
FunnyBone's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Earth
Posts: 703
Groaned at 34 Times in 24 Posts
Thanked 974 Times in 457 Posts
FunnyBone has a reputation beyond reputeFunnyBone has a reputation beyond reputeFunnyBone has a reputation beyond reputeFunnyBone has a reputation beyond reputeFunnyBone has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Check mobile for bug/wiretap?

And keep your phone totally wrapped in aluminum foil when not in use.
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank FunnyBone for this useful post:
  #7  
Old 04.12.2018, 01:25
Phil_MCR's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Basel
Posts: 13,086
Groaned at 267 Times in 173 Posts
Thanked 15,328 Times in 6,498 Posts
Phil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Check mobile for bug/wiretap?

Quote:
View Post
Remove the battery of your old phone. No battery, no bug/wiretap. Now shred the phone and dispose the battery properly.

Buy a new phone. In a random chosen store at least 100 km away where you live. Next go in anther town and buy an new notebook. Use this notebook only to make backups of your phone. Never connect your phone to any other computer. And only connect the computer with internet once to download the needed connection software. After that never ever again. Do this from a public WIFI hot spot in a third location.

To get to all this places travel by public transport. Pay the tickets using hard cash. Get full fare ones. Do not use a half fare card discount so that you can show the ticked w/o any further ID. Do not have any other phone or any other electronic device with you when you do this. Nothing with a battery (watches, radio receiver, pace maker etc.), with a plug (computer, power supply, hair dryer, washing machine, etc.), or RFID (bank cards, half fare card, car keys, cloth safety tags, chipped cat or dog etc.) Do not install any apps (no candy crush, whatsapp, facebook, pinterest, threema, telegram, etc.) on the new phone. Do not surf on the internet with the new phone. Always remove the battery when you are not using it,an especially during sensitive private conversations. Regardless if in person or on the phone.
sorry, but you shouldn't connect the computer to a network ever. in fact, before even turning on the computer for the first time, you should open it up, remove all the wireless and networking modules.

for the connecing software, you should write this yourself so that there is no need to download code.

also, public transport has cctv. you need to get about on foot or by bike. preferably take a bolt cutter and steal bikes and change bikes to avoid being tracked (best to change bikes under a bridge or other structure to avoid observation).
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank Phil_MCR for this useful post:
  #8  
Old 04.12.2018, 01:28
Phil_MCR's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Basel
Posts: 13,086
Groaned at 267 Times in 173 Posts
Thanked 15,328 Times in 6,498 Posts
Phil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Check mobile for bug/wiretap?

Quote:
View Post
Android or iOS?

For a recent iOS to be bugged, you'd need to have nation-state adversaries going after you.
or a suspicious partner who installs a hidden app.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Phil_MCR for this useful post:
  #9  
Old 04.12.2018, 08:03
Today only's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Europe
Posts: 6,310
Groaned at 700 Times in 475 Posts
Thanked 7,626 Times in 3,621 Posts
Today only has a reputation beyond reputeToday only has a reputation beyond reputeToday only has a reputation beyond reputeToday only has a reputation beyond reputeToday only has a reputation beyond reputeToday only has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Check mobile for bug/wiretap?

Let me ask my mate Bond, James Bond
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 04.12.2018, 08:52
krlock3's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Zürich
Posts: 2,766
Groaned at 41 Times in 29 Posts
Thanked 1,836 Times in 925 Posts
krlock3 has a reputation beyond reputekrlock3 has a reputation beyond reputekrlock3 has a reputation beyond reputekrlock3 has a reputation beyond reputekrlock3 has a reputation beyond reputekrlock3 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Check mobile for bug/wiretap?

Quote:
View Post

Buy a new phone. In a random chosen store at least 100 km away where you live.

To get to all this places travel by public transport. Pay the tickets using hard cash. Get full fare ones. Do not use a half fare card discount so that you can show the ticked w/o any further ID. Do not have any other phone or any other electronic device with you when you do this. Nothing with a battery (watches, radio receiver, pace maker etc.), with a plug (computer, power supply, hair dryer, washing machine, etc.)
I can only second the advice not to bring your washing machine with you when you travel on public transport, in case it is bugged.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank krlock3 for this useful post:
  #11  
Old 04.12.2018, 09:15
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Nyon
Posts: 1,193
Groaned at 47 Times in 30 Posts
Thanked 988 Times in 522 Posts
bowlie has an excellent reputationbowlie has an excellent reputationbowlie has an excellent reputationbowlie has an excellent reputation
Re: Check mobile for bug/wiretap?

If they want to bug your phone, they will. Take the battery out (not easily done with Apple) and keep it in a ziplock bag.

If it’s an apple turn it off completely, wrap in aluminium foil and keep in a ziplock.

AND NEVER USE IT!
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank bowlie for this useful post:
  #12  
Old 04.12.2018, 09:38
JagWaugh's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Eglisau
Posts: 7,264
Groaned at 46 Times in 45 Posts
Thanked 13,541 Times in 5,303 Posts
JagWaugh has a reputation beyond reputeJagWaugh has a reputation beyond reputeJagWaugh has a reputation beyond reputeJagWaugh has a reputation beyond reputeJagWaugh has a reputation beyond reputeJagWaugh has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Check mobile for bug/wiretap?

Everyone is making this exercise too complicated. The simplest solution is to put the phone in the microwave for 1:30 on "High" before every use.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank JagWaugh for this useful post:
  #13  
Old 04.12.2018, 10:06
bigblue2's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Glarus
Posts: 7,553
Groaned at 439 Times in 373 Posts
Thanked 12,804 Times in 5,108 Posts
bigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Check mobile for bug/wiretap?

just buy the cheapest of the cheap basic phone, Conrad sell em for around 9chf, every few days throw it away and start again.

But ....

That won't help with your sim card being tracked and the network provider / CIA / KGB / GCHQ / Chinese all listening
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 04.12.2018, 10:17
fatmanfilms's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 17,350
Groaned at 256 Times in 211 Posts
Thanked 14,569 Times in 8,131 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Check mobile for bug/wiretap?

Quote:
View Post
just buy the cheapest of the cheap basic phone, Conrad sell em for around 9chf, every few days throw it away and start again.

But ....

That won't help with your sim card being tracked and the network provider / CIA / KGB / GCHQ / Chinese all listening
UK & Malta sims can be bought over the counter without any ID, change phone & phone no every week.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank fatmanfilms for this useful post:
  #15  
Old 04.12.2018, 10:27
slammer's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Lummerland
Posts: 4,560
Groaned at 112 Times in 78 Posts
Thanked 7,634 Times in 2,843 Posts
slammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Check mobile for bug/wiretap?

And don´t go to China, where a friendly plane clothes "policeman" will take your phone and install a piece of code, no idea what it does and I havn´t trusted my phone since.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 04.12.2018, 10:27
slammer's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Lummerland
Posts: 4,560
Groaned at 112 Times in 78 Posts
Thanked 7,634 Times in 2,843 Posts
slammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Check mobile for bug/wiretap?

Quote:
View Post
UK & Malta sims can be bought over the counter without any ID, change phone & phone no every week.
Yeh, them days are gone in the rest of Europe.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank slammer for this useful post:
  #17  
Old 04.12.2018, 10:33
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Vaud
Posts: 1,263
Groaned at 89 Times in 57 Posts
Thanked 1,302 Times in 760 Posts
yacek has a reputation beyond reputeyacek has a reputation beyond reputeyacek has a reputation beyond reputeyacek has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Check mobile for bug/wiretap?

Due to the fact that all currently sold phones have to support the oldest possible cellular systems which ciphers and other protections were hacked long ago, the common trick is to have one's own BTS (aka "cell tower") that pretends to be e.g. swisscom and make the phone connect through it. It would be highly illegal but tools are on the market and certainly US police are buying them (e.g. so called Stingray).
Besides, since long ago, *some* cell phones provided lawful intercept of not just conversations, but also of recording whatever happened even if such a phone was supposedly turned off (think how nice it is when a battery is non removable :-) ).
The only problem in US was wether a wiretap warrant for good enough to record like that...

Now, the old "bug" with a narrowband transmitter continuously on was easy to detect. Newer ones (spread spectrum) are harder, but maybe can't be bought off-the-shelf yet, but could be found by physical inspection of the phone innards.

A software "bug" - forget it. You'd need to hire Kaspersky lab or a similar well motivated hacker and they might still fail to discover it.

If you suspect a spy software installed on a phone then simply backup your pictures and video recordings, throw away any other downloaded stuff (apps in particular, but media files as well as many times in the past these were the vectors of infecting computers), and re-install the operating system on the device using the most "wipe-all" method. If a phone was rooted, then sell it and get a new one :-)
And don't put the old pictures and recordings back to it just in case :-)
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank yacek for this useful post:
  #18  
Old 04.12.2018, 10:40
bigblue2's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Glarus
Posts: 7,553
Groaned at 439 Times in 373 Posts
Thanked 12,804 Times in 5,108 Posts
bigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Check mobile for bug/wiretap?

kinda wanna know who the op works for / has pissed off that they think they are so important that someone would go to all the hassle and extreme expense, not to mention multiple laws broken, to bug their iphone lol
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank bigblue2 for this useful post:
  #19  
Old 04.12.2018, 12:01
Squeeeez's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Frauenfeld
Posts: 794
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 789 Times in 358 Posts
Squeeeez has a reputation beyond reputeSqueeeez has a reputation beyond reputeSqueeeez has a reputation beyond reputeSqueeeez has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Check mobile for bug/wiretap?

Quote:
View Post
kinda wanna know who the op works for / has pissed off that they think they are so important that someone would go to all the hassle and extreme expense, not to mention multiple laws broken, to bug their iphone lol

I'd say a jealous (ex-)partner is enough in some cases
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Squeeeez for this useful post:
  #20  
Old 04.12.2018, 12:04
bigblue2's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Glarus
Posts: 7,553
Groaned at 439 Times in 373 Posts
Thanked 12,804 Times in 5,108 Posts
bigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Check mobile for bug/wiretap?

Quote:
View Post
I'd say a jealous (ex-)partner is enough in some cases
unless the expartner is some kind of MIT genius or works for mossad 'hacking' an iphone is way beyond them. If its not then I'm sure a whole load of job offers will be coming their way.
Reply With Quote
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
apartment check out-check in....at the same time nirak Housing in general 7 08.01.2014 13:13
How to Check Balance on M-Budget Mobile Abo? esto TV/internet/telephone 2 02.07.2012 21:41
How do I check remaining credit on sunrise mobile lazylion TV/internet/telephone 2 06.07.2010 00:41


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 13:09.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0