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  #21  
Old 10.01.2019, 14:24
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Re: What happens to the poor who cannot afford to pay a fine in Switzerland?

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Opiate is only a part of the whole picture and excludes weed, cocaine and XTC to name just a few.
XTC??? damn I get through load of the stuff


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  #22  
Old 10.01.2019, 14:25
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Re: What happens to the poor who cannot afford to pay a fine in Switzerland?

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Monetary penalties are assessed at a "day rate", which is based on your income, i.e. the judgement is you are fined "x number of day rates" and the day rate is then calculated to arrive at the actual monetary penalty owed. This should, in theory, make it possible for lower income culprits to pay the monetary penalty.

If monetary penalties are not paid, the day rates are converted into number of days in prison.
https://www.admin.ch/opc/en/classifi...index.html#a36
The problem is, it doesn't consider the differences in disposable income for different income levels. Someone earning 4k a month will have a much lower percentage of it in disposable income than someone making 40k. As such the hit for the low-income earners should be expected to be much harder. And, there's a minimal amount for the Tagessatz, so once you're below some threshold the fine actually increases when measured as a proportion of your income.
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  #23  
Old 10.01.2019, 14:26
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Re: What happens to the poor who cannot afford to pay a fine in Switzerland?

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Opiate is only a part of the whole picture and excludes weed, cocaine and XTC to name just a few.
In the US, those are also considered opiates.

Tom
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  #24  
Old 10.01.2019, 14:38
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Re: What happens to the poor who cannot afford to pay a fine in Switzerland?

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In the US, those are also considered opiates.

Tom
The list does not, beyond any doubt the percentages of users would have been much much higher if they did. The list takes opiates as products deriving from the poppy seed plant (papaver).

And are you not confused with opioids which indeed includes opiates but also XTC, weed and cocaine.
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  #25  
Old 10.01.2019, 15:15
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Re: What happens to the poor who cannot afford to pay a fine in Switzerland?

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XTC??? damn I get through load of the stuff


I didn't k now in the old days XTC was only 2D.


As to jail time: Since 15.10.18 being homeless gets you sentenced to jail time in Hungary!
An EU country .... just saying.

Yep, that's how you keep up the pretence while fulfilling the EU budget ideas.
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  #26  
Old 10.01.2019, 15:28
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Re: What happens to the poor who cannot afford to pay a fine in Switzerland?

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Monetary penalties are assessed at a "day rate", which is based on your income, i.e. the judgement is you are fined "x number of day rates" and the day rate is then calculated to arrive at the actual monetary penalty owed. This should, in theory, make it possible for lower income culprits to pay the monetary penalty.
But it is worse with simple fines according the price list.

First, they are not based on your income, which means they are peanuts if you have a high disposable income, but can be a considerable burden for someone living from paycheck to paycheck.

Additionally, if you do not pay a simple fine on time it does not get automatically converted into a prison sentence. Not paying a simple fine is the same as objecting it. Which means a prosecutor will decide, will issue a new fine which can be higher (only this will come with a prison sentence if not paid), court fees will be added (which cannot be convert into prison days or or community work), and the driving license authority will be informed which can result in even more fees (which also can not be converted into prison or community work) and a driving ban!
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  #27  
Old 10.01.2019, 15:35
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Re: What happens to the poor who cannot afford to pay a fine in Switzerland?

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And are you not confused with opioids which indeed includes opiates but also [..] weed [...].
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  #28  
Old 10.01.2019, 15:38
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Re: What happens to the poor who cannot afford to pay a fine in Switzerland?

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But it is worse with simple fines according the price list.

First, they are not based on your income, which means they are peanuts if you have a high disposable income, but can be a considerable burden for someone living from paycheck to paycheck.

Additionally, if you do not pay a simple fine on time it does not get automatically converted into a prison sentence. Not paying a simple fine is the same as objecting it. Which means a prosecutor will decide, will issue a new fine which can be higher (only this will come with a prison sentence if not paid), court fees will be added (which cannot be convert into prison days or or community work), and the driving license authority will be informed which can result in even more fees (which also can not be converted into prison or community work) and a driving ban!
Basically it does not at all agree with my sense of justice that one and the same crime has a different penalty price for different people!

However, as to fines changed into jail sentences: As I mentioned somewhere else quite a while ago: It's not the convict's choice to go to jail. One has to prove not to have the money to pay the fine and not even a possibility to pay it in installments within reasonable time. (Guess that "reasonable time" is also fixed somehwere but I won't go look for it now).
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  #29  
Old 10.01.2019, 16:12
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Re: What happens to the poor who cannot afford to pay a fine in Switzerland?

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Yes and why such a high % of the population turns to drugs and alcoholism due to the fact the system keeps them from getting ahead.
Yeah. No personal responsibility at all.

It's the man keepin' us down! Feel me dog?
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  #30  
Old 10.01.2019, 16:14
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Re: What happens to the poor who cannot afford to pay a fine in Switzerland?

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Yeah. No personal responsibility at all.

It's the man keepin' us down! Feel me dog?
Every human has personal responsibility, but each human also has their limits and limitations..which is different for each person either by birth or circumstance.
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  #31  
Old 10.01.2019, 16:36
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Re: What happens to the poor who cannot afford to pay a fine in Switzerland?

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Opioides is a broader term including opiate.

Opiates the drugs coming from the opium plant, for example heroin and morphine

Opioides are all natural and synthetic substances that bind to the opioid receptors in the brain, so this group is much bigger than Opiates alone.
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  #32  
Old 10.01.2019, 17:21
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Re: What happens to the poor who cannot afford to pay a fine in Switzerland?

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Opioides is a broader term including opiate.

Opiates the drugs coming from the opium plant, for example heroin and morphine

Opioides are all natural and synthetic substances that bind to the opioid receptors in the brain, so this group is much bigger than Opiates alone.
And there are also opinions and finally there are onions.
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  #33  
Old 10.01.2019, 18:16
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Re: What happens to the poor who cannot afford to pay a fine in Switzerland?

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And there are also opinions and finally there are onions.
And any of it that doesn't get you high, is not worth a fine.
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  #34  
Old 10.01.2019, 19:53
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Re: What happens to the poor who cannot afford to pay a fine in Switzerland?

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NY Times: How Cities Make Money by Fining the Poor


Is similar thing happening in Swiss justice system? What happens to the poor who cannot afford to pay a fine? Are they locked up, or is the fine somehow postponed/deferred?
They don't have any poor people in CH
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  #35  
Old 10.01.2019, 20:10
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Re: What happens to the poor who cannot afford to pay a fine in Switzerland?

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Yeah. No personal responsibility at all.

It's the man keepin' us down! Feel me dog?
Sounds great, give me a clue what you are on - only for experimental purposes!
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  #36  
Old 10.01.2019, 20:23
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Re: What happens to the poor who cannot afford to pay a fine in Switzerland?

Since you asked!
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  #37  
Old 10.01.2019, 21:34
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Re: What happens to the poor who cannot afford to pay a fine in Switzerland?

free welfare home jail
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  #38  
Old 10.01.2019, 22:21
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Re: What happens to the poor who cannot afford to pay a fine in Switzerland?

Here’s a bit more on why it sucks to be poor in the US:

https://slate.com/human-interest/201...or-people.html
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  #39  
Old 11.01.2019, 04:38
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Re: What happens to the poor who cannot afford to pay a fine in Switzerland?

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Every human has personal responsibility, but each human also has their limits and limitations..which is different for each person either by birth or circumstance.
But do you really want to explain that to people who look down on others (or even worse, find a pleasure in that)....rhetorical question.
Don't bite that bait. It's a never ending discussion.

Last edited by greenmount; 11.01.2019 at 04:50.
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  #40  
Old 11.01.2019, 08:31
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Re: What happens to the poor who cannot afford to pay a fine in Switzerland?

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Opioides is a broader term including opiate.

Opiates the drugs coming from the opium plant, for example heroin and morphine

Opioides are all natural and synthetic substances that bind to the opioid receptors in the brain, so this group is much bigger than Opiates alone.
The problem with that is, it doesn't aply to THC. THC is not an opioid.
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