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-   -   What happens to the poor who cannot afford to pay a fine in Switzerland? (https://www.englishforum.ch/other-general/289124-what-happens-poor-who-cannot-afford-pay-fine-switzerland.html)

yacek 10.01.2019 08:45

What happens to the poor who cannot afford to pay a fine in Switzerland?
 
NY Times: How Cities Make Money by Fining the Poor
Quote:

In many parts of America, like Corinth, Miss., judges are locking up defendants who can’t pay — sometimes for months at a time.
Is similar thing happening in Swiss justice system? What happens to the poor who cannot afford to pay a fine? Are they locked up, or is the fine somehow postponed/deferred?

st2lemans 10.01.2019 08:52

Re: What happens to the poor who cannot afford to pay a fine in Switzerland?
 
Jail.

Tom

Chuff 10.01.2019 09:07

Re: What happens to the poor who cannot afford to pay a fine in Switzerland?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by yacek (Post 3028894)
NY Times: How Cities Make Money by Fining the Poor


Is similar thing happening in Swiss justice system? What happens to the poor who cannot afford to pay a fine? Are they locked up, or is the fine somehow postponed/deferred?

The article starts off with a sob story about how she was exhausted and 'randomly walked into a public library and slumped into a computer cubicle chair'... well, it's likely she was intoxicated (she was caught in possession of drugs previously) so no wonder people called the police if she was sitting there looking like a mess and couldn't be woken.

She will be giving a highly sanitised version of her sob story to the NYT and they will use it to create sympathy. There is no doubt that justice for the rich and poor is not equal, especially with petty crimes that can be paid instantly by those with the means to avoid jail, but in the end why should people with low income have a different set of rules?

People with little financial means who use drugs etc will the vast majority of the time try and avoid paying any fine even if they do have the money so I completely do not sign up to the sentiment that they are all hard done by innocent people deserving of a break.

Urs Max 10.01.2019 09:19

Re: What happens to the poor who cannot afford to pay a fine in Switzerland?
 
I don't understand how this is a money making scheme. In cases like those mentioned in the article the fines and fees never get paid so no income therefrom. Jailing people costs some non-zero amount, so additional costs for the local government. To me this looks very much like a losing game for the city.

So where does the money the city's supposed to generate come from?

curley 10.01.2019 10:19

Re: What happens to the poor who cannot afford to pay a fine in Switzerland?
 
In Zurich there is a place one can go and "work off" a fine. To be able to do that there needs to be a court ruling about the finality of the fine.

This existed already back in the 90-ies, yet I seem to remember it under a different name. I sent many people there who appreciated the solution.
Apparently - according to linked article - it's still unique for Switzerland, hard for me to understand why other cantons don't offer this.

German

Sandgrounder 10.01.2019 10:25

Re: What happens to the poor who cannot afford to pay a fine in Switzerland?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by yacek (Post 3028894)
NY Times: How Cities Make Money by Fining the Poor


Is similar thing happening in Swiss justice system? What happens to the poor who cannot afford to pay a fine? Are they locked up, or is the fine somehow postponed/deferred?

If you are that level of poor in Switzerland you are most likely a social case where you get help managing your money anyway. I guess they have ways of making applications in order that fines, debts, etc., can be split up and paid off over time.

It's not quite the same but when you pay your taxes, you receive slips which give you the choice to pay it off in one chunk or spread it over the year.

bigblue2 10.01.2019 10:28

Re: What happens to the poor who cannot afford to pay a fine in Switzerland?
 
Once a year all debtors are rounded up and ...


http://s3.amazonaws.com/quietus_prod...op_550x371.jpg

bigblue2 10.01.2019 10:29

Re: What happens to the poor who cannot afford to pay a fine in Switzerland?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Urs Max (Post 3028900)
I don't understand how this is a money making scheme. In cases like those mentioned in the article the fines and fees never get paid so no income therefrom. Jailing people costs some non-zero amount, so additional costs for the local government. To me this looks very much like a losing game for the city.

So where does the money the city's supposed to generate come from?

but on a serious note you should read up on the US prison service and what a money making machine it is (for certain people) then you'll understand why such a high % of the US population is in prison.

Swisstobe 10.01.2019 11:47

Re: What happens to the poor who cannot afford to pay a fine in Switzerland?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bigblue2 (Post 3028914)
but on a serious note you should read up on the US prison service and what a money making machine it is (for certain people) then you'll understand why such a high % of the US population is in prison.

Yes and why such a high % of the population turns to drugs and alcoholism due to the fact the system keeps them from getting ahead.

Urs Max 10.01.2019 11:56

Re: What happens to the poor who cannot afford to pay a fine in Switzerland?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bigblue2 (Post 3028914)
but on a serious note you should read up on the US prison service and what a money making machine it is (for certain people) then you'll understand why such a high % of the US population is in prison.

I'm aware. I find the US practice simply inacceptable.

yacek 10.01.2019 12:02

Re: What happens to the poor who cannot afford to pay a fine in Switzerland?
 
So are poor Swiss disproportionately much more often having jail time due to unpaid fines?

Sandgrounder 10.01.2019 12:05

Re: What happens to the poor who cannot afford to pay a fine in Switzerland?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by yacek (Post 3028945)
So are poor Swiss disproportionately much more often having jail time due to unpaid fines?

Based on what information? :confused:

starmir 10.01.2019 12:12

Re: What happens to the poor who cannot afford to pay a fine in Switzerland?
 
Surely this is a job for "Intrum Justitia" ?!

amogles 10.01.2019 12:24

Re: What happens to the poor who cannot afford to pay a fine in Switzerland?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Urs Max (Post 3028900)
I don't understand how this is a money making scheme. In cases like those mentioned in the article the fines and fees never get paid so no income therefrom. Jailing people costs some non-zero amount, so additional costs for the local government. To me this looks very much like a losing game for the city.

So where does the money the city's supposed to generate come from?

I was unable to find any evidence of this on the web, but when I was in Holland last my relatives there told me a story of a milliionaire comedian who didn't want to pay a small fine. He accepted to go to jail instead. But before they could even lock him up properly he said he had changed his mind. So he was realeased from jail. People being released from jail in the evening automatically get a small sum of startiup money because the assumption is they have nowhere to sleep the frirst night. This sum happened to be more then the fine.

st2lemans 10.01.2019 12:48

Re: What happens to the poor who cannot afford to pay a fine in Switzerland?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Swisstobe (Post 3028936)
Yes and why such a high % of the population turns to drugs and alcoholism due to the fact the system keeps them from getting ahead.

What high %? :confused:

Tom

Mica 10.01.2019 14:39

Re: What happens to the poor who cannot afford to pay a fine in Switzerland?
 
Monetary penalties are assessed at a "day rate", which is based on your income, i.e. the judgement is you are fined "x number of day rates" and the day rate is then calculated to arrive at the actual monetary penalty owed. This should, in theory, make it possible for lower income culprits to pay the monetary penalty.

If monetary penalties are not paid, the day rates are converted into number of days in prison.
https://www.admin.ch/opc/en/classifi...index.html#a36

EdwinNL 10.01.2019 14:50

Re: What happens to the poor who cannot afford to pay a fine in Switzerland?
 
Don't do the crime, if you can't do the time.

No more, no less.

slammer 10.01.2019 15:02

Re: What happens to the poor who cannot afford to pay a fine in Switzerland?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by EdwinNL (Post 3029010)
Don't do the crime, if you can't do the time.

No more, no less.

That would be a great guideline if we were all Virtuous and model citizens, thing is we arn´t.

baboon 10.01.2019 15:02

Re: What happens to the poor who cannot afford to pay a fine in Switzerland?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by st2lemans (Post 3028971)
What high %? :confused:

Tom

On drugs:
The US has the 3rd highest rate of opiate useage in the world. Some 2.5 times higher than Switzerland.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...of_opiates_use

On prisons:
Quote:

While the United States represents about 4.4 percent of the world's population, it houses around 22 percent of the world's prisoners.
The US has the absolute highest prison population relative to its population in the world. 655 per 100,000 inhabitants compared to 81 in Switzerland and below 236 for every EU country.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...rceration_rate

EdwinNL 10.01.2019 15:16

Re: What happens to the poor who cannot afford to pay a fine in Switzerland?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by baboon (Post 3029015)
On drugs:
The US has the 3rd highest rate of opiate useage in the world. Some 2.5 times higher than Switzerland.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...of_opiates_use

Opiate is only a part of the whole picture and excludes weed, cocaine and XTC to name just a few.


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