Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Help & tips > Other/general  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 10.01.2019, 07:45
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Vaud
Posts: 1,297
Groaned at 91 Times in 59 Posts
Thanked 1,355 Times in 785 Posts
yacek has a reputation beyond reputeyacek has a reputation beyond reputeyacek has a reputation beyond reputeyacek has a reputation beyond repute
What happens to the poor who cannot afford to pay a fine in Switzerland?

NY Times: How Cities Make Money by Fining the Poor
Quote:
In many parts of America, like Corinth, Miss., judges are locking up defendants who can’t pay — sometimes for months at a time.
Is similar thing happening in Swiss justice system? What happens to the poor who cannot afford to pay a fine? Are they locked up, or is the fine somehow postponed/deferred?
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank yacek for this useful post:
  #2  
Old 10.01.2019, 07:52
st2lemans's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lugano
Posts: 26,434
Groaned at 1,637 Times in 1,257 Posts
Thanked 30,643 Times in 14,630 Posts
st2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond repute
Re: What happens to the poor who cannot afford to pay a fine in Switzerland?

Jail.

Tom
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank st2lemans for this useful post:
  #3  
Old 10.01.2019, 08:07
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Zurich
Posts: 11,554
Groaned at 635 Times in 469 Posts
Thanked 15,423 Times in 6,054 Posts
Chuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond repute
Re: What happens to the poor who cannot afford to pay a fine in Switzerland?

Quote:
View Post
NY Times: How Cities Make Money by Fining the Poor


Is similar thing happening in Swiss justice system? What happens to the poor who cannot afford to pay a fine? Are they locked up, or is the fine somehow postponed/deferred?
The article starts off with a sob story about how she was exhausted and 'randomly walked into a public library and slumped into a computer cubicle chair'... well, it's likely she was intoxicated (she was caught in possession of drugs previously) so no wonder people called the police if she was sitting there looking like a mess and couldn't be woken.

She will be giving a highly sanitised version of her sob story to the NYT and they will use it to create sympathy. There is no doubt that justice for the rich and poor is not equal, especially with petty crimes that can be paid instantly by those with the means to avoid jail, but in the end why should people with low income have a different set of rules?

People with little financial means who use drugs etc will the vast majority of the time try and avoid paying any fine even if they do have the money so I completely do not sign up to the sentiment that they are all hard done by innocent people deserving of a break.
Reply With Quote
The following 5 users would like to thank Chuff for this useful post:
The following 2 users groan at Chuff for this post:
  #4  
Old 10.01.2019, 08:19
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Ostschweiz
Posts: 7,388
Groaned at 244 Times in 207 Posts
Thanked 8,903 Times in 4,657 Posts
Urs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond repute
Re: What happens to the poor who cannot afford to pay a fine in Switzerland?

I don't understand how this is a money making scheme. In cases like those mentioned in the article the fines and fees never get paid so no income therefrom. Jailing people costs some non-zero amount, so additional costs for the local government. To me this looks very much like a losing game for the city.

So where does the money the city's supposed to generate come from?
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Urs Max for this useful post:
  #5  
Old 10.01.2019, 09:19
curley's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: canton ZH
Posts: 9,234
Groaned at 131 Times in 112 Posts
Thanked 9,886 Times in 5,271 Posts
curley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond reputecurley has a reputation beyond repute
Re: What happens to the poor who cannot afford to pay a fine in Switzerland?

In Zurich there is a place one can go and "work off" a fine. To be able to do that there needs to be a court ruling about the finality of the fine.

This existed already back in the 90-ies, yet I seem to remember it under a different name. I sent many people there who appreciated the solution.
Apparently - according to linked article - it's still unique for Switzerland, hard for me to understand why other cantons don't offer this.

German
Reply With Quote
The following 11 users would like to thank curley for this useful post:
  #6  
Old 10.01.2019, 09:25
Sandgrounder's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: ZH
Posts: 13,275
Groaned at 122 Times in 113 Posts
Thanked 23,883 Times in 9,215 Posts
Sandgrounder has a reputation beyond reputeSandgrounder has a reputation beyond reputeSandgrounder has a reputation beyond reputeSandgrounder has a reputation beyond reputeSandgrounder has a reputation beyond reputeSandgrounder has a reputation beyond repute
Re: What happens to the poor who cannot afford to pay a fine in Switzerland?

Quote:
View Post
NY Times: How Cities Make Money by Fining the Poor


Is similar thing happening in Swiss justice system? What happens to the poor who cannot afford to pay a fine? Are they locked up, or is the fine somehow postponed/deferred?
If you are that level of poor in Switzerland you are most likely a social case where you get help managing your money anyway. I guess they have ways of making applications in order that fines, debts, etc., can be split up and paid off over time.

It's not quite the same but when you pay your taxes, you receive slips which give you the choice to pay it off in one chunk or spread it over the year.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Sandgrounder for this useful post:
  #7  
Old 10.01.2019, 09:28
bigblue2's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Glarus
Posts: 7,772
Groaned at 473 Times in 395 Posts
Thanked 13,410 Times in 5,331 Posts
bigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: What happens to the poor who cannot afford to pay a fine in Switzerland?

Once a year all debtors are rounded up and ...


Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank bigblue2 for this useful post:
  #8  
Old 10.01.2019, 09:29
bigblue2's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Glarus
Posts: 7,772
Groaned at 473 Times in 395 Posts
Thanked 13,410 Times in 5,331 Posts
bigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond reputebigblue2 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: What happens to the poor who cannot afford to pay a fine in Switzerland?

Quote:
View Post
I don't understand how this is a money making scheme. In cases like those mentioned in the article the fines and fees never get paid so no income therefrom. Jailing people costs some non-zero amount, so additional costs for the local government. To me this looks very much like a losing game for the city.

So where does the money the city's supposed to generate come from?
but on a serious note you should read up on the US prison service and what a money making machine it is (for certain people) then you'll understand why such a high % of the US population is in prison.
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank bigblue2 for this useful post:
  #9  
Old 10.01.2019, 10:47
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Bern
Posts: 483
Groaned at 47 Times in 26 Posts
Thanked 357 Times in 161 Posts
Swisstobe has earned the respect of manySwisstobe has earned the respect of manySwisstobe has earned the respect of many
Re: What happens to the poor who cannot afford to pay a fine in Switzerland?

Quote:
View Post
but on a serious note you should read up on the US prison service and what a money making machine it is (for certain people) then you'll understand why such a high % of the US population is in prison.
Yes and why such a high % of the population turns to drugs and alcoholism due to the fact the system keeps them from getting ahead.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Swisstobe for this useful post:
  #10  
Old 10.01.2019, 10:56
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Ostschweiz
Posts: 7,388
Groaned at 244 Times in 207 Posts
Thanked 8,903 Times in 4,657 Posts
Urs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond repute
Re: What happens to the poor who cannot afford to pay a fine in Switzerland?

Quote:
View Post
but on a serious note you should read up on the US prison service and what a money making machine it is (for certain people) then you'll understand why such a high % of the US population is in prison.
I'm aware. I find the US practice simply inacceptable.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 10.01.2019, 11:02
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Vaud
Posts: 1,297
Groaned at 91 Times in 59 Posts
Thanked 1,355 Times in 785 Posts
yacek has a reputation beyond reputeyacek has a reputation beyond reputeyacek has a reputation beyond reputeyacek has a reputation beyond repute
Re: What happens to the poor who cannot afford to pay a fine in Switzerland?

So are poor Swiss disproportionately much more often having jail time due to unpaid fines?
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 10.01.2019, 11:05
Sandgrounder's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: ZH
Posts: 13,275
Groaned at 122 Times in 113 Posts
Thanked 23,883 Times in 9,215 Posts
Sandgrounder has a reputation beyond reputeSandgrounder has a reputation beyond reputeSandgrounder has a reputation beyond reputeSandgrounder has a reputation beyond reputeSandgrounder has a reputation beyond reputeSandgrounder has a reputation beyond repute
Re: What happens to the poor who cannot afford to pay a fine in Switzerland?

Quote:
View Post
So are poor Swiss disproportionately much more often having jail time due to unpaid fines?
Based on what information?
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Sandgrounder for this useful post:
  #13  
Old 10.01.2019, 11:12
starmir's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Kanton Zurich
Posts: 361
Groaned at 2 Times in 1 Post
Thanked 345 Times in 154 Posts
starmir has an excellent reputationstarmir has an excellent reputationstarmir has an excellent reputationstarmir has an excellent reputation
Re: What happens to the poor who cannot afford to pay a fine in Switzerland?

Surely this is a job for "Intrum Justitia" ?!
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank starmir for this useful post:
  #14  
Old 10.01.2019, 11:24
amogles's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 10,669
Groaned at 210 Times in 178 Posts
Thanked 20,389 Times in 8,689 Posts
amogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond reputeamogles has a reputation beyond repute
Re: What happens to the poor who cannot afford to pay a fine in Switzerland?

Quote:
View Post
I don't understand how this is a money making scheme. In cases like those mentioned in the article the fines and fees never get paid so no income therefrom. Jailing people costs some non-zero amount, so additional costs for the local government. To me this looks very much like a losing game for the city.

So where does the money the city's supposed to generate come from?
I was unable to find any evidence of this on the web, but when I was in Holland last my relatives there told me a story of a milliionaire comedian who didn't want to pay a small fine. He accepted to go to jail instead. But before they could even lock him up properly he said he had changed his mind. So he was realeased from jail. People being released from jail in the evening automatically get a small sum of startiup money because the assumption is they have nowhere to sleep the frirst night. This sum happened to be more then the fine.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank amogles for this useful post:
  #15  
Old 10.01.2019, 11:48
st2lemans's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lugano
Posts: 26,434
Groaned at 1,637 Times in 1,257 Posts
Thanked 30,643 Times in 14,630 Posts
st2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond repute
Re: What happens to the poor who cannot afford to pay a fine in Switzerland?

Quote:
View Post
Yes and why such a high % of the population turns to drugs and alcoholism due to the fact the system keeps them from getting ahead.
What high %?

Tom
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 10.01.2019, 13:39
Mica's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Zurich
Posts: 751
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 950 Times in 419 Posts
Mica has a reputation beyond reputeMica has a reputation beyond reputeMica has a reputation beyond reputeMica has a reputation beyond reputeMica has a reputation beyond repute
Re: What happens to the poor who cannot afford to pay a fine in Switzerland?

Monetary penalties are assessed at a "day rate", which is based on your income, i.e. the judgement is you are fined "x number of day rates" and the day rate is then calculated to arrive at the actual monetary penalty owed. This should, in theory, make it possible for lower income culprits to pay the monetary penalty.

If monetary penalties are not paid, the day rates are converted into number of days in prison.
https://www.admin.ch/opc/en/classifi...index.html#a36
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Mica for this useful post:
  #17  
Old 10.01.2019, 13:50
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Leimbach, Zürich
Posts: 5,269
Groaned at 299 Times in 235 Posts
Thanked 5,715 Times in 2,898 Posts
EdwinNL has a reputation beyond reputeEdwinNL has a reputation beyond reputeEdwinNL has a reputation beyond reputeEdwinNL has a reputation beyond reputeEdwinNL has a reputation beyond repute
Re: What happens to the poor who cannot afford to pay a fine in Switzerland?

Don't do the crime, if you can't do the time.

No more, no less.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 10.01.2019, 14:02
slammer's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Lummerland
Posts: 4,740
Groaned at 117 Times in 82 Posts
Thanked 7,961 Times in 2,986 Posts
slammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond reputeslammer has a reputation beyond repute
Re: What happens to the poor who cannot afford to pay a fine in Switzerland?

Quote:
View Post
Don't do the crime, if you can't do the time.

No more, no less.
That would be a great guideline if we were all Virtuous and model citizens, thing is we arn´t.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank slammer for this useful post:
  #19  
Old 10.01.2019, 14:02
baboon's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Rheintal
Posts: 3,802
Groaned at 124 Times in 110 Posts
Thanked 5,026 Times in 2,445 Posts
baboon has a reputation beyond reputebaboon has a reputation beyond reputebaboon has a reputation beyond reputebaboon has a reputation beyond reputebaboon has a reputation beyond reputebaboon has a reputation beyond repute
Re: What happens to the poor who cannot afford to pay a fine in Switzerland?

Quote:
View Post
What high %?

Tom
On drugs:
The US has the 3rd highest rate of opiate useage in the world. Some 2.5 times higher than Switzerland.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...of_opiates_use

On prisons:
Quote:
While the United States represents about 4.4 percent of the world's population, it houses around 22 percent of the world's prisoners.
The US has the absolute highest prison population relative to its population in the world. 655 per 100,000 inhabitants compared to 81 in Switzerland and below 236 for every EU country.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...rceration_rate
Reply With Quote
The following 5 users would like to thank baboon for this useful post:
  #20  
Old 10.01.2019, 14:16
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Leimbach, Zürich
Posts: 5,269
Groaned at 299 Times in 235 Posts
Thanked 5,715 Times in 2,898 Posts
EdwinNL has a reputation beyond reputeEdwinNL has a reputation beyond reputeEdwinNL has a reputation beyond reputeEdwinNL has a reputation beyond reputeEdwinNL has a reputation beyond repute
Re: What happens to the poor who cannot afford to pay a fine in Switzerland?

Quote:
View Post
On drugs:
The US has the 3rd highest rate of opiate useage in the world. Some 2.5 times higher than Switzerland.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...of_opiates_use
Opiate is only a part of the whole picture and excludes weed, cocaine and XTC to name just a few.
Reply With Quote
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Cannot afford the rent anymore littlemermaid Housing in general 25 20.07.2018 06:11
What happens to your UBS account once you leave Switzerland to US? shmhs Finance/banking/taxation 19 02.06.2018 16:03
The complete guide to bills and what happens if you don't pay them. Richard Daily life 207 11.04.2015 18:36
What happens to Non EU Permit B while leaving current employer who applied it for u? yezi Permits/visas/government 2 19.07.2012 11:43
What happens if you don't pay for your fine in Switzerland? ilovetoLOL Daily life 17 07.12.2011 19:42


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 15:33.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0