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Old 02.04.2019, 15:55
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Electrical wires (again)

I've seen other threads on this, but I can't see the answer I need. I am trying to fit an external lamp.

On the lamp I've bought, I have the following colours which I think mean the following.

Brown - Live
Green/Yellow - Earth
Blue - Neutral

Coming out of the wall, I have four wires

Black -Live?
Red - Live?
Yellow/Green - Earth
Blue - Neutral

Are my assumed colours correct, and if so, why are there two live wires? Do I just ignore one?
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Old 02.04.2019, 16:02
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Re: Electrical wires (again)

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I've seen other threads on this, but I can't see the answer I need. I am trying to fit an external lamp.

On the lamp I've bought, I have the following colours which I think mean the following.

Brown - Live
Green/Yellow - Earth
Blue - Neutral

Coming out of the wall, I have four wires

Black -Live?
Red - Live?
Yellow/Green - Earth
Blue - Neutral

Are my assumed colours correct, and if so, why are there two live wires? Do I just ignore one?
It would be incredibly stupid to ignore a wire......

Get a tester and find out, it’s probably connected to a wall switch

Get a electrician/handyman and pay him for peace of mind and safety of your family maybe ?
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Old 02.04.2019, 16:21
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It would be incredibly stupid to ignore a wire......

Get a tester and find out, it’s probably connected to a wall switch
Most likely the red is permanently live and the black is switched live, to allow the 3-way sockets with one activated by the wall switch.

But yes, a chf20 tester should be able to confirm this.

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Get a electrician/handyman and pay him for peace of mind and safety of your family maybe ?
I'd hope that this wouldn't be necessary, but yes, if you're not confident or competent enough to use a tester then this would be the obvious solution.
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Old 02.04.2019, 16:23
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Re: Electrical wires (again)

We can only assume the previous electrician used the colors as should be, you however can measure and be certain of this.

Never assume when it comes to electrics.
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Old 02.04.2019, 16:38
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Re: Electrical wires (again)

Thanks, I take the point of getting a tester to check before I do anything.

Regarding the Switched Live and Live, how do I connect them to the light? The light itself as three wires and a simple connecter for each of these. How does one connect four outputs from the wall to the three inputs to the lamp? Put another way, do I connect both lives from the wall to the live from the lamp?

Thanks
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Old 02.04.2019, 16:40
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Re: Electrical wires (again)

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Thanks, I take the point of getting a tester to check before I do anything.

Regarding the Switched Live and Live, how do I connect them to the light? The light itself as three wires and a simple connecter for each of these. How does one connect four outputs from the wall to the three inputs to the lamp? Put another way, do I connect both lives from the wall to the live from the lamp?

Thanks
If you have to ask this you better ask somebody else to do it since you lack the most elemental knowledge.

I'll refrain from any further advice since you would not recognise a screw-up until it burns your fingers or your house.
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Old 02.04.2019, 16:43
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Re: Electrical wires (again)

Thanks, probably better to ask on a DIY forum as it's not technically a Switzerland related question. I guess you're not sure either. At least I'm not burdened by the Dunning Kruger effect :-)
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Old 02.04.2019, 17:20
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Re: Electrical wires (again)

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Regarding the Switched Live and Live, how do I connect them to the light? The light itself as three wires and a simple connecter for each of these. How does one connect four outputs from the wall to the three inputs to the lamp? Put another way, do I connect both lives from the wall to the live from the lamp?
NO!

I think Edwin's advice is probably safest if you're asking such questions. Trial and error is not a good way of learning about home electrics.

The switched live, if that's what it is, is a very Swiss thing, so most (English language) DIY forum members wouldn't be familiar enough with how it's done here, so would only be guessing and allowing you to take the risk.
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Old 02.04.2019, 17:27
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Re: Electrical wires (again)

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NO!

I think Edwin's advice is probably safest if you're asking such questions. Trial and error is not a good way of learning about home electrics.

The switched live, if that's what it is, is a very Swiss thing, so most (English language) DIY forum members wouldn't be familiar enough with how it's done here, so would only be guessing and allowing you to take the risk.
Swiss? How do people in other country's turn the lights on and off?

No offence, but now you got me curious.
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Old 02.04.2019, 17:40
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Re: Electrical wires (again)

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Swiss? How do people in other country's turn the lights on and off?

No offence, but now you got me curious.
I was referring to the Swiss practice of having three power outlet sockets together, one of which is switched for lighting, which leads to the possible confusion demonstrated here.

Elsewhere, in my limited experience in a few other countries, lighting circuits, be they on spurs or ring-main, are usually physically separate from power socket circuits, so you'll normally have just three wires (or five, including the switching pair, for ring mains) at the wall or ceiling point.
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Old 02.04.2019, 17:58
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Re: Electrical wires (again)

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I was referring to the Swiss practice of having three power outlet sockets together, one of which is switched for lighting, which leads to the possible confusion demonstrated here.

Elsewhere, in my limited experience in a few other countries, lighting circuits, be they on spurs or ring-main, are usually physically separate from power socket circuits, so you'll normally have just three wires (or five, including the switching pair, for ring mains) at the wall or ceiling point.
Ah, yeah with the switched wall sockets, that is indeed typical Swiss (I really like them tho, and always made them in my own houses back "home")
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Old 02.04.2019, 18:01
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Re: Electrical wires (again)

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Ah, yeah with the switched wall sockets, that is indeed typical Swiss (I really like them tho, and always made them in my own houses back "home")
My parents have them back in the U.K. and have done so for years.
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Old 02.04.2019, 18:06
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Re: Electrical wires (again)

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Thanks, probably better to ask on a DIY forum as it's not technically a Switzerland related question. I guess you're not sure either. At least I'm not burdened by the Dunning Kruger effect :-)
You might not know but in this topic there are at least two professional electricians responding to you. And we know that people who ask the questions you are asking don't even have the slightest clue of what they are doing and what they all can screw up and have been screwing up since we've seen those things throughout the years.

- Damage the core when removing the isolation - Who cares..
- Tighten the screw to much or to little - Who cares..
- Wire a bit short so pull it out of the wall a bit more while ignoring how connections hold at another point - Who cares..

etc.. etc..

Seems all so meaningless, yet those are the things that actually burn buildings down. And it is you who has no clue what you are doing, yet you call me the person with low ability... You are a joke.
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Old 02.04.2019, 18:16
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Re: Electrical wires (again)

What Edwin says.

Many people think electrics are so simple, anybody can do them.

If you think an electrician is expensive, there is maybe a reason he is expensive.
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Old 02.04.2019, 18:27
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Re: Electrical wires (again)

Does the lamp have a switch?

If so, use the unswitched live, otherwise use the switched live.

Tom
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Old 02.04.2019, 18:57
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Re: Electrical wires (again)

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Seems all so meaningless, yet those are the things that actually burn buildings down. And it is you who has no clue what you are doing, yet you call me the person with low ability... You are a joke.
I think you misunderstood my point. The Dunning Kruger effect is when you don't know that you don't know (well it's more than that but you get my point). My point was that I know that I don't know, which is why I was asking in the first place. So, that joke is rather misplaced. I'm not quite sure why you felt the need to be so aggressive.
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Old 02.04.2019, 20:19
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Re: Electrical wires (again)

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I think you misunderstood my point. The Dunning Kruger effect is when you don't know that you don't know (well it's more than that but you get my point). My point was that I know that I don't know, which is why I was asking in the first place. So, that joke is rather misplaced. I'm not quite sure why you felt the need to be so aggressive.
Not so much aggressive as protective, I feel. Overly so? Possibly, but you bring up the Dunning Kruger effect without apparently accepting that one of the key elements it describes is the inability of an incompetent to accurately gauge their level of incompetence, and your continued questioning along the lines of "should I just connect both the red and the black to the light's live feed?" serve only to reinforce that impression.
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Old 02.04.2019, 20:26
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Re: Electrical wires (again)

Isnt red the + 12V ?
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Old 02.04.2019, 22:46
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Re: Electrical wires (again)

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Not so much aggressive as protective, I feel
Nope, definitely aggressive.

Look, I get it, it's a facet of internet communication where people get off on the wrong foot, and therefore misinterpret other people's words. Because I said I know that I don't know about electrics by saying I think I'm not affected by the Dunning Kruger effect, he assumed that I was saying that I thought he didn't know what he was doing.

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yet you call me the person with low ability... You are a joke
Easy mistake to make, but a mistake nonetheless.

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but you bring up the Dunning Kruger effect without apparently accepting that one of the key elements it describes is the inability of an incompetent to accurately gauge their level of incompetence, and your continued questioning along the lines of "should I just connect both the red and the black to the light's live feed?" serve only to reinforce that impression.
Easy mistake to make as well. I think that might be logical to assume that if I had said that I was ignoring all advice and was going to stick some wires together. But I didn't say that, it was assumed.

We got off on the wrong foot, which is never nice, but if you read what I wrote without making too many assumptions, I was asking BECAUSE not only am I aware that I don't know much about electrics, but I effectively admitted as much.
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Old 02.04.2019, 23:30
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Re: Electrical wires (again)

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I've seen other threads on this, but I can't see the answer I need. I am trying to fit an external lamp.

On the lamp I've bought, I have the following colours which I think mean the following.

Brown - Live
Green/Yellow - Earth
Blue - Neutral

Coming out of the wall, I have four wires

Black -Live?
Red - Live?
Yellow/Green - Earth
Blue - Neutral

Are my assumed colours correct, and if so, why are there two live wires? Do I just ignore one?

Earth to earth, blue to blue, one of the others to the lamp live and see what happens.

Switch the circuit off/remove fuse before starting. If something is wrong you'll likely blow the circuit when switching on again.


PS I drive on summer tyres when it's a bit chilly out so am considered a very high risk taker.
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