Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Help & tips > Other/general  
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 27.11.2019, 21:15
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Zurich
Posts: 61
Groaned at 4 Times in 2 Posts
Thanked 20 Times in 10 Posts
keepsmiling has no particular reputation at present
Carpenter Cheated: Sent invoice of I didn't accepted his offer for Almirah

Hi all,
I went to Ofri to check carpenter offers. Many carpenters visited my apartment and gave final offers.
One of the carpenter was forcing me to take his offer. I didn't like his offer anyways so I rejected it.

In frustration he send me a bill of 900chf and mentioned that he came to my house and prepared offer. This is bill for that.
Now no where I confirmed him that to get an offer he will charge me 900chf.
All the other carpenters who visited home just gave offers.
Only one guy cheated. What to do next with the bill?
This user groans at keepsmiling for this post:
  #2  
Old 27.11.2019, 21:24
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Vaud
Posts: 2,466
Groaned at 175 Times in 122 Posts
Thanked 4,947 Times in 1,902 Posts
Mikers has a reputation beyond reputeMikers has a reputation beyond reputeMikers has a reputation beyond reputeMikers has a reputation beyond reputeMikers has a reputation beyond reputeMikers has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Carpenter Cheated: Sent invoice of I didn't accepted his offer for Almirah

Quote:
View Post
Hi all,
I went to Ofri to check carpenter offers. Many carpenters visited my apartment and gave final offers.
One of the carpenter was forcing me to take his offer. I didn't like his offer anyways so I rejected it.

In frustration he send me a bill of 900chf and mentioned that he came to my house and prepared offer. This is bill for that.
Now no where I confirmed him that to get an offer he will charge me 900chf.
All the other carpenters who visited home just gave offers.
Only one guy cheated. What to do next with the bill?
dont pay there is no contract of service. we have this too occasionally, just tell them there is no contract. if he pushes it just ask him to send across the contract of work agreeing the payment for preparing the quote.
The following 3 users would like to thank Mikers for this useful post:
  #3  
Old 27.11.2019, 21:30
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: ZH
Posts: 7,955
Groaned at 94 Times in 75 Posts
Thanked 12,283 Times in 4,986 Posts
doropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond reputedoropfiz has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Carpenter Cheated: Sent invoice of I didn't accepted his offer for Almirah

First make sure you have read and understood the terms of Ofri, and of that particular carpenter's ad/conditions, according to what he wrote on Ofri. If you are sure there really is nothing in there about his fees for making an offer, write to the carpenter saying:

Letter One
Dear Sir
I received your bill dated DATE in the amount of Fr. 900.
As I did not give you any order to perform any work for me, I am not liable to pay this.

Yours sincerely
YOURNAME
If the carpenter then writes any further bill, reminder, letter or demand, then send
Letter Two
Dear Sir
I received your bill dated DATE in the amount of Fr. 900, and your reminder bill dated DATE.

As I did not give you any order to perform any work for me, I am not liable to pay this.

If you are of the opinion that I owe you money, please provide full documentation of any agreement between us to that effect.

Yours sincerely
YOURNAME
Do not send this letter by e-mail.
Send Letter One on paper, in an envelope.
If you end up needing to send Letter Two, then send it on paper, in an envelope, sent Registered Mail at the Post Office.

I hope that settles is. Please come back and let us know what happened. Thanks.
The following 7 users would like to thank doropfiz for this useful post:
  #4  
Old 28.11.2019, 13:13
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Zurich
Posts: 61
Groaned at 4 Times in 2 Posts
Thanked 20 Times in 10 Posts
keepsmiling has no particular reputation at present
Re: Carpenter Cheated: Sent invoice of I didn't accepted his offer for Almirah

Thankw, Only thing I am worried is that this guy raises a Betreibung. Then what I have to do.

There is no written contract that I pay for offer preparation.
  #5  
Old 28.11.2019, 13:16
st2lemans's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lugano
Posts: 31,788
Groaned at 2,368 Times in 1,722 Posts
Thanked 38,746 Times in 18,256 Posts
st2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Carpenter Cheated: Sent invoice of I didn't accepted his offer for Almirah

Quote:
View Post
There is no written contract that I pay for offer preparation.
It doesn't need to be written.

Tom
  #6  
Old 28.11.2019, 13:23
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Carpenter Cheated: Sent invoice of I didn't accepted his offer for Almirah

Quote:
View Post
It doesn't need to be written.

Tom
True, but who claims has the burden of proof.
The following 2 users would like to thank for this useful post:
  #7  
Old 28.11.2019, 14:01
st2lemans's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lugano
Posts: 31,788
Groaned at 2,368 Times in 1,722 Posts
Thanked 38,746 Times in 18,256 Posts
st2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Carpenter Cheated: Sent invoice of I didn't accepted his offer for Almirah

Quote:
View Post
First make sure you have read and understood the terms of Ofri, and of that particular carpenter's ad/conditions, according to what he wrote on Ofri.
This.

Tom
This user would like to thank st2lemans for this useful post:
  #8  
Old 28.11.2019, 14:15
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Kanton Luzern
Posts: 16,008
Groaned at 551 Times in 432 Posts
Thanked 23,700 Times in 9,578 Posts
Tom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Carpenter Cheated: Sent invoice of I didn't accepted his offer for Almirah

Quote:
View Post
First make sure you have read and understood the terms of Ofri, and of that particular carpenter's ad/conditions, according to what he wrote on Ofri.
It may be worth the OP contacting Ofri (if the terms and conditions are unclear) and possibly, after clarification, making a complaint about the carpenter and getting the demands withdrawn.

Other web companies offering such services expect the quotes to be free.

Any tradesman worth considering would not consider offering a quote, without visiting the premises first to give an accurate quote (unless for a very simple job).
The fact that they don't get paid for these quotes is a business decision they need to make weighed against the extra work they receive through using such web companies.
  #9  
Old 28.11.2019, 14:18
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Carpenter Cheated: Sent invoice of I didn't accepted his offer for Almirah

You can also call: 044 520 51 64 and ask Ofri about this practice off one of their members.

Their site nowhere mentions costs for offers and clearly mentions on the homepage that offers are free.

So unless this guy made it very clear upfront to you that there would be costs associated with making an offer he can kiss his bill goodbye.

I'd say he is just a scam. 900,- for a single visit and an offer? What did you ask for?
  #10  
Old 28.11.2019, 14:44
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Carpenter Cheated: Sent invoice of I didn't accepted his offer for Almirah

Quote:
True, but who claims has the burden of proof.

The fact the carpenter was their, can accurately describe the work that was requested, describe the actual place, know the name of the person occupying the space, tend sot suggest he may have been their once or twice.....
This user would like to thank for this useful post:
  #11  
Old 28.11.2019, 14:50
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 8,409
Groaned at 296 Times in 225 Posts
Thanked 19,355 Times in 6,733 Posts
k_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond reputek_and_e has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Carpenter Cheated: Sent invoice of I didn't accepted his offer for Almirah

https://www.ofri.ch/how_it_works_for_employer


Quote:
Auftraggeber - so geht's
Ofri hat für Sie die beste Lösung konzipiert, damit Sie einfach und bequem die richtige Person für Ihren Auftrag finden. In wenigen Minuten können Sie einen Auftrag eingeben und erhalten kostenlos sowie unverbindlich Offerten von interessierten Anbietern.
Schritt 1: Auftrag eingeben

Einfach Auftragsbeschreibung eingeben und Offertanfrage starten. Sie erhalten darauf Angebote von interessierten Anbietern. Offene Punkte können Sie mit den Auftragnehmern über den Fragen- und Antworten-Bereich klären.

Schritt 2: Auftrag vergeben

Wählen Sie die beste Offerte aus und lassen Sie den Auftragnehmer die Arbeit ausführen. Die Offerten sind kostenlos und unverbindlich, wenn Sie keine passende gefunden haben müssen Sie keine auswählen.

Schritt 3: Auftragnehmer bewerten

Nach Ausführung der Arbeiten können Sie den Auftragnehmer bewerten. So helfen Sie anderen Mitgliedern von Ofri gute und zuverlässige Anbieter zu finden.

Das ist schon alles. Schauen Sie sich doch einige aktuelle Auftragsanfragen an und sehen, wie einfach es ist auf Ofri die richtige Person für ihren Auftrag zu finden. Oder geben Sie gleich Ihren Auftrag ein.
The following 6 users would like to thank k_and_e for this useful post:
  #12  
Old 28.11.2019, 14:50
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Kanton Luzern
Posts: 16,008
Groaned at 551 Times in 432 Posts
Thanked 23,700 Times in 9,578 Posts
Tom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Carpenter Cheated: Sent invoice of I didn't accepted his offer for Almirah

Quote:
The fact the carpenter was their, can accurately describe the work that was requested, describe the actual place, know the name of the person occupying the space, tend sot suggest he may have been their once or twice.....
I don't think anyone's denying this.
  #13  
Old 28.11.2019, 15:01
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Carpenter Cheated: Sent invoice of I didn't accepted his offer for Almirah

Edwin N L was asking who had burden of proof
  #14  
Old 28.11.2019, 15:05
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Carpenter Cheated: Sent invoice of I didn't accepted his offer for Almirah

Quote:
The fact the carpenter was their, can accurately describe the work that was requested, describe the actual place, know the name of the person occupying the space, tend sot suggest he may have been their once or twice.....
Proof as in that he made the customer aware of the costs involved in making the offer when declined.

That he was there and made an offer is disputed by nobody, the dispute is about if the costs are fair, and this is for the carpenter to proof since he makes the claim.
  #15  
Old 28.11.2019, 15:14
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Carpenter Cheated: Sent invoice of I didn't accepted his offer for Almirah

Quote:
Edwin N L was asking who had burden of proof
I wasn't asking.
  #16  
Old 28.11.2019, 15:25
Jim2007's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Kt. Bern
Posts: 4,508
Groaned at 217 Times in 171 Posts
Thanked 7,421 Times in 3,283 Posts
Jim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Carpenter Cheated: Sent invoice of I didn't accepted his offer for Almirah

Quote:
I'd say he is just a scam. 900,- for a single visit and an offer? What did you ask for?
You are right it is a scam and should be reported to the police as such.... had one of those years ago when doing up the house and it went away PDQ once the builder understood what would happen if he did not send me written confirmation that no such amount was due and that the 'mistake' was all on his side.
This user would like to thank Jim2007 for this useful post:
  #17  
Old 28.11.2019, 15:37
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Zurich
Posts: 61
Groaned at 4 Times in 2 Posts
Thanked 20 Times in 10 Posts
keepsmiling has no particular reputation at present
Re: Carpenter Cheated: Sent invoice of I didn't accepted his offer for Almirah

He has no proof about the costs. He didn't told before. He is just frustrated that I am not giving him the contract.
  #18  
Old 28.11.2019, 15:54
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: CH
Posts: 10,975
Groaned at 2,032 Times in 1,120 Posts
Thanked 5,139 Times in 3,246 Posts
omtatsat omtatsat omtatsat omtatsat omtatsat
Re: Carpenter Cheated: Sent invoice of I didn't accepted his offer for Almirah

Quote:
View Post
He has no proof about the costs. He didn't told before. He is just frustrated that I am not giving him the contract.
Simply threaten him that you will report the matter to the police if he continues. Write a letter to him and it must be sent registered mail
  #19  
Old 28.11.2019, 16:09
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Kanton Luzern
Posts: 16,008
Groaned at 551 Times in 432 Posts
Thanked 23,700 Times in 9,578 Posts
Tom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Carpenter Cheated: Sent invoice of I didn't accepted his offer for Almirah

Quote:
Proof as in that he made the customer aware of the costs involved in making the offer when declined.

That he was there and made an offer is disputed by nobody, the dispute is about if the costs are fair, and this is for the carpenter to proof since he makes the claim.
None of this matters.

Tradespeople offering quotes through Ofri are required to give free quotes.


Of course if they have any business accumen, they'll cover the time and effort involved in this in their per-hour rate or by some other means.
  #20  
Old 28.11.2019, 16:27
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Lugano
Posts: 1,114
Groaned at 17 Times in 15 Posts
Thanked 1,342 Times in 613 Posts
LuganoPirate has a reputation beyond reputeLuganoPirate has a reputation beyond reputeLuganoPirate has a reputation beyond reputeLuganoPirate has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Carpenter Cheated: Sent invoice of I didn't accepted his offer for Almirah

Seems to me he is desperate for business and hopes to frighten you, as a foreigner, into paying. Besides CHF 900 to make an offer is outrageous.

Firmly resist paying as others have suggested, and if he does issue a "Betreibung" then you must immediately make an objection, and state your reason for doing so. It will eventually go to a hearing but i doubt he'll go to the extra expense of issuing one. But you must make your objections to his invoice and you must do it by registered mail, keeping copies. It will be useful if you also ask for proof of delivery, though i think now with the Post app you can see this is and keep a record of it.

You've nothing to fear from the betreibung unless you are made to pay and don't do so. It will not go against you at this stage.
This user would like to thank LuganoPirate for this useful post:
 




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
How bad it is to decline a job offer initially accepted? happyrobbie Employment 14 01.12.2019 09:55
Sudden new job offer while earlier one already accepted... Maciej Employment 7 10.01.2018 23:04
Cheated by builder tintin26 Housing in general 32 03.01.2016 13:51
Applied for school place, didn't take it up, didn't inform school. Must we pay? coffee123 Family matters/health 22 28.08.2011 09:02
Being Cheated by CableCom borntough Complaints corner 18 19.10.2010 22:09


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 08:36.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0