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Old 06.04.2020, 10:30
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Gas Grill Newbie Problem

Hi,

I'm an absolute beginner in BBQ and grills, so I thought to seek advice here.

We bought a gas grill last summer and took a Vitogas capsule(bottle?) from the nearby petrol station to use with it. All apparently went well and we used the grill once.

But we didn't grill anything till last weekend, and when we tried, the flame went off after a few minutes of working, because there was no gas remaining in the capsule (I weighed it: ~8Kg vs. ~13Kg full).

So have we done something wrong, e.g. fastenings, the hose, etc.? I just followed the grill's instruction manual :-/ Or it's normal and the capsule empties anyway after say 9 months or so.

Any expert hint is more than welcome!

Thanks
Best

Last edited by higgsboson; 06.04.2020 at 11:21.
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Old 06.04.2020, 10:36
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Re: Gas Grill Newbie Problem

I'm using the same gas capsule for two years now.
Most important is to close the capsule itself, not only the grill.
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Old 06.04.2020, 10:42
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Re: Gas Grill Newbie Problem

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Most important is to close the capsule itself, not only the grill.
That, and keep a spare on hand.

I always close the bottle first, and then the grill, to eliminate any in the lines.

Tom
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Old 06.04.2020, 10:43
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Re: Gas Grill Newbie Problem

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That, and keep a spare on hand.

Tom
And don't smoke anywhere near the grill when it leaks so much
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Old 06.04.2020, 11:20
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Re: Gas Grill Newbie Problem

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Most important is to close the capsule itself, not only the grill.
I did that. Is there an idiot-proof way to check for leakage?
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Old 06.04.2020, 11:31
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Re: Gas Grill Newbie Problem

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I did that. Is there an idiot-proof way to check for leakage?
Rub washing up liquid copiously around the fittings and look closely for any air (gas) bubbles. If you see them you know where the leak is.

Very important, as Tom says, to turn off the gas firmly at the cylinder. That tap is more reliable than the ones on the grill.

When you buy the bottle the top should be sealed so always check that also.

Happy braaing as they say in South Africa.
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Old 06.04.2020, 11:32
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Re: Gas Grill Newbie Problem

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I did that. Is there an idiot-proof way to check for leakage?
Yes, with a bit of dishwasher soap and water you can easily make a foam. Put that on the connection points and check if you see bubbles.
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Old 06.04.2020, 11:40
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Re: Gas Grill Newbie Problem

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I did that. Is there an idiot-proof way to check for leakage?
I would start with a visual and push/pull inspection of the gas line (normally orange colour) at the end going into the burner.

Second, look at push/pull on the hose end that connects to the regulator (the round brass looking thing).

Third, I would unscrew the regulator from the bottle and rethread it (reverse thread of course) and make sure that it goes all the way on. I use the leverage of the gas regulator at the end to make sure it is well seated. Of course since the bottle is empty, you will be doing this with the new bottle. I do this before I install the bottle on the spot where it sits. I have better control this way.

Even if everything is well fitted, the pressure from the bottle (if left open between uses) will probably push gas through the system. Hence the method mentioned which is to turn the valve on the bottle to the closed position when you are finished cooking. The valve on the bottle is strong enough to keep the gas in.

To check for potential leakage you could spray the connection points and the hose (small hole?) with water and check for any bubbles. Not the neatest option but you might get lucky.

Another possible option. Did the bottle have a seal over the valve when you bought it? The ones I get from Migros do. This way you are sure it is a full bottle. Did you maybe get an almost empty bottle by mistake?
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Old 06.04.2020, 11:41
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Re: Gas Grill Newbie Problem

Did you buy your grill from abroad or was shipped from abroad?


Important Safety Notice:

Fittings used in Switzerland and fittings used in Germany/Austria are similar and seemingly "fit" (same thread and diameter) but can not be used safely interchangeably. Doing so is dangerous and can lead to a deadly fire.

In the Swiss system the rubber seal is in the regulator side fitting.
In the German/Austrian system the rubber seal is on the bottle.

Danger: Risk of Explosion!
Screwing a German/Austrian regulator on a Swiss bottle means there is no rubber seal. A dangerous gas leak is possible.

In addition: Grills sold in Germany have gas jet optimized for 50 mBar (smaller drill). Grills sold in Switzerland have a gas jet optimized for 30 mBar (larger drill). Using a German grill with a standard 30 mBar Swiss regulator will run cold and might not produce enough heat.

Not sure if fully "to code" but there are adapters with seals on both sides which allows to use a German type regulator on a Swiss bottle:
https://www.gastankflasche.ch/zubeho...hmeventil.html

Otherwise, which is safer as someone might leave the adapter on an old empty bottle if they exchange it for a new full one, buy a 50 mBar regulator (Check the grills txpe lable what regulator you need).
https://www.migros-service.ch/de/e/9...ler-50mbar-1-4
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Last edited by aSwissInTheUS; 06.04.2020 at 18:44.
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Old 06.04.2020, 12:20
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Re: Gas Grill Newbie Problem

It's actually very simple why your gas bottle is empty.



You left it out all winter in the cold, the fitting on the regulator is brass and the cylinder is steel


They contract at different temperatures and this is where the leak is occurring.



Next year, wrap and old jumper or towel around the valve, but the most important is to close the valve each time you use the grill.
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Old 06.04.2020, 12:51
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Re: Gas Grill Newbie Problem

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It's actually very simple why your gas bottle is empty.



You left it out all winter in the cold, the fitting on the regulator is brass and the cylinder is steel


They contract at different temperatures and this is where the leak is occurring.
Sorry, but this is nonsense. Those bottles are ment to be stored outside even in winter. And minus 10, 20 or even 30 Celsius does not make the valve leak (if it does the thing is faulty and should be replaced).

Also if you want to advise people how to seal of a bottle in an extra way advise them a proper cap which is made for such instead of "wrap a towel around it", which is completely useless.
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Old 06.04.2020, 13:17
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Re: Gas Grill Newbie Problem

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Also if you want to advise people how to seal of a bottle in an extra way advise them a proper cap which is made for such instead of "wrap a towel around it", which is completely useless.
I just love the naivety that thinks that wrapping a towel round an inanimate object would stop it from getting cold over winter. How that's supposed to work I have no idea...

Last edited by Guest; 06.04.2020 at 13:37. Reason: typo
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Old 06.04.2020, 13:17
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Re: Gas Grill Newbie Problem

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Sorry, but this is nonsense. Those bottles are ment to be stored outside even in winter. And minus 10, 20 or even 30 Celsius does not make the valve leak (if it does the thing is faulty and should be replaced).

Also if you want to advise people how to seal of a bottle in an extra way advise them a proper cap which is made for such instead of "wrap a towel around it", which is completely useless.

Wrapping the towel around the valve in winter is to keep it warm to avoid the leak from the brass/steel fitting quite simply.


It will do absolutely nothing to prevent a leak though if a leak is present, this part i agree with.


Anyway, i'm sure you know best Edwin, you seem to know about most things
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Old 06.04.2020, 13:27
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Re: Gas Grill Newbie Problem

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Wrapping the towel around the valve in winter is to keep it warm to avoid the leak from the brass/steel fitting quite simply.


It will do absolutely nothing to prevent a leak though if a leak is present, this part i agree with.


Anyway, i'm sure you know best Edwin, you seem to know about most things
Since you seem to possess so much knowledge about this, and all I know for example is doing safety checks on factories including gas bottle storages. And also have done pressure tests on valves, manifolds and cylinders for years.
Explain to us how a towel outside in winter keeps a valve warm? Do you go out every hour with a new wet towel out of the microwave and wrap that around it.

Use your brain I'd say....
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Old 06.04.2020, 13:30
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Re: Gas Grill Newbie Problem

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I just love the naivety that thinks that wrapping a towel round an inanimate object would stop it from getting cold over winter. How that's supposed to work I nave no idea...
I do:



Magic
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Old 06.04.2020, 13:34
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Re: Gas Grill Newbie Problem

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Yes, with a bit of dishwasher soap and water you can easily make a foam. Put that on the connection points and check if you see bubbles.
Actually, just the dish soap and no water works best.

Tom
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Old 06.04.2020, 13:36
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Re: Gas Grill Newbie Problem

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I just love the naivety that thinks that wrapping a towel round an inanimate object would stop it from getting cold over winter. How that's supposed to work I nave no idea...
There was a minor instruction forgotten, it should be a well used towel with an (un)healthy amount of bacterial/microorganism activity.
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Old 06.04.2020, 13:37
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Re: Gas Grill Newbie Problem

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There was a minor instruction forgotten, it should be a well used towel with an (un)healthy amount of bacterial/microorganism activity.
Better to place it in the biowaste pile :P
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Old 06.04.2020, 15:42
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Re: Gas Grill Newbie Problem

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Did you buy your grill from abroad or was shipped from abroad?


Important Safety Notice:

Fittings used in Switzerland and fittings used in Germany/Austria are similar and seemingly "fit" (same thread and diameter) but can not be used safely interchangeably. Doing so is dangerous and can lead to a deadly fire.

In the Swiss system the rubber seal is in the regulator side fitting.
In the German/Austrian system the rubber seal is on the bottle.

Danger: Risk of Explosion!
Screwing a German/Austrian regulator on a Swiss bottle means there is no rubber seal. A dangerous gas leak is possible.

In addition: Grills sold in Germany have gas jet optimized for 50 mBar (smaller drill). Grills sold in Switzerland have a gas jet optimized for 30 mBar (larger drill). Using a German grill with a standard 30 mBar Swiss regulator will run cold and might not produce enough heat.

Not sure if fully "to code" but there are adapters with seals on both sides which allows to use a German type regulator on a Swiss bottle:
https://www.gastankflasche.ch/zubeho...hmeventil.html
That is indeed the case (i.e. the grill was shipped from abroad). Many thanks. I will stop using the grill then until I buy this thing!

Last edited by higgsboson; 06.04.2020 at 15:59.
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Old 06.04.2020, 15:51
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Re: Gas Grill Newbie Problem

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In the Swiss system the rubber seal is in the regulator side fitting.
In the German/Austrian system the rubber seal is on the bottle.
Mine has seals both on the bottle and the regulator.

Tom
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