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Old 27.09.2020, 10:34
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Re: Rip rgb

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Yes, it is nice to see more females in government, but at the same time, I don't think that someone's gender necessarily equates to them being a decent person or someone who will fight for more equality or more civil liberties and individual rights. I think there are more important issues on the table right now in terms of "equal representation" in the US government, and particularly if Trump is re-elected and the GOP keeps control of the Senate, especially considering the fact that the Supreme Court is now even more conservative.
I am sorry to say but if you dont find equal gender representation important than we have nothing to discuss. Just imagine if we would always say that there are more important issues than fighting for equal representation. Can you imagine if we went everywhere for merits, rather than gender, what this world would look like?

The gender equality, same as racial equality is of utmost importance. And we are nowhere near having a racial equality among the justices.

Last edited by mikedragos; 27.09.2020 at 13:18.
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  #142  
Old 27.09.2020, 11:31
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Re: Rip rgb

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I have read other articles on Barrett basically attesting that her interpretation of the law overrides her faith. Interesting, as Kavenaugh, has not voted conservative as most would have predicted but more moderately. Perhaps she will do the same? One can only hope!
Barrett's extreme conservatism apprears to override her Catholicism. Or I should say, she belongs to a faction of Catholicism that many of us find inconsistant with the message of the gospels.

Her views are about as far from 'Feed the hungry, clothe the naked, shelter the stranger, comfort the afflicted' as you can get.

Make no mistake, she is a Federalist Society darling for her extreme social and political conservatism.

To me the most telling thing is her assertion that Catholic judges should recuse themselves from death penalty cases.

The Church and I have been at loggerheads over many issues, but the one thing I grudgingly admire about it's pro-life stance is pro-life means just that, all phases of life are sacred and should be supported. Catholic pro-life commits to society supporting anti-poverty programs, providing health care, supporting education, supporting environmental policy needed to sustain this planet, and is firmly anti death penalty. If life is sacred, it is not man's to take. One may not agree, but unlike other conservative groups at least the Church is consistant in this stance.

Coney Barrett's assertion that a Catholic judge whose faith means that he or she cannot impose the death penalty should recuse him or her self is to me a cynical get-around to signal support for the death penalty.

So yeah - her interpretation of the law may well override many tenents of Catholicsm. Because she does not appear to share them.

I don't find that a good thing.

---

I will be thrilled to be proven wrong.


ETA:

This isn't about religious affiliation. Afterall, Sonia Sotomayor, considered liberal, is also Catholic. As are Roberts, Alito, Thomas, and Kavanaugh. (Gorsuch ws raised Catholic, but is now believed to be an Episcopalian.) That's a pretty diverse range of views along the political spectrum.

Rather this is about the move towards the extreme right, and it's implictions.

Last edited by meloncollie; 27.09.2020 at 12:04.
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  #143  
Old 27.09.2020, 12:32
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Re: Rip rgb

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I have read other articles on Barrett basically attesting that her interpretation of the law overrides her faith. Interesting, as Kavenaugh, has not voted conservative as most would have predicted but more moderately. Perhaps she will do the same? One can only hope!
A good judge will follow the rule of law and should not allow his faith or politics to dictate his decision. A real conservative interprets the constitution and not the latest political trend
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  #144  
Old 27.09.2020, 13:41
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Re: Rip rgb

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A good judge will follow the rule of law and should not allow his faith or politics to dictate his decision. A real conservative interprets the constitution and not the latest political trend
That makes a great sound byte, but reality is less simple.

The original constitution didn't consider women as equals to men. Technically it still doesn't as the ERA never was ratified by enough states. The original constitution also didn't count slaves as full human beings. It allowed some people to own other people as property.

Sometimes the law is wrong. As human beings, judges will inevitably draw on personal beliefs/faith to make decisions about what is right or wrong with a particular law.
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Old 27.09.2020, 15:20
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Re: Rip rgb

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That makes a great sound byte, but reality is less simple.

The original constitution didn't consider women as equals to men. Technically it still doesn't as the ERA never was ratified by enough states. The original constitution also didn't count slaves as full human beings. It allowed some people to own other people as property.

Sometimes the law is wrong. As human beings, judges will inevitably draw on personal beliefs/faith to make decisions about what is right or wrong with a particular law.
It is however not the job of the Supreme Court to make changes or amendments to the constitution. For that we have congress and the states.

There is no reason to mention supreme court and constitutional amendments in the same sentence

Last edited by kiwiguy08; 27.09.2020 at 15:32.
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  #146  
Old 27.09.2020, 16:45
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Re: Rip rgb

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I am sorry to say but if you dont find equal gender representation important than we have nothing to discuss. Just imagine if we would always say that there are more important issues than fighting for equal representation. Can you imagine if we went everywhere for merits, rather than gender, what this world would look like?

The gender equality, same as racial equality is of utmost importance. And we are nowhere near having a racial equality among the justices.
You misinterpreted what I wrote. I never said that I didn't think that equal gender representation is important. I said that just because someone is female doesn't mean that they stand for women's rights (that they are pro-choice). I have seen men fight for women's rights and I have seen females fight against them (particularly when it comes to abortion). Also, my other point was that I don't think that having an equal number of females and males in government is our biggest concern right now in terms of balance.
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  #147  
Old 27.09.2020, 17:06
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Re: Rip rgb

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To me the most telling thing is her assertion that Catholic judges should recuse themselves from death penalty cases.

The Church and I have been at loggerheads over many issues, but the one thing I grudgingly admire about it's pro-life stance is pro-life means just that, all phases of life are sacred and should be supported. Catholic pro-life commits to society supporting anti-poverty programs, providing health care, supporting education, supporting environmental policy needed to sustain this planet, and is firmly anti death penalty. If life is sacred, it is not man's to take. One may not agree, but unlike other conservative groups at least the Church is consistant in this stance.

Coney Barrett's assertion that a Catholic judge whose faith means that he or she cannot impose the death penalty should recuse him or her self is to me a cynical get-around to signal support for the death penalty.
Isn't it the case that a juror, who firmly opposes death penalty for moral reasons, should recuse himself from the juror duty? I don't see how refusing to consider a death penalty is a proof for supporting such punishment. What else should she say or do to convince you that she does not support it?
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  #148  
Old 27.09.2020, 20:05
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Re: Rip rgb

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It is however not the job of the Supreme Court to make changes or amendments to the constitution. For that we have congress and the states.

There is no reason to mention supreme court and constitutional amendments in the same sentence
I never said it was the job of the SCOTUS to make changes or amendments to the constitution. I think you misinterpreted what I wrote.

I said sometimes the law is wrong, and that's where courts make a ruling. The Constitution was the first law of the land, and the SCOTUS has to decide whether laws that are argued before the Court are constitutional or not.

If one takes your simplified view, any law that goes or went against the original constitution should be struck down because the law as it was written the law. Punkt. End of. Therefore women shouldn't have equal rights, blacks are only worth 3/5ths of a person, etc. It's not nearly that easy.

The interpretation of the Constitution has changed over the last few hundred years. Some amendments to the Constitution came about in order to overrule the Supreme Court. In fact, the Court itself has overruled more than 300 of its own cases over the years.
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  #149  
Old 27.09.2020, 20:40
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Re: Rip rgb

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Then the credit goes to him. I find it of utmost importance that there is an equal gender representation in all spheres of public life, and is good that the POTUS recognizes that.
There's no reason for this, the key metric should be the distribution of the sexes in the subgroup they're recruited from, adjusted for ambitiousness, competence, etc.

Hospital nurses are 70-80-90% female. If the women are equally ambitious as the men, the distribution of the sexes among their team leaders (assuming they're former nurses) should be similar. Likewise engineers, who are 80-90-95% male, it makes exactly zero sense to demand that half their teamleaders should be female.
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  #150  
Old 27.09.2020, 21:24
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Re: Rip rgb

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But then I stumbled upon some articles recently that contain past statements of hers in regard to abortion rights which do seem to offer a slight glimmer of hope in terms of the preservation of Roe versus Wade.
But isn't the whole point about Roe vs Wade, and one of the reason it gets talked about so much, that it is pretty much absolute and doesn't allow many meaningful loopholes to create laws limiting, say, late-term abortions.

In other words, taking action on late term abortions needs going after Roe vs Wade first. Which is unthinkable and unnacceptable to progressives. In other words, its a total standoff.
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Old 27.09.2020, 22:51
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Re: Rip rgb

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You misinterpreted what I wrote. I never said that I didn't think that equal gender representation is important. I said that just because someone is female doesn't mean that they stand for women's rights (that they are pro-choice). I have seen men fight for women's rights and I have seen females fight against them (particularly when it comes to abortion). Also, my other point was that I don't think that having an equal number of females and males in government is our biggest concern right now in terms of balance.
You cannot seriously be saying that the gender balance, let alone racial equality is not the top priority.

This is and always has to be the biggest concern in all spheres of any modern society.
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  #152  
Old 27.09.2020, 23:00
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Re: Rip rgb

If you’re going to talk about Abortions in the third trimester of pregnancy, then please get the terminology right.

There is no medical procedure called “late term abortion”, it’s a marketing term, a frame dreamed up by opponents of abortion to create a negative and depraved image.

You can read about it all over the internet....but here’s a link

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/02/06/h...ner/index.html

Late term refers to pregnancy lasting more than 40 weeks, late term abortion has no existence in reality.

According to the CDC (2015 numbers) about 90% of all abortions in the US occur before or ay 13 weeks (first trimester). Only 1.3% of abortions occur after 21 weeks, so less than 1% occur in the 3rd trimester. Most abortions in the 3rd trimester occur because something wrong has been identified -severe illness, malformation, or the mother is at severe risk.

Abortions in the 2nd trimester are often in poorer mothers and are often a consequence of access.

Abortiion opponents like to frame third trimester abortions as the frivolous wish of an immoral person, but they are rare, and are most often for serious medical reasons.
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  #153  
Old 27.09.2020, 23:55
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Re: Rip rgb

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But isn't the whole point about Roe vs Wade, and one of the reason it gets talked about so much, that it is pretty much absolute and doesn't allow many meaningful loopholes to create laws limiting, say, late-term abortions.

In other words, taking action on late term abortions needs going after Roe vs Wade first. Which is unthinkable and unnacceptable to progressives. In other words, its a total standoff.
Actually, in Roe v Wade the Court treats the three trimesters differently, weighing a woman's right to privacy against the state's interest in protecting potential viable life. A summary here:

https://supreme.findlaw.com/supreme-...d-to-know.html

Quoting from this article:

The Court created a framework to balance the state's interests with women's privacy rights. Acknowledging that the rights of pregnant women may conflict with the rights of the state to protect potential human life, the Court defined the rights of each party by dividing pregnancy into three 12-week trimesters:

During a pregnant woman's first trimester, the Court held, a state cannot regulate abortion beyond requiring that the procedure be performed by a licensed doctor in medically safe conditions.

During the second trimester, the Court held, a state may regulate abortion if the regulations are reasonably related to the health of the pregnant woman.

During the third trimester of pregnancy, the state's interest in protecting the potential human life outweighs the woman's right to privacy. As a result, the state may prohibit abortions unless abortion is necessary to save the life or health of the mother.
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  #154  
Old 28.09.2020, 09:51
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Re: Rip rgb

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I am sorry to say but if you dont find equal gender representation important than we have nothing to discuss. Just imagine if we would always say that there are more important issues than fighting for equal representation. Can you imagine if we went everywhere for merits, rather than gender, what this world would look like?
.
I think you have some really strong prejudices....you can go for more balanced gender representation and merits, saying you go only for the former and not for the latter implies you think you can't find competent female justices and you have to do them some favours. I personally dislike both positive and negative discrimination.
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  #155  
Old 27.10.2020, 09:05
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Re: Rip rgb

Amy's in!

https://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2020-54700307

Tom
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Old 27.10.2020, 12:08
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Re: Rip rgb

R.I.P. America. You had a good run. No more democracy for you.
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Old 27.10.2020, 12:28
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R.I.P. America. You had a good run. No more democracy for you.
Until Biden sticks in another few next year. Question being whether he puts in 2 to bring balance or goes overboard and tries to put in 3 or 4.
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Old 27.10.2020, 12:38
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Re: Rip rgb

Trump delivers again
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Old 27.10.2020, 13:03
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Re: Rip rgb

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Until Biden sticks in another few next year. Question being whether he puts in 2 to bring balance or goes overboard and tries to put in 3 or 4.
First, Biden has to win.

Then, some other people have to die or retire.

Tom
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Old 27.10.2020, 13:14
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Re: Rip rgb

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First, Biden has to win.

Then, some other people have to die or retire.

Tom
Hypothetical situation being that Biden wins and the democrats gain a congress majority, he can then change the number of Supreme Court Justices as the number is not set in stone*. This is why the topic of "packing" the supreme court has been brought up as a question to Biden a few times.
There could be uproar if he did it, but he would be within his rights to do so (If he wins and there is a congress majority).

*Edit - As far as I know the number can only go up without deaths and retirements.
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