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  #81  
Old 17.08.2021, 15:34
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Re: Zürich to Munich

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Very upfront and direct, at least business-related (please keep in mind that this is only from one person, with a mere few months of experience).
I had a few e-mails, from clients and from colleagues, which went:
"Hello Squeeeez,
You need to do this, this, this and this.
Bye,
Name"


and for someone who is more used to a latin way of communication, or even US/international/whatever international really means, it can be a slight shock. No reasons mentioned, no polite fluffiness, no nothing.
i also had that shock when i first worked with the german team from. there were some remarks that i would have considered extremely rude and disrespectful to their teammates, but there were present and didn't even flinch. it was all just matter-of-fact. i guess being forward you know where you stand. it's a polar opposite to japan where you have to intuit/guess what they are trying to politely tell you. (i remember one case where a senior partner asked a partner in japan (who was the expert) if it was so and so the japanese partner answered yes, because he didn't want to contradict the senior partner's 'assumption' even though it was just a question asked in the affirmative and risk causing him to lose face on the call).

i think there's a happy middle ground where you can make things clear but sugar coat it enough to avoid brusing egos/feelings.
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  #82  
Old 17.08.2021, 17:13
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Re: Zürich to Munich

If you calculate the rent of a flat in munich against your wage with the normal
standard (like the flat can't cost more then 25 or 30 Percent of your income), you realise , that you can't afford a flat in munich.
There are people , who commute one way more then 2 hours or students who own a bahncard 100 and travel back and forth to stay somewhere at night.
It is cheaper to own a bahncard 100 2400 (students) or 4027 euros then rent
any place in munich.
The tax system in germany is a plague of its own.
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  #83  
Old 17.08.2021, 18:14
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Re: Zürich to Munich

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If you calculate the rent of a flat in munich against your wage with the normal
standard (like the flat can't cost more then 25 or 30 Percent of your income), you realise , that you can't afford a flat in munich.
There are people , who commute one way more then 2 hours or students who own a bahncard 100 and travel back and forth to stay somewhere at night.
It is cheaper to own a bahncard 100 2400 (students) or 4027 euros then rent
any place in munich.
The tax system in germany is a plague of its own.
Based on your experience, a couple of 2 professionals working full time cannot afford to live in Münich? I saw ads with apartment ranging from 1800-2400 near the city Center - so with a bit of luck maybe I could settle for 2100.

To be honest I am more worried about my salary expectation that should be reduce by at least 40%. Problem is that here in CH my wife tried and did lot of interview but unfortunately didn't manage to get a job whereas in Münich was not such a problem - so decision is having 2 professional careers or staying here..
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  #84  
Old 17.08.2021, 18:23
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Re: Zürich to Munich

The wages in germany are not where there need to be to afford a city like munich, the expenses in germany are around 2-3 times that you pay here in switzerland.
Taxes and health /unemployment insurance are much higher the premiums you are paying here in switzerland, rents in munich in certain areas are higher then
these you are paying in zurich.
Food&beverage are cheaper (lot) depending on your circumtances of life.
If you got a second job, the tax hell will punish you , sometimes with around 60 % deductions from your wage, here in switzerland , when you are on permit c you pay very little deductions , the tax will deducted from your overall income, not like in germany , where your second income will be handled with a premium.

You can save around 3--4 times the money you save in germany overall.
When you retire in germany , you will get around 41-43 % of your net income, what is disgusting, you work 45 years and will be treated worse like somebody
who never worked his whole life, because the wages for a usual worker are around 2000 euros before tax /Insurances, net you will land around 1300 Euros.
From that "fortune" you have to pay your rent, food&beverage, private insurance and something for your retirement(Payment plan).
The minimum wage per hour is around 9.20 euros, here in switzerland you can get around 25 sfr(or more) per hour

Last edited by blackbird; 17.08.2021 at 18:41.
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  #85  
Old 17.08.2021, 18:54
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Re: Zürich to Munich

here is a calculator for germany:

https://www.gehalt.de

here that one for switzerland

https://www.lohncomputer.ch
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  #86  
Old 17.08.2021, 19:24
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Re: Zürich to Munich

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here is a calculator for germany:

https://www.gehalt.de

here that one for switzerland

https://www.lohncomputer.ch
Thanks a lot for sharing www.gehalt.de, how can I check salary accuracy? Do you know what on what the range is made of? Thanks in advance !
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  #87  
Old 17.08.2021, 19:50
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Re: Zürich to Munich

The accuracy of those tools depend on your allowances, for example the commute to work, work related expenses like a special room in your flat etc.
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  #88  
Old 17.08.2021, 20:05
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Re: Zürich to Munich

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The tax system in germany is a plague of its own.
It certainly is - but you lot keep electing politicians who only increase the size of the state.
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  #89  
Old 17.08.2021, 20:51
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Re: Zürich to Munich

Another thread being hijacked by populism. No one asked about political assessments or the refugee situation in Munich. But the same people who bring their populist bullshit into many other threads now also show up in the simple questions about cost of living and salary comparisons.

It is a drain and actually deprives the forum of many good factual discussions as I am sure many are just tired of the bullshit.
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Old 17.08.2021, 21:26
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Re: Zürich to Munich

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Another thread being hijacked by populism. No one asked about political assessments or the refugee situation in Munich. But the same people who bring their populist bullshit into many other threads now also show up in the simple questions about cost of living and salary comparisons.

It is a drain and actually deprives the forum of many good factual discussions as I am sure many are just tired of the bullshit.
Thanks a lot for this remark! I absolutely agree as well. Any feedback on closely related to my post are welcome
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Old 17.08.2021, 21:41
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Re: Zürich to Munich

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Thanks a lot for this remark! I absolutely agree as well. Any feedback on closely related to my post are welcome
Business analyst is a bit vague. Does the job ad refer to years of experience? Asked a friend who lived in Munich for a long time and he thinks 70k is realistic if this is a relatively junior position.

In relation to a salary of below 6k a month, a saving target of 2700 is aggressive, and I keep wondering how you do thisbin Zurich with 120k CHF gross for two people and the same life style you assume in your Munich cost breakdown.
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Old 17.08.2021, 21:48
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Re: Zürich to Munich

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Business analyst is a bit vague. Does the job ad refer to years of experience? Asked a friend who lived in Munich for a long time and he thinks 70k is realistic if this is a relatively junior position.

In total I have almost 6y of experience - I can work as Risk Analyst or BA for a risk department in a Bank or Insurance company.

In relation to a salary of below 6k a month, a saving target of 2700 is aggressive, and I keep wondering how you do thisbin Zurich with 120k CHF gross for two people and the same life style you assume in your Munich cost breakdown.
The reason is my wife. She moved in Zurich last year to stay with me -due also to the pandemic - in 20 months she ended after multiple rounded interviews with 0 job offers. She completed several German courses - now is C1 - took certifications but yet competition in her field seems to be higher then average so for our mental health we have decided to go trough a different path. She cannot stay at home doing anything....hope you understand our situation
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Old 17.08.2021, 21:53
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Re: Zürich to Munich

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The reason is my wife. She moved in Zurich last year to stay with me -due also to the pandemic - in 20 months she ended after multiple rounded interviews with 0 job offers. She completed several German courses - now is C1 - took certifications but yet competition in her field seems to be higher then average so for our mental health we have decided to go trough a different path. She cannot stay at home doing anything....hope you understand our situation
I totally understand. We had a similar situation in another country and pulled the plug.

Two people will do well in Munich on 120/130k. Your wife having a job and purpose will be worth more than 1000 Euro savings per month. And it is a booming city where plenty of opportunities will come along in the future.
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Old 17.08.2021, 22:01
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Re: Zürich to Munich

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Another thread being hijacked by populism. No one asked about political assessments or the refugee situation in Munich. But the same people who bring their populist bullshit into many other threads now also show up in the simple questions about cost of living and salary comparisons.

It is a drain and actually deprives the forum of many good factual discussions as I am sure many are just tired of the bullshit.
Hilarious - you're the same daft bint who asked me to help out - which I did -
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Then maybe you could help answer Op's questions instead of just bringing your "asylum seekers rape our girls" rhethoric.
As blackbird correctly points out - the productive people in Germany are being taxed to death - to pay for "refugees" (really migrants) , crime out the wazoo and an absurd state.

Munich used to be such a great city - shit like you defend destroyed it - if it's so great please go to Venezuela or another socialist paradise and be sure to write a card.
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Old 17.08.2021, 22:10
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Re: Zürich to Munich

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Hilarious - you're the same daft bint who asked me to help out - which I did -


As blackbird correctly points out - the productive people in Germany are being taxed to death - to pay for "refugees" (really migrants) , crime out the wazoo and an absurd state.

Munich used to be such a great city - shit like you defend destroyed it - if it's so great please go to Venezuela or another socialist paradise and be sure to write a card.
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Old 17.08.2021, 22:11
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Re: Zürich to Munich

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He is absolutely right tho
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Old 18.08.2021, 09:09
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Re: Zürich to Munich

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He is absolutely right tho
Sadly - and that's the odd thing - Germans (amongst other nationalities) stream into Switzerland to avoid the absurd taxes and massive states they voted in - and start voting in exactly the same patterns that guarentee that to happen here.

It would be better for all concerned if they were given a one way ticket to Venezuela , North Korea or Cuba to see the inevitable result of their political views.

Back to Munich - it has experienced waves of migration many times over - Haidhausen for example is the old French quarter - where working class French in the 50s and 60s whilst poor made the best of their opportunities - but the migrants were quintessentially European in character and fit in well - the new crowd are tearing the place apart.

It is often said that the definition of madness is to do the same thing over and over and expect different outcomes - the absolute determination of people NOT to learn from their mistakes but to insist that THIS TIME WILL BE DIFFERENT is destroying Europe and yet people who call themselves educated simply REFUSE to acknowledge what they have done/are doing.
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Old 18.08.2021, 13:41
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Re: Zürich to Munich

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Sadly - and that's the odd thing - Germans (amongst other nationalities) stream into Switzerland to avoid the absurd taxes and massive states they voted in - and start voting in exactly the same patterns that guarentee that to happen here.

It would be better for all concerned if they were given a one way ticket to Venezuela , North Korea or Cuba to see the inevitable result of their political views.

Back to Munich - it has experienced waves of migration many times over - Haidhausen for example is the old French quarter - where working class French in the 50s and 60s whilst poor made the best of their opportunities - but the migrants were quintessentially European in character and fit in well - the new crowd are tearing the place apart.

It is often said that the definition of madness is to do the same thing over and over and expect different outcomes - the absolute determination of people NOT to learn from their mistakes but to insist that THIS TIME WILL BE DIFFERENT is destroying Europe and yet people who call themselves educated simply REFUSE to acknowledge what they have done/are doing.
Dear Parnel, altough I might partially agree on some concerns, I just remind that I started my post with 4 questions:

1) What calculation should i run for having the same standard of living that we have in Zurich? What is the equivalent of 8k net in Zurich to Munich?

2) What are on average the monthly expenses and taxes for if we both work? Rent seems to be like in Zurich so not sure how to manage it with lower income..

3) Do you think I am asking too much for my role as a Risk Analyst with Master and bachelor and 6y of experinece?

4) If we became parents what are pros/cons comparing to switzerland?

Although I got partial answers - still some of my questions have not been answered at all. If possible, it will be great to concentrate any efforts on this any maybe create a different post for other discussion... just my 2 cents..
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Old 18.08.2021, 19:22
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Re: Zürich to Munich

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Based on your experience, a couple of 2 professionals working full time cannot afford to live in Münich?
Of course you can. People here tend to argue a little in extremes... Munich is very expensive for German standards. Besides the cost will the actual availability be the problem - as in to actually find a place. However, both from costs, income as well as tax system and everything else: far less extreme than living in Paris...

I think your idea to make the wife happy is great, so if the offer is right give it a try - in the worst case can you always come back to CH later on.
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Old 18.08.2021, 19:38
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Re: Zürich to Munich

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Dear Parnel, altough I might partially agree on some concerns, I just remind that I started my post with 4 questions:

1) What calculation should i run for having the same standard of living that we have in Zurich? What is the equivalent of 8k net in Zurich to Munich?
--> If you spend 8k a month on life in Zurich I would guesstimate that you would easily have as good a time if not better on 5k euro net in Munich

2) What are on average the monthly expenses and taxes for if we both work? Rent seems to be like in Zurich so not sure how to manage it with lower income..
--> Demand went through the roof because of where Munich was on the migrant route - so it's artificially high - but the city is much larger and you can still find decent places in the likes of Berg Am Laim for considerably less than Zurich costs - but again there is a more pervasive crime element.

3) Do you think I am asking too much for my role as a Risk Analyst with Master and bachelor and 6y of experinece?
Probably - as Zurich is where you earn the biggest numbers in banking and Munich is not a major banking city.

4) If we became parents what are pros/cons comparing to switzerland?
The rule is that over 2 kids Germany works out cheaper because of massively subsidised childcare , much more holidays (esp. Bavaria). It really comes down to how much you love cash versus how you consider other factors such as crime.

Although I got partial answers - still some of my questions have not been answered at all. If possible, it will be great to concentrate any efforts on this any maybe create a different post for other discussion... just my 2 cents..
Hope that helps but again that forum I recommended to you is more appropriate than this one.
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