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Old 08.02.2021, 12:17
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Re: Hunting Boar?

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Nothing unethical about pulling a baby permanently away from its mother, so you can murder it for milk and meat?

Exactly...
Those who think animals don't have feelings, watch this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mcSbTqEscvg


Below from the website: https://www.ciwf.org.uk/farm-animals/cows/veal-calves/ (just a quick google search, I wasn't looking specifically for the UK)

"Calves reared to UK standard are provided with bedding and younger calves receive double the amount of fibrous food compared to continental veal calves. Older UK calves have greater space allowance than stipulated in EU law. Their diet must provide a minimum amount of iron equal to the EU minimum.

Unfortunately, very few calves are reared for veal in Great Britain due to low demand for this meat. Although many are reared for beef, a large number are killed shortly after birth or may be exported to the continent.

Due to co-operation between Compassion in World Farming, the RSPCA and the industry through the Calf Stakeholder Forum, more male dairy calves are now reared humanely for beef and the number of calves being shot at birth has greatly decreased.

There is more work to do – tens of thousands are still shot every year (around 95,000 in 2015) and thousands are exported to the continent (over 19,000 in 2018), mostly from Northern Ireland.

Although the veal crate was banned across the EU in January 2007, Compassion has welfare concerns about standard EU veal production."

If we all had to do all this work ourselves - I am certain there'd be a LOT more people staying away from it

Last edited by summergirl; 08.02.2021 at 12:33.
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  #82  
Old 08.02.2021, 14:29
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Re: Hunting Boar?

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If we all had to do all this work ourselves - I am certain there'd be a LOT more people staying away from it
You'll find that that is the case for most products you buy.

When was the last time you raised an avocado yourself?
When was the last time you made a lightbulb?
When was the last time you extracted and refined the fuel for your heating or car?
When was the last time you build a generator for electricity?

It's a silly argument to say that because you don't raise/kill the meat, you shouldn't eat it. We live in a society where we move production to specialists. It's cheaper, more efficient, done better and raises GDP in general. Of course you can CHOOSE not to eat meat, but to say that people shouldn't eat meat because they didn't process it doesn't make sense to me.

I'm not sure many people have seen how cattle is raised in countries where this specialization doesn't exist. I spent more than a decade in West Africa, where most families have their own goat or chicken. I can assure you these are treated very differently to our standards - even compared to some of the more cruel mass-produced meat we have.

It's "normal" in some countries to tie the legs of a goat, and then tie the goats (alive) to the roof of a car for a 6+ hour journey on a beaten-laterite track. It's normal to have the goat tied by a leg to a 1-2m rope for months until the goat is ready for slaughter. When it comes to slaughter, the "normal" approach is to tie the goat down, and then slit the throat to let it bleed out. I don't know about you, but I MUCH rather prefer the approach of stunning it and then bolting it (which I understand what is used in CH, with the exception of halal meat).

Don't assume that because it's done "by the consumer" the animal lives a better life.

Animal welfare standards are actually quite high in Europe, and VERY high in Switzerland.

Don't get me wrong - I try to avoid mass produced meat, if I cannot check that it comes from a reputable farm. That said, I won't avoid the occasional McDo. I'm lucky enough to have a choice as to where my food comes from, so I can choose.

Animals do have feelings, but so do plants. Multiple studies show that plants can perceive and communicate physical stimuli and damage. Is it pain? Probably not, but they do perceive the damage caused to them.

Is it ethical to pull a baby permanently away from its mother, so you can murder it for milk and meat? Depends on where your compass lies, but in my ethical spectrum - yes.

How is it any different from having a pet cat or dog - you take them away from their mother as well... only difference is you force them into slavery to obey your commands for life (dogs at least... cats become your master). As long as you then raise and treat the animal humanely, and ensure that it's death is as humane as possible; my ethical compass is clearly in the green
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Old 08.02.2021, 17:13
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Re: Hunting Boar?

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Of course you can CHOOSE not to eat meat, but to say that people shouldn't eat meat because they didn't process it doesn't make sense to me.

It's "normal" in some countries to tie the legs of a goat, and then tie the goats (alive) to the roof of a car for a 6+ hour journey on a beaten-laterite track. It's normal to have the goat tied by a leg to a 1-2m rope for months until the goat is ready for slaughter. When it comes to slaughter, the "normal" approach is to tie the goat down, and then slit the throat to let it bleed out. I don't know about you, but I MUCH rather prefer the approach of stunning it and then bolting it (which I understand what is used in CH, with the exception of halal meat).
Uhh, where in my post have I EVER said people cannot eat meat unless they process it?? Pls go back and read everything I have written. I wrote it is MY choice not to eat meat if I cannot kill it myself, I never said others should follow. Also, by saying a lot less people would eat meat if they had to kill it themselves is just true, just because it is not a nice job to do - but never did I say people who can't process it should not eat it. Those who have no issues with it - can go on with their own eating habits.

And I totally agree with preferring stunning/bolting it as well, the least painful and quick way. I am not against meat, I already wrote that in previous posts. So tbh, I don't understand the tone of your post to me.

I don't think it is a bad thing to bring awareness: people can do with that knowledge as they please. I am not a vegan preaching others to not eat meat or not hunt.
I was not aware until 5 years ago of all the practices and I am glad to got to know. If it helps just one person to also consider the welfare or methods, that's a win.
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