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  #21  
Old 26.04.2021, 09:09
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Re: Best audiophile store in Switzerland?

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What i am gonna say is bad for business, but here I go - most of the stuff in the whole audiophilia realm is snake oil. 90% of your sound is the room, the rest doesn‘t really matter that much. You can get good sounding speakers for next to nothing on ricardo, and todays electronics does not need to be expensive to sound good. Most of the differences that audiophiles attribute to sound are actually psychoacoustics that has nothing to do with the sound, but is all about shiny objects (expensive=good, riiight?).
OP wants to try it out, which obviously doesn't work on Ricardo.

And they want a turntable - of all the things in an audio setup, that is the one which actually can sound significantly different (avoiding saying "better" since as you say it's subjective).

When I was (a lot) younger I replaced my cheap Philips turntable with a "much better" Panasonic one and didn't like it, I was used to the sound of the Philips. Don't have any vinyl now, and when I hear it with the scratches and hiss I hate it; even worse when they put that onto tracks deliberately
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  #22  
Old 26.04.2021, 10:52
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Re: Best audiophile store in Switzerland?

I can recommend musik&form in Zurich - friendly guys, good at demoing and working with the budget you want. I suggest you call them, tell them what you are after, book an appointment, and go see what they have to say.

I know they do Rega turntables there for demo, which I think are good first steps and fit most budgets.
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  #23  
Old 26.04.2021, 13:18
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Re: Best audiophile store in Switzerland?

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doing blind tests with my kids and wife
What a great way to spend your free time! (chuckle). Is the equipment level matched, and to what precision? Is it a properly constructed DBT? If NO to any of those, the test is worthless.
To me, the whole audiophilia stuff resembles mental disease. It's like, you are supposed to enjoy music, but instead you get into this circle of comparisons and spending, spending and spending, which never leaves you satisfied. And then comes the moment of truth.. when the first batch of your 'audiophile' (or not so audiophile) gear accidentally sounds better than the final bit in your incremental upgrade quest.. that lasted for a decade.. or when you realise that tiled bathroom is not the best place for critical listening.. This experience can fry audiophile's brain, because it's a total non sequitur.. error.. BSD.. Same happens with properly done blind tests. There has been not a single documented case of people distinguishing between DACs, even, afaik, SS amps. There are real money prizes out there for distinguishing gear in a blind test, but so far there has been suspiciously little interest from 'audiophiles'. This is all understandable. Imagine the psychological trauma, if a dude with his $5000 Mcintosh can't distinguish it from a $50 T-Amp the moment he closes his eyes.. all those beliefs, years of climbing the audiophile ladder, endless discussions in forums, listening to capacitors, finding soundstages in cables.. all of that.. mercilessly smashed.. Some never listen to music again, others withdraw into solitude, but instead of letting grief take its course, they stay in the stage of denial.. forever.. TLDR, you've been warned lol
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  #24  
Old 26.04.2021, 15:05
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Re: Best audiophile store in Switzerland?

Hello Brontozaur

Feel free to bring your $50 hifi over to my place to test against my setup and the only outcome will be that if you cannot hear a difference I'll book you an appointment to get the wax out of your ears.

However, you do have a point that many people who get heavily into audio equipment can spend too much time focussing on the quality of the sound rather than simple listening pleasure. And yes, sometimes the mind does play tricks, and people who consider themselves audiophiles can certainly go over the top. I've definitely been through this.

Another point is that a good setup (which you may not think exists) highlights the difference between good and bad recordings - and there are many more bad recordings than good ones. So you can end up listening more to recordings that are good quality at the expense of wider listening.

What you fail to mention though is that for some people, that is a fun process.

By the way I don't think this applies at all to the original poster, who simply seems to be looking for an inroads to play her vinyl collection.
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  #25  
Old 26.04.2021, 15:05
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Re: Best audiophile store in Switzerland?

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What a great way to spend your free time! (chuckle). Is the equipment level matched, and to what precision? Is it a properly constructed DBT? If NO to any of those, the test is worthless.
To me, the whole audiophilia stuff resembles mental disease. It's like, you are supposed to enjoy music, but instead you get into this circle of comparisons and spending, spending and spending, which never leaves you satisfied. And then comes the moment of truth.. when the first batch of your 'audiophile' (or not so audiophile) gear accidentally sounds better than the final bit in your incremental upgrade quest.. that lasted for a decade.. or when you realise that tiled bathroom is not the best place for critical listening.. This experience can fry audiophile's brain, because it's a total non sequitur.. error.. BSD.. Same happens with properly done blind tests. There has been not a single documented case of people distinguishing between DACs, even, afaik, SS amps. There are real money prizes out there for distinguishing gear in a blind test, but so far there has been suspiciously little interest from 'audiophiles'. This is all understandable. Imagine the psychological trauma, if a dude with his $5000 Mcintosh can't distinguish it from a $50 T-Amp the moment he closes his eyes.. all those beliefs, years of climbing the audiophile ladder, endless discussions in forums, listening to capacitors, finding soundstages in cables.. all of that.. mercilessly smashed.. Some never listen to music again, others withdraw into solitude, but instead of letting grief take its course, they stay in the stage of denial.. forever.. TLDR, you've been warned lol
WTF did I just try to read?
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  #26  
Old 26.04.2021, 15:42
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Re: Best audiophile store in Switzerland?

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By the way I don't think this applies at all to the original poster, who simply seems to be looking for an inroads to play her vinyl collection.
True ... perhaps when I get my farmhouse in the middle of nowhere I might think about becoming mental over the whole thing, but I want to just have a nice set up for my city dwelling apartment life.

Last time I was back home in the US, I went to this vinyl bar where you could buy records and drink good beer. He would play whatever you bought while you drank and played pool, and man that was cool ... the sound was also phenomenal. I perhaps should reach out to him to see what he has ...

http://www.hornskis.com/
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  #27  
Old 26.04.2021, 16:06
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Re: Best audiophile store in Switzerland?

I remembered one thing from long time ago...

I once worked in a college radio station. Sometimes in the cabin telling stupid sh*t on air, sometimes in the console room to just hang around while listening to the music properly (quite loud). What I remember is that the console room only had 2 monitor speakers and the sound was clearer and more intense than the average nightclub. I've only been to concerts where the sound is even better.

The point is two relatively small speakers (something like this https://www.musix.com/ch/en/Yamaha-HS7-160534.html) and I guess most of the budget went into the room floor, walls and ceiling. Some kind of textile material to avoid sound reflection. Don't know much beyond that, but there should be some theory is preparing a room for music listening. Maybe spare a few bucks for that.
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  #28  
Old 26.04.2021, 16:23
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Re: Best audiophile store in Switzerland?

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I remembered one thing from long time ago...

I once worked in a college radio station. Sometimes in the cabin telling stupid sh*t on air, sometimes in the console room to just hang around while listening to the music properly (quite loud). What I remember is that the console room only had 2 monitor speakers and the sound was clearer and more intense than the average nightclub. I've only been to concerts where the sound is even better.

The point is two relatively small speakers (something like this https://www.musix.com/ch/en/Yamaha-HS7-160534.html) and I guess most of the budget went into the room floor, walls and ceiling. Some kind of textile material to avoid sound reflection. Don't know much beyond that, but there should be some theory is preparing a room for music listening. Maybe spare a few bucks for that.
Yes, for example, having a thick-ish rug on the floor can in many cases work wonders.
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Old 26.04.2021, 16:29
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Re: Best audiophile store in Switzerland?

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WTF did I just try to read?
You read it all? Well done! I went and enjoyed a good tune as I figured its time better spent
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Old 26.04.2021, 16:32
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Re: Best audiophile store in Switzerland?

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Yes, for example, having a thick-ish rug on the floor can in many cases work wonders.
Thanks to everyone's advice, I'm starting to think I need to change rooms for my setup. I wanted to put it in the dining room as that is where we enjoy music the most while cooking / eating / drinking, but perhaps I will move it to the library where I have a thick Persian rug & the room is perfectly shaped for it. My neighbours on that side of the flat are also gone 60 percent of the time ...
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Old 26.04.2021, 18:24
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Re: Best audiophile store in Switzerland?

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Hello Brontozaur

Feel free to bring your $50 hifi over to my place to test against my setup and the only outcome will be that if you cannot hear a difference I'll book you an appointment to get the wax out of your ears.
Now now, careful here If you haven't done properly constructed DBTs before (level matched, statistically meaningful), you might be heading towards disappointment. Hordes and hordes of audiophile warriors have failed before you.. Imagine trying to guess which solid state amp is which.. even if you had it for 10 years.. ouch..
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Old 26.04.2021, 18:46
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Re: Best audiophile store in Switzerland?

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Hordes and hordes of audiophile warriors have failed before you..
You're funny, I like you! You have a great future here
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  #33  
Old 27.04.2021, 08:31
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Re: Best audiophile store in Switzerland?

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perhaps I will move it to the library where I have a thick Persian rug & the room is perfectly shaped for it.
Perfectly shaped? Actually, asymmetry in rooms rather than a cube or rectangle are better for acoustics most of the time. Rug sounds good though
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