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Old 29.06.2021, 15:59
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Swiss or Switzerland?

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Open Wikipedia mate, Swiss is perfectly legitimate name, had been used for 3 centuries.
Looks like Otec has been hoisted by his own petard. It's acceptable to call Switzerland Swiss when referring to the country, but only if it's followed by the word confederation. So if he wants to be correct, he'd have to change his location from Swiss to The Swiss Confederation but that just makes him a tüpflischiisser in the eyes of fluent Swiss-German speakers; or he could just change it to Switzerland. (A tüpflischiisser is a pedant, but less flattering.)

Incidentally, the Swiss Confederation in Latin is Confoederatio Helvetica, hence CH as a country abbreviation.

Otec is by no means on his own. Lots of people struggle to get it right, which gets up peoples noses who don't.

If you're trying to solve a problem regarding how things are done in Switzerland, your headline might say Registering a non-road legal vehicle in Switzerland, or Registering a non-road legal vehicle in the Swiss Confederation, but not Registering non-road legal vehicle in Swiss.

Switzerland refers to the country, as in:
I am moving to Switzerland, I live in Switzerland, I hate Switzerland. I'm only in Switzerland for the money.

Swiss refers to things or persons that are Swiss.
I am Swiss. Swiss cheese, Swiss chocolate, Swiss army knives, Swiss neutrality. I have – or don't have – a Swiss passport.

It's not that difficult. Any native or fluent English speaker would know the difference. Non-English speakers at beginner level are excused.

If you found yourself with the same issues in Denmark, say, it wouldn't be quite so easy:

Denmark refers to the country
Danish is the main language spoken in Denmark
Danish passport holders are citizens of Denmark. They are called Danes
Exports from Denmark are called Danish bacon or Danish pastries

Danish bacon is generally frowned upon except by the Brits in southern Spain who would throw a wobbly fit if Danish bacon wasn't served as part of their full English breakfast (known as the full English, for short).

Danish pastries, on the other hand, are in a league of their own. In Denmark, Danish pastries are called Vienna bread. Danish pastries may contain cinnamon or crème anglaise. Crème anglaise should not be translated as English cream. That's just weird. The English think crème anglaise is the same as custard, but they're just ignorant. The term crème anglaise was invented by the French as a joke. The English have their own version of a Danish pastry filled with crème anglaise. They call them custard buns. Custard buns are either round or vaguely torpedo-shaped, filled with slow-moving yellow gunk. This particular hue of yellow is not found in nature. The torpedo-shaped variety are laid-out on a slab at Greggs. They are pale and sickly looking as if they'd recently been embalmed and then dug up. Usually, a bit of the yellow gunk sticks out at one end where it hardens and some of the yellow goes a bit darker. Custard buns make excellent draught excluders.

You'd think that the Brits, who at one time ruled the waves, vast tracts of land on virtually every continent and owned millions of people could do better, wouldn't you? The Danes, on the other hand, weren't so big on colonialism apart from a quick trip to Britain, where the pastries were rubbish so they went back home, and Greenland, of course. But Greenland was an easy touch. Nobody was interested in it or even knew where it was, except for Donald Trump who'd heard of it, but even he got cold feet.

Just goes to show that not being preoccupied with empire building can lead to great results in the pastry world.

Boris Johnson, who bears a striking resemblance to a cream bun, has commissioned a new pastry recipe. It's slow going because the influencer, his girlfriend, and the chief stirrer, Dominic Cummings, don't see eye to eye.

Foreigners who want to settle in the Netherlands are also faced with similar problems.
The Netherlands (or Holland) refers the country. The The is very important here. Don't just call it Netherlands. Say “let's go to the Netherlands,” not “let's go Netherlands”, unless you're from south London and under 30. Most people would just say “Let's go to Holland”. “I'm going to the Netherlands” is a phrase often used by genocidal dictators who are not going there for the weed. Don't ever say “let's go Dutch”, unless you know what you're doing, and be especially careful if it's your turn to get the next round.

Citizens of the Netherlands are called Dutch or the Dutch.
Dutch courage is the Netherlands' most famous export.

If you inadvertently say “let's go Dutch,” when it's your turn to get the next round, you'll need a fair bit of that famous Dutch export.
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Old 29.06.2021, 16:07
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Re: Swiss or Switzerland?

Haven't really read all your post but am eager to just burn obtuse people - forrin or home grown - please save me from joining the SVP
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Old 29.06.2021, 16:08
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Re: Swiss or Switzerland?

Pedant mode: https://www.holland.com/global/touri...vs-holland.htm

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Old 29.06.2021, 16:12
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Re: Swiss or Switzerland?

I spent some time in Limburg, definitely not calling that part of the Netherlands Holland.
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Old 29.06.2021, 16:18
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Re: Swiss or Switzerland?

People argue here that word usage changes all the time.

If enough people use the word Swiss as slang to describe Switzerland then that may become accepted practice.

There is a certain logic to it as it is an anglicised version of "Suisse".

But if people accept that no change is allowed, can they please refer to Australia not as Australia, certainly not as Oz but as New Holland.
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Old 29.06.2021, 16:18
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Re: Swiss or Switzerland?

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Haven't really read all your post but am eager to just burn obtuse people - forrin or home grown - please save me from joining the SVP
If you're into burning the obtuse you should be safe from the SVP, unless you're into self-immolations as, according to the Cambridge Dictionary, obtuse means stupid and slow to understand, or unwilling to try to understand
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Old 29.06.2021, 16:20
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Re: Swiss or Switzerland?

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i spent some time in limburg, definitely not calling that part of the netherlands holland.
:d
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Old 29.06.2021, 16:25
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Re: Swiss or Switzerland?

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Looks like Otec has been hoisted by his own petard. It's acceptable to call Switzerland Swiss when referring to the country, but only if it's followed by the word confederation. So if he wants to be correct, he'd have to change his location from Swiss to The Swiss Confederation but that just makes him a tüpflischiisser in the eyes of fluent Swiss-German speakers; or he could just change it to Switzerland. (A tüpflischiisser is a pedant, but less flattering.)

Incidentally, the Swiss Confederation in Latin is Confoederatio Helvetica, hence CH as a country abbreviation.

Otec is by no means on his own. Lots of people struggle to get it right, which gets up peoples noses who don't.

If you're trying to solve a problem regarding how things are done in Switzerland, your headline might say Registering a non-road legal vehicle in Switzerland, or Registering a non-road legal vehicle in the Swiss Confederation, but not Registering non-road legal vehicle in Swiss.

Switzerland refers to the country, as in:
I am moving to Switzerland, I live in Switzerland, I hate Switzerland. I'm only in Switzerland for the money.

Swiss refers to things or persons that are Swiss.
I am Swiss. Swiss cheese, Swiss chocolate, Swiss army knives, Swiss neutrality. I have – or don't have – a Swiss passport.

It's not that difficult. Any native or fluent English speaker would know the difference. Non-English speakers at beginner level are excused.

If you found yourself with the same issues in Denmark, say, it wouldn't be quite so easy:

Denmark refers to the country
Danish is the main language spoken in Denmark
Danish passport holders are citizens of Denmark. They are called Danes
Exports from Denmark are called Danish bacon or Danish pastries

Danish bacon is generally frowned upon except by the Brits in southern Spain who would throw a wobbly fit if Danish bacon wasn't served as part of their full English breakfast (known as the full English, for short).

Danish pastries, on the other hand, are in a league of their own. In Denmark, Danish pastries are called Vienna bread. Danish pastries may contain cinnamon or crème anglaise. Crème anglaise should not be translated as English cream. That's just weird. The English think crème anglaise is the same as custard, but they're just ignorant. The term crème anglaise was invented by the French as a joke. The English have their own version of a Danish pastry filled with crème anglaise. They call them custard buns. Custard buns are either round or vaguely torpedo-shaped, filled with slow-moving yellow gunk. This particular hue of yellow is not found in nature. The torpedo-shaped variety are laid-out on a slab at Greggs. They are pale and sickly looking as if they'd recently been embalmed and then dug up. Usually, a bit of the yellow gunk sticks out at one end where it hardens and some of the yellow goes a bit darker. Custard buns make excellent draught excluders.

You'd think that the Brits, who at one time ruled the waves, vast tracts of land on virtually every continent and owned millions of people could do better, wouldn't you? The Danes, on the other hand, weren't so big on colonialism apart from a quick trip to Britain, where the pastries were rubbish so they went back home, and Greenland, of course. But Greenland was an easy touch. Nobody was interested in it or even knew where it was, except for Donald Trump who'd heard of it, but even he got cold feet.

Just goes to show that not being preoccupied with empire building can lead to great results in the pastry world.

Boris Johnson, who bears a striking resemblance to a cream bun, has commissioned a new pastry recipe. It's slow going because the influencer, his girlfriend, and the chief stirrer, Dominic Cummings, don't see eye to eye.

Foreigners who want to settle in the Netherlands are also faced with similar problems.
The Netherlands (or Holland) refers the country. The The is very important here. Don't just call it Netherlands. Say “let's go to the Netherlands,” not “let's go Netherlands”, unless you're from south London and under 30. Most people would just say “Let's go to Holland”. “I'm going to the Netherlands” is a phrase often used by genocidal dictators who are not going there for the weed. Don't ever say “let's go Dutch”, unless you know what you're doing, and be especially careful if it's your turn to get the next round.

Citizens of the Netherlands are called Dutch or the Dutch.
Dutch courage is the Netherlands' most famous export.

If you inadvertently say “let's go Dutch,” when it's your turn to get the next round, you'll need a fair bit of that famous Dutch export.
Briefly, Swiss is an adjective, Switzerland is a noun. No?

I like your long post.
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Old 29.06.2021, 16:28
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Re: Swiss or Switzerland?

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Briefly, Swiss is an adjective, Switzerland is a noun. No?
I think so, but I'm no linguist.

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I like your long post.
Thank you.

I was going to make it shorter, but I didn't have the time.
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Old 29.06.2021, 16:30
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Re: Swiss or Switzerland?

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I think so, but I'm no linguist.



Thank you.

I was going to make it shorter, but I didn't have the time.
You should find no time more often!
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Old 29.06.2021, 16:32
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Re: Swiss or Switzerland?

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Briefly, Swiss is an adjective, Switzerland is a noun. No?
Yes. Suisse is also an adjective and not a noun.
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Old 29.06.2021, 16:33
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Re: Swiss or Switzerland?

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If you're into burning the obtuse you should be safe from the SVP, unless you're into self-immolations as, according to the Cambridge Dictionary, obtuse means stupid and slow to understand, or unwilling to try to understand
look, I get your point regarding self-immolation

but it's just the way I was brought up

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Old 29.06.2021, 16:33
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Re: Swiss or Switzerland?

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You should find no time more often!


Well, I'm supposed to start a new project but prevarication is way stronger than I am. I'll happily oblige as soon as somebody throws me bone.
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Old 29.06.2021, 16:35
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Re: Swiss or Switzerland?

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I was going to make it shorter, but I didn't have the time.
Lazy 8um
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Old 29.06.2021, 16:35
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Re: Swiss or Switzerland?

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Yes. Also in French...
Haha. It does not confuse me in French. But the fact that it is spelled without capital letter still does and that the adjectives are after the nouns is quite inconvenient.
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Old 29.06.2021, 16:38
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Re: Swiss or Switzerland?

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Well, I'm supposed to start a new project but prevarication is way stronger than I am. I'll happily oblige as soon as somebody throws me bone.
What is the word for somebody who fibs?
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Old 29.06.2021, 16:39
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Re: Swiss or Switzerland?

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look, I get your point regarding self-immolation

but it's just the way I was brought up

What a great film that was, thank you! It couldn't be made now though, could it? We live in darker times.

It should be required watching in all religious studies.
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Old 29.06.2021, 16:40
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Re: Swiss or Switzerland?

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Yes. Suisse is also an adjective and not a noun.
What about La Suisse?
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Old 29.06.2021, 16:42
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Re: Swiss or Switzerland?

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What about La Suisse?
That's what he meant.
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Old 29.06.2021, 16:43
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Re: Swiss or Switzerland?

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What is the word for somebody who fibs?
A fibber or a liar. I told no lies, honest!
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