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  #701  
Old 28.07.2021, 02:04
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Re: Deleting My Account

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Urs Max, I really think you have misunderstood my post, and my intention behind it. I'm sorry.

Yes, it's true that I know nothing of the hardships you've been through. My point was that anyone (including you, and including me) should be granted (by the society around them) the space to be who they are and to tell their story and to claim their truth. And that space shouldn't be dependent upon their gender.

Boys and men ought not to have greater or lesser access than girls and women to education, a chance to earn a living, and to medical treatment and psychological care, and to ordinary, everyday respect on the street. Such matters should not be apportioned to people simply on the basis of their being male or female.

You, whether male or female, ought to be granted, by the formal structures of the country, but also by society (in the cultural sense, and in everyday interactions), the same rights and duties as should I, whether I am male or female.

It saddens me when anyone (whether they are male or female or anything else) finds themselves categorised (to their disadvantage) because of a generalisation that "they" (the other group) have made about them.
This post, and the others in the same cluster by Doropfiz, illustrates why she is my favourite poster.
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  #702  
Old 28.07.2021, 11:13
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Re: Deleting My Account

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He included me in his definition for, what I can only assume, being I’m an outspoken female.
So by your logic MusicChick and you are the same then ?? Try again.
  #703  
Old 28.07.2021, 11:18
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So by your logic MusicChick and you are the same then ?? Try again.
Wtf? That’s a sick twisting of words. UM specifically referred to me. There was no mention of any other specific female.
  #704  
Old 28.07.2021, 13:54
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Re: Deleting My Account

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Racism still exists in every country today. The woke movement may feel uncomfortable to you but they are tackling issues that need to be revisited and attitudes improved. Everywhere.
Locals know of places where ex -Yugoslavians or people of colour are still not welcomed simply because of racism fueled by a group dynamic. I’m speaking of places where the farming/native Swiss kids meet to revel in their “eidgenössischen” heritage.


This is what I consider inaccurate. But because it's based on those "nice sweet words like , we should all be nice to each other" awarness against prejudism, all that makes the "wokeism", it sounds really reasonable to most people. When in fact it isn't. I can try to explain why

It is not racism if some people are not allowing in their circle people from another country, culture,etc. In this example it's yugoslavens but equally they probably would not allow some french from gex or swiss from vaud or norvegians... As well as, it's not racism if in norway some people in their circle wont let in some bulgarians or swiss...As well as , it's not racism if I'm somewhere around Togo or Kenya and I run naked and my puddingy white legs makes them laugh and it reminds them of their local white turkey and they just want to roast me for dinner.

Just by observing nature and seeing how gorillas,chimpanzes treat for ex. an albino offspring .. most of the time so cruel, they often die early. So it is very complicated.

Racism is when it is institutionalised meaning there is established practice, activity some norm or convention of how the society is organised.

What do we know about racism? Well, it started by dominance, of certain people against certain people. This dominance was efficient because it is/was a question of power. In this case we have white people against black,asians etc.. This lead to the possibility to own slaves and set rules where you are having certain power (to sell human beings, to get rid of them ,to torture..) and the others were just slaves, no rights no freedom to be able to choose what you will do with yourself, because someone, owns you.

We have the impression how that dominance has to do with people having hatred towards those who are of different colour,ethnicity etc. but, no. There is nothing innate about it.

By the way, it was those same white people who abolished the slavery. (they didnt really have to if you think about it..)

Since , dominance, whether it is aimed at people who are of different ethnicity, or just status (being poor) , it is only a question of power.

This is so well illustrated in that film from lars Von Trier "Dogville".
There's a lovely little town, the residents of Dogville were good honest folks, and they liked their township and were happy to help a lady that needed to find shelter. She has to help out and she's happy to give something in return when bit by bit, everyone wants more help and finds how she has to give more in return. When each one sees how they can abuse and have even more and more privileges they start being monstruous towards her and it just continues.

If the girl in the film was of some different origin we could've all cried and said "aaaah racists!" or if she was disabled.. So only that is the difference (most of the times) if there is no some distinctive sign, like here we have nicole Kidmann , you just see the human nature and there it is, no excuse for it (like, oh but maybe they were brought up to hate people of another race or some other visible sign) .. No, actually you give people the right to be monsters they will be.

And this actually does disturbs the intello-burgoisie who likes to show around and brags how "oh Racism , WE HAVE TO Fight against that" and that's very noble but for us ... people who have seen a lot of cynism it is just a laughable movement (woke culture and all that)

Which is why the elite likes that so much. They shake our cage and like "come on fight, brag how anti-racist you are" but the real story is happening (real racism,dominance) where people are paid minimum wage and big real estate $$ speculation, makes for people impossible to live in decent conditions or own a property ... and the "I have two jobs and cant pay bills" is at a higher rate than ever . BUT, for this you dont see people going around the streets, but BLM fancy-schmancy catwalk is to be praised.
To the brutal and humiliating extent that during covid lockdowns, people who'd protest against lockdowns were beaten up by the police and chased and the same day BLM protests - not a single slap from the police they were nowhere to be seen. And maybe I'm even racist now for just stating this fact
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  #705  
Old 28.07.2021, 14:05
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Re: Deleting My Account

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In general more often than not even the posts trying to be helpful will have no or little relevance to the original post. Then there'll be the judging and personal opinions on whether the thread is worthy or not and they'll go on for pages. Like "Hi guys! How can I watch the Olympics?" met instantly with a groan and a comment "Why would you want to do that?". or "Where can I get legal advice?" - "you don't need legal advice you need to tell us what the problem is so we can judge you". I feel that the mods should be more aggressive. Caution the serial groaners and delete posts which bring no value to the thread. Would be a lot more work for them though. I started reporting some posts but it seems futile.

This is really well-explained. There's nothing like worked examples, to help everyone to equally make sense of what's conveyed, I think. Thank you.



I think it'd be interesting to have a survey on how posters feel the moderating is working out, as I think there are so many different ideas of what's appropriate, ideal, helpful, unhelpful, productive, non-productive, and so on, and we'd learn a lot about the conduct of mod's and posters alike.



We likely miss a lot of opportunities to show thanks to mod's through lack of awareness, and likely sometimes carry frustration from times we felt the mod's didn't do enough or contributed something needlessly inflammatory. There may be modern tools, like robomod's, that posters have experience with elsewhere and could give decent feedback on, that could provide some food for thought for ways to make moderating less burdensome on humans, especially on forums like this, where the mod's want to also contribute as posters.



Some posters willingly accepting the defence of "we're volunteers", when moderating bumps are being mentioned on the board by posters. Others feel there should be a clear distinction in the conduct of a mod v's a poster, clear duties, a consistent approach, a way of knowing what can be expected from a mod, etc etc. Some want less moderation. Some want blurred lines and less intervention. Some want certain types of destructive conduct to be tackled strongly. No doubt, there are many other perspectives, too.


We saw from posts earlier this week, I would say, that reporting posts was smeared as a practice, with disdain and spite being shown for those reporting regular problems on the forum, as I understood the responses from the mod team. It's hard for me to interpret this as anything but a will to silence dissent, if reporting posts for legitimate reasons is viewed so negatively. Perhaps those posts were expressed during a rush of blood to the head, and not reflective of calm-headed thinking. Perhaps others interpreted those posts differently.



The common issues I see that I would call legitimate reasons for reporting are bullying, degrading posts, aggressive posts, and targetting and attacking women on the board with venom because we're women with differing thoughts and opinions.


No doubt, some will agree, and some not, with any perspective. I think that's why it might help to level-set a bit, so we're a bit clearer up-front on what to expect, and not (prior to bumps arising), both from mod's, and from other posters.

Last edited by CliiniMuus; 28.07.2021 at 14:30.
  #706  
Old 28.07.2021, 14:15
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Re: Deleting My Account

Lander's third sentence from the back ...

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  #707  
Old 28.07.2021, 14:25
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Re: Deleting My Account

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Wtf? That’s a sick twisting of words. UM specifically referred to me. There was no mention of any other specific female.
So criticising you is misogynistic, but criticising another woman wouldn't be. Wow. Just wow.

And no, it's not about anyone being outspoken, it's about your double standards and misandry.
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  #708  
Old 28.07.2021, 14:39
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Re: Deleting My Account

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......
The common issues I see that I would call legitimate reasons for reporting are bullying, degrading posts, aggressive posts, and targetting and attacking women on the board with venom because we're women with differing thoughts and opinions.
I don't disagree with your general point about bad behaviour, but as we've been discussing, it's a little exasperating to highlight women in particular here. Let's call out venomous attacks on PEOPLE. There are no doubt one or two chuckling trolls who want to focus on women but there are others who like to attack certain nationalities, personality types, or those who have other features that we can't do much about.

The frustration that a lot of us feel with identity politics is that it degenerates into a sort of verbal bun fight: "But my identity type is more worthy and more vulnerable than yours." This obsessive polarisation is full of internal contradictions and confusion: is a white woman more worthy than a black man? Is a poor white man more worthy than a wealthy black woman? And so on. Men / women, black / white, rich / poor, gay / straight... : all of these groups overlap, and all of them contain mostly nice people but some nasty ones. Why not respond to individual people and their individual behaviour rather than allocate them to groups first?

I'm sounding like the old hippy that deep down I still am, but can we not work on adjusting our thinking so that all people are intrinsically worthy of respect -- unless and until they behave persistently badly? It's so dispiriting to try to do the right thing, but to be dismissed and vilified simply because one belongs to some huge category e.g. men or white people or western or British, deemed (rightly or wrongly) to contain a disproportionate number of the badly behaved. Even worse, those who belong to a category whose ancestors were badly behaved. I'm fed up with being blamed for things I'm really not responsible for.
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  #709  
Old 28.07.2021, 15:15
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So criticising you is misogynistic, but criticising another woman wouldn't be. Wow. Just wow.

And no, it's not about anyone being outspoken, it's about your double standards and misandry.
I don’t know what makes me more ill: the twisting of words to create accusations or the fact that two mods confine and actually thank posters for doing it. If this kind of behavior is what FMF and MC envision as freedom, I’m leaving this forum too. This is not what EF is about.
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  #710  
Old 28.07.2021, 15:21
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Re: Deleting My Account

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If this kind of behavior is what FMF and MC envision as freedom,
I do it to add balance, can't speak for MC
It turns out I am the only Conservative mod, so a minority who needs protection
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Old 28.07.2021, 15:29
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Re: Deleting My Account

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I do it to add balance, can't speak for MC
It turns out I am the only Conservative mod, so a minority who needs protection
Twisting words to create accusations has nothing to do with politics, it’s about respect and integrity, or in this case, the lack of.
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Old 28.07.2021, 15:32
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Re: Deleting My Account

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Twisting words to create accusations has nothing to do with politics, it’s about respect and integrity, or in this case, the lack of.
Twisting words has been a hobby of many on the forum for years, I am all for more integrity.
  #713  
Old 28.07.2021, 15:40
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Re: Deleting My Account

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I do it to add balance, can't speak for MC
Jaja.

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It turns out I am the only Conservative mod, so a minority who needs protection
Nah, there is more of us. Depends on the issues, too.

What I do not understand is - somebody gets upset about not being agreed with and accuses others of "word twisting". Are those who think for themselves guilty of "word twisting" anytime they bring a different perspective? What happened to simply civilly letting others have different points of view?
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  #714  
Old 28.07.2021, 15:49
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....What happened to simply civilly letting others have different points of view?
Trying to be understanding, I suspect that it's often HOW the view is expressed rather than the view itself. As some great musical philosopher wrote in the last century: "T'aint wotcher do it's the way thatcha do it."
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  #715  
Old 28.07.2021, 15:49
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Re: Deleting My Account

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Jaja.



Nah, there is more of us. Depends on the issues, too.

What I do not understand is - somebody gets upset about not being agreed with and accuses others of "word twisting". Are those who think for themselves guilty of "word twisting" anytime they bring a different perspective? What happened to simply civilly letting others have different points of view?
And indeed, if that‘s what happened here it would be all fine and good. But more often than not people are berated, groaned, responded to flippantly with snide comments or with rambling discourse that is unintelligible. I believe you are over simplifying and brushing off disagreements. I also expect that many will disagree with me. So be it. By the same token I don‘t believe disagreement should result in groaning. How is that civil?
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  #716  
Old 28.07.2021, 15:52
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Re: Deleting My Account

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I don‘t believe disagreement should result in groaning. How is that civil?
I thought the point of the groan button was to signal disagreement & the thanks button shows agreement.

I have never intended to be uncivil to you, sorry if you have taken things the wrong way
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Old 28.07.2021, 15:55
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Re: Deleting My Account

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Jaja.



Nah, there is more of us. Depends on the issues, too.

What I do not understand is - somebody gets upset about not being agreed with and accuses others of "word twisting". Are those who think for themselves guilty of "word twisting" anytime they bring a different perspective? What happened to simply civilly letting others have different points of view?
That was not a point of view but a lie that you agreed with. The problem is, you’re a mod and your thanks for this kind of behavior triggers others to continue this inappropriate behavior, which all goes against the forum guidelines.
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Old 28.07.2021, 15:56
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Re: Deleting My Account

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Wtf? That’s a sick twisting of words. UM specifically referred to me. There was no mention of any other specific female.
You are not merely an "outspoken female" - you're woke , a feminist and an authoritarian as far as I can tell. I have no animus towards you at all - and even agreed with you now and again.
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Old 28.07.2021, 15:58
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I thought the point of the groan button was to signal disagreement & the thanks button shows agreement.

I have never intended to be uncivil to you, sorry if you have taken things the wrong way

Yes, I know, you‘re all about the banter. Thanks for letting me know it‘s all about my misinterpretation. Again. .

I think groans can be used as a not so subtle way to stop discussion.
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Old 28.07.2021, 16:01
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And indeed, if that‘s what happened here it would be all fine and good. But more often than not people are berated, groaned, responded to flippantly with snide comments or with rambling discourse that is unintelligible. I believe you are over simplifying and brushing off disagreements. I also expect that many will disagree with me. So be it. By the same token I don‘t believe disagreement should result in groaning. How is that civil?
You are asking somebody who past 13 years groaned 35 times and thanked 31 279 times.

I am so positive it irritates people . I guess it is a teacher thing. Or a mod thing.
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