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  #721  
Old 28.07.2021, 16:04
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Re: Deleting My Account

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You are asking somebody who past 13 years groaned 35 times and thanked 31 279 times.

I am so positive it irritates people . I guess it is a teacher thing. Or a mod thing.
You may see yourself as thus but other posters may see you differently, based on your history.
  #722  
Old 28.07.2021, 16:05
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Re: Deleting My Account

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You are asking somebody who past 13 years groaned 35 times and thanks 31 279 times.

I am so positive it irritates people . I guess it is a teacher thing. Or a mod thing.
I am asking in general, not you specifically. Maybe it‘s a teacher thing. Whatever. You asked about civil disagreement. That‘s my observation, it wasn‘t personal.

Last edited by ennui; 28.07.2021 at 16:22.
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  #723  
Old 28.07.2021, 16:05
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Re: Deleting My Account

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I don't disagree with your general point about bad behaviour, but as we've been discussing, it's a little exasperating to highlight women in particular here. Let's call out venomous attacks on PEOPLE. There are no doubt one or two chuckling trolls who want to focus on women but there are others who like to attack certain nationalities, personality types, or those who have other features that we can't do much about.

The frustration that a lot of us feel with identity politics is that it degenerates into a sort of verbal bun fight: "But my identity type is more worthy and more vulnerable than yours." This obsessive polarisation is full of internal contradictions and confusion: is a white woman more worthy than a black man? Is a poor white man more worthy than a wealthy black woman? And so on. Men / women, black / white, rich / poor, gay / straight... : all of these groups overlap, and all of them contain mostly nice people but some nasty ones. Why not respond to individual people and their individual behaviour rather than allocate them to groups first?

I'm sounding like the old hippy that deep down I still am, but can we not work on adjusting our thinking so that all people are intrinsically worthy of respect -- unless and until they behave persistently badly? It's so dispiriting to try to do the right thing, but to be dismissed and vilified simply because one belongs to some huge category e.g. men or white people or western or British, deemed (rightly or wrongly) to contain a disproportionate number of the badly behaved. Even worse, those who belong to a category whose ancestors were badly behaved. I'm fed up with being blamed for things I'm really not responsible for.

Unfortunately, it isn't nearly so simple, mindful this is a very specific mistreatment, based solely on us being women (that the men are not being subject to), and mindful neither the mod's, nor the other male posters, are trying to put a stop to the mistreatment we're enduring. We're being targetted by the male posters concerned for no other reason than that we're women with differing opinions.



I feel it's a great shame, the lack of receptiveness to listen to us, without jumping in with "but what about x". True listening isn't what is being shown, when we explain what we're enduring. The "what about" argument is a silencing technique. We've been subject to mistreatment and oppression based on our sex, nothing we could possibly identify into, or out of. We are women, and we'll always be women.



We've yet to be able to have any discussion about our experiences, owing to the "what about x" being launched at us any time we try.



I think it's also a great shame to reflect on the distance inherent in such posts, because it's glaringly obvious posters haven't taken the time to get to know even 0.1% of our stories of oppression and mistreatment, that are based on our sex, as women:

  • of domestic abuse,
  • of sexual violence,
  • of workplace harassment,
  • of stalking,
  • of groping,
  • of unfair pay,
  • of forever having to share offices and stages alongside men, as the token woman,
  • of men interrupting, or waiting to speak, but not listening, when women express something,
  • of "no" not being heard,
  • of women's consent being disregarded,
  • of men exposing themselves to girls and women,
  • of men standing outside of our homes or workplaces trying to force us to have conversations and relationships with them,
  • of women being filmed or photographed in dressing rooms unbeknownst to them,
  • of male police officers taking photos of women's dead bodies, and distributing them,
  • of male police officers raping and murdering women on their way home,
  • of women's rape and domestic violence shelters being invaded by men,
  • of women's rape and domestic violence shelters being defunded or valdalised if they refuse to allow men in,
  • of men campaigning to get legal access to our toilets and changing rooms,
  • of finding men in our toilets and changing rooms,
  • of men stealing our clothing to get off,
  • of men elbowing their way into women's online communities that exist to discuss women's health topics or activism,
  • of men occupying spaces in women's prisons,
  • of men in women's prisons raping and attacking women prisoners,
  • of men pushing their way into women's sports,
  • of men taking spaces in women's professional sports intended for women,
  • of men taking scholarships and jobs intended for women,
  • of men invading dating platforms for lesbians,
  • of men insisting that lesbians be receptive to sleeping with them,
  • of men making sexual remarks in ordinary settings,
  • of men contributing very little to the family's chores,
  • of men not carrying a fair share of the emotional labour in the home,
  • of men using the threat of rape and murder as a retort online when disagreeing with women,
  • of women being called unfriendly and aggressive, upon asserting boundaries and using a serious tone,
  • of young girls and women being described in terms of looks, and how well they're fitting with stereotypes of how girls and women should look,
  • of women being called girls,
  • of toyshops and advertisements portraying girls and women in terms of looks, and boys and men in terms of strength and ability,
  • of men campaigning to remove words like "woman", "women", "mother", "girl", "girls", "daughter" from medical and legal literature,
  • of girls and women being asked what they were wearing when they were sexually assaulted or raped,
  • of men cat-calling women just trying to get on with their day quietly,
  • of men shouting women-specific insults and slurs, and mimicking sexual acts, should women not be receptive to their advances,
  • of women and girls having to always check which men are walking nearby as they head home, and change course, or not go home yet, should the man be aggressive or try to force a conversation,
  • and so on, and so on.
We exist in a world where our sex as women is used against us in access to opportunities, jobs, homes, access to community resources, investor funding, research into medical conditions, representation in clinical trials, architectural design, rights and freedom to live autonomously, in the aggression we're subject to in online forums once our sex is clear, etc etc.
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  #724  
Old 28.07.2021, 16:06
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Re: Deleting My Account

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That was not a point of view but a lie that you agreed with. The problem is, you’re a mod and your thanks for this kind of behavior triggers others to continue this inappropriate behavior, which all goes against the forum guidelines.
Having a different opinion or seeing a situation differently is not lie nor inappropriate behavior.
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  #725  
Old 28.07.2021, 16:09
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Re: Deleting My Account

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You are asking somebody who past 13 years groaned 35 times and thanked 31 279 times.

I am so positive it irritates people . I guess it is a teacher thing. Or a mod thing.

They aren't positive, nor are they negative. They are neutral. What they are being used for determines their charge. Plenty use them to uplift (abusive/bullying/spiteful/inflammatory/aggressive) conduct. Plenty use them solely for their favourite posters, irrespective of what the poster posted.


It's 1 reason why I would do away with them, and groans and rep.
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  #726  
Old 28.07.2021, 16:12
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Re: Deleting My Account

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Having a different opinion or seeing a situation differently is not lie nor inappropriate behavior.
It was a lie. Period. And you’re a mod. FMF has the dignity to apologize, which I respect. Immensely.
  #727  
Old 28.07.2021, 16:15
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Re: Deleting My Account

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I don’t know what makes me more ill: the twisting of words to create accusations or the fact that two mods confine and actually thank posters for doing it. If this kind of behavior is what FMF and MC envision as freedom, I’m leaving this forum too. This is not what EF is about.
It's almost funny to see you complain about getting words twisted after obviously doing exactly that. Talk about projecting.

Now that you've realised that your cheap smears and ad hominems don't work, your next and equally obvious move is to play the victim card. After all you present as female and I as male, thus (according to the feminist narrative) I'm the perpetrator and you the victim by definition. Looks like that just doesn't work either, peole don't commiserate with poor oppressed you.

So what's next?
You've already used up the sexist card, and "beats them poor wimmin" is not an option in the virtual world. White supremacist would be new, too, but I don't give you that level of ingenuity or intellectual flexibility. So perhaps try rapist. Or child molester.

Hint: Nazi is also soemthing I haven't been accused of on here. Yet?
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  #728  
Old 28.07.2021, 16:20
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Re: Deleting My Account

Very entertaining when waiting for the tram. Please continue all of you
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  #729  
Old 28.07.2021, 16:21
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Re: Deleting My Account

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It's almost funny to see you complain about getting words twisted after obviously doing exactly that. Talk about projecting.

Now that you've realised that your cheap smears and ad hominems don't work, your next and equally obvious move is to play the victim card. After all you present as female and I as male, thus (according to the feminist narrative) I'm the perpetrator and you the victim by definition. Looks like that just doesn't work either, peole don't commiserate with poor oppressed you.

So what's next?
You've already used up the sexist card, and "beats them poor wimmin" is not an option in the virtual world. White supremacist would be new, too, but I don't give you that level of ingenuity or intellectual flexibility. So perhaps try rapist. Or child molester.
All I’m saying is that you accused me of something I didn’t say. Why should I call you a rapist or a molester and why do you even bring that up? It makes no sense.
  #730  
Old 28.07.2021, 16:22
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Re: Deleting My Account

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Having a different opinion or seeing a situation differently is not lie nor inappropriate behavior.
Back to the tolerance issue I have eluded to before, it gets worse as people age. My father thought Music in the 1970's was just noise, which I thought was weird at the time, 40 years on I feel an awful lot of music is just noise.
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  #731  
Old 28.07.2021, 16:23
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Re: Deleting My Account

Olygirl, what were you accused of?
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  #732  
Old 28.07.2021, 16:28
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Re: Deleting My Account

This thread has almost 1,400 pages. It must be a few pages back. Give me a day to find it.
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Old 28.07.2021, 16:29
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Re: Deleting My Account

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Back to the tolerance issue I have eluded to before, it gets worse as people age. My father thought Music in the 1970's was just noise, which I thought was weird at the time, 40 years on I feel an awful lot of music is just noise.
Isn't that a question of taste rather than age?

We all like a certain subset of all music (formed probably based on preferences formed during our childhood and teenage years) and the size and boundaries of that subset doesn't really change much after that. I think preference for things like classical music illustrate this well. We may like classical music because we were exposed to it during our early years. I have never heard of somebody suddenly developing a taste for it in their mid 50s.

It's just that our taste often correlates with our age group.
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Old 28.07.2021, 16:32
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Re: Deleting My Account

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It's 1 reason why I would do away with them, and groans and rep.
For someone who only just joined the forum you seem, it seems odd that you would have such a strong opinion.
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  #735  
Old 28.07.2021, 16:37
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Re: Deleting My Account

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I thought the point of the groan button was to signal disagreement & the thanks button shows agreement.
To me, while agreement is enough for a thanks, simple disagreement isn't enough for a groan. To me a groan is more like "what a <insert pejorative, e.g. illogical, low, despicable, etc, even stupid> thought/post". Generally, the ratio of thanks:groan seems to be something like 20:1, both given and received, which indicates to me that most people see it similarly.
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Old 28.07.2021, 16:45
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Re: Deleting My Account

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I think it's also a great shame to reflect on the distance inherent in such posts, because it's glaringly obvious posters haven't taken the time to get to know even 0.1% of our stories of oppression and mistreatment, that are based on our sex, as women:
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  #737  
Old 28.07.2021, 16:45
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Re: Deleting My Account

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Isn't that a question of taste rather than age?

We all like a certain subset of all music (formed probably based on preferences formed during our childhood and teenage years) and the size and boundaries of that subset doesn't really change much after that. I think preference for things like classical music illustrate this well. We may like classical music because we were exposed to it during our early years. I have never heard of somebody suddenly developing a taste for it in their mid 50s.

It's just that our taste often correlates with our age group.
I agree but respectfully disagree with some stuff, it is not as simple. Appreciation of complex music grows with the amount of complex music we listen to. That is neurophysiology. So we can train our ears to be more open.

Liking certain style is a question of familiar patterns, but also somewhat similar to sense of humor. I like really really bad jokes, they will often be Jewish, too, since I grew up with them. So, cultural. And also, some style of music goes well with the type of thinking, just like art appreciation, palate, etc.

Some stuff we like since it brings us something that we have lived, nostalgia. I like F. Liszt coz I won his record in the conservatory when I was 13. He was amazing. Wagner is terrible, I see Deutschland 1932 every time I hear Wagner.

I like electro noise since I understand what to like. I like goulash despite many people not being able to eat it, since it is heavy. Acquired taste. Like some heavy metal or weird things I played.

Open mind, open ears...open spirit and not easily offended, not taking oneself too seriously, makes an easier life.

And yes, people change taste and develop, we like exposing new and old stuff to our family. Some people in their 60s should preventatively listen to Bob Marley. Or Yello. Create new baby neurons.
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Old 28.07.2021, 16:47
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Re: Deleting My Account

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For someone who only just joined the forum you seem, it seems odd that you would have such a strong opinion.
It‘s not rocket science though, is it? One should have a good idea of the lay of the Land after a few weeks.
  #739  
Old 28.07.2021, 16:50
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Re: Deleting My Account

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For someone who only just joined the forum you seem, it seems odd that you would have such a strong opinion.

Could you explain this more please, as I don't understand your post? What do you see as odd about it please?
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Old 28.07.2021, 16:54
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Re: Deleting My Account

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Unfortunately, it isn't nearly so simple, mindful this is a very specific mistreatment, based solely on us being women
I didn't know you're a woman, your username does not flag anything up to me.

Other posters are more obvious, with mum/girl/chick/man or their name in their username.

I'm not planning on treating anybody specially on a mostly anonymous forum. As everybody should know by now, there's every chance we're all typing dogs.

I've groaned people in the past for flogging a dead horse, or coming in swinging without having been part of a conversation before, or because I felt like it. I shall continue to do so, I see it as part of the "gentle" moderation of topics where people get to see the line they've crossed. Or in Ticino Toms case, wonderment and amusement.
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