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Old 28.07.2021, 20:49
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Re: Deleting My Account

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If you plan on practicing what you preach, have you removed all other "culturally appropriated" phrases from your English vocabulary. I won't comment on any other languages you might speak.
If I become aware of a problematic term flagged as such by a genuinely marginalised group as opposed to a few dinosaurs who are upset that not everything is about or for them anymore - yes. It's not hard and I don't think my ego should be in the way of fostering a more inclusive and aware linguistic culture. I struggle with some terminology or just can't quite grasp the significance of something (yet) but if I don't know what the heck they are on about, then I should probably just accept that their space is not for or about me. That is entirely possible.

For example, I may not fully understand the concept of being non-binary because I like definitives where possible, however, if such an individual prefers to be called "they/them", I will do my darnedest to remember to use their pronouns correctly.

The reason that I cannot understand why some things are important is also because of the privileges I enjoy. Having privileges is not bad, but we should be aware of them and maybe take a breath before going full Piers Morgan on any new and challenging views that don't fit into our little heads.

The new and challenging bit is important: A lot of the pseudo-edgy "banter" I see exchanged by people who like to talk about "woke nonsense" is so generic and repetitive that you could use a Magic 8 Ball with the usual tropes and construct a popular forum persona by posting the responses that appear.

Mind you, I guess it's difficult to constantly produce genuinely new and original material when your average post count is slowly but steadily creeping towards 20 per day. Add to that the digging around for mud to sling and it really does become a full-time job.
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  #782  
Old 28.07.2021, 21:00
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Re: Deleting My Account

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Does that mean we are a very positive community?
Not sure. I have just been vaxxed the second time and don't plan to get tested anytime soon.
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It is like saying Jane of Arc was a feminist.

Everything is a matter of framing.
I prefer Mandela. At least he had the decency to be a real terrorist way back then.
  #783  
Old 28.07.2021, 21:15
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Re: Deleting My Account

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What a trash article And why is she so racist, hunting white ppl and others using the word "woke"
So what would Dana do if she sees how some people of what she claims "her community" give permission to us the rest to use this term?

In fact, cant you see how this is one of those "ordered" articles? It's like a template . The whole narration and you can adapt it .. for feminists being outraged how men sit on a train.. to climate defenders ...
To be fair, I had to find a resolutely centrist source to avoid cries of "[insert name of publications I would normally quote] is a leftist rag full of snowflake twaddle". There are numerous other examples available but I'm sure you can select your own sources to your liking if you genuinely wish to understand the assertion that using the term woke as a white person is not a good look when done without any malice and a terrible one when used pejoratively.

It's funny how people will spend a lot of time arguing points they feel 100% certain to be set in stone but not even five minutes on fact-checking their own beliefs properly - and it really, REALLY shows.
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  #784  
Old 28.07.2021, 21:27
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Re: Deleting My Account

Kittster thanks . I actually do question my beliefs -quite often. And love to be proven wrong.

On BLM I have a different opinion and it can be described to a degree with this video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hDsDZqU1srk
  #785  
Old 28.07.2021, 22:06
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Re: Deleting My Account

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Kittster thanks . I actually do question my beliefs -quite often. And love to be proven wrong.

On BLM I have a different opinion and it can be described to a degree with this video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hDsDZqU1srk
You didn't really come across that way in the thread so far but if this is indeed the case - good for you.

As for BLM - I don't understand enough about the actual organisation to express an opinion on them but I fully agree with many of the sentiments voiced. As a white Swiss person, I can only partially grasp the issues highlighted as - to my knowledge - the Swiss police doesn't randomly shoot people, irrespective of their skin colour and we don't really have "project housing" or gang activity taking the lives of kids with very limited opportunities. But intentional and unthinking racism very much exists in this country, as numerous posters and threads have posited.
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Old 28.07.2021, 22:12
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Re: Deleting My Account

Sometimes I wonder why people assume that the conclusions that their opponents made are because they had not thought enough, or fact checked, or do not command the language or miss some kind of special insight...or million of other things. I actually find that quite condescending or sanctimonious. Sometimes people just simply do think enough, fact-check, question, and disagree. I do not think relabeling things in complicated or awkward way makes people more open. I do understand the desire, though. I wish it was that simple.
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  #787  
Old 28.07.2021, 22:17
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Re: Deleting My Account

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Sometimes I wonder why people assume that the conclusions that their opponents made are because they had not thought enough, or fact checked, or do not command the language or miss some kind of special insight...or million of other things.
Because it's comfortable to assume, I am right and therefore anybody who disagrees with me must be wrong.

Throw in some science words and people feel even more right.

Especially RealScience.
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  #788  
Old 28.07.2021, 22:19
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Re: Deleting My Account

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Because it's comfortable to assume, I am right and therefore anybody who disagrees with me must be wrong.

Throw in some science words and people feel even more right.

Especially RealScience.
Thread split acrobatics?
  #789  
Old 28.07.2021, 22:22
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Re: Deleting My Account

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This topic thread is so Darwinian... Only the bravest, the strongest will survive.. all the others will quit and just simply lose )
If it is Darwinian - what would be the gain for those who feel more right than others... If I am right then I do not learn anything. I prefer not being right and learning new things, change opinions. There is a true Darwinian progress, in being wrong and changing direction for a better place.
  #790  
Old 28.07.2021, 22:28
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Re: Deleting My Account

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Sometimes I wonder why people assume that the conclusions that their opponents made are because they had not thought enough, or fact checked, or do not command the language or miss some kind of special insight...or million of other things. I actually find that quite condescending or sanctimonious. Sometimes people just simply do think enough, fact-check, question, and disagree. I do not think relabeling things in complicated or awkward way makes people more open. I do understand the desire, though. I wish it was that simple.
If it walks like a duck...
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  #791  
Old 28.07.2021, 22:31
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Re: Deleting My Account

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If it walks like a duck...
Well that does not sound too supportive to new vocabulary
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  #792  
Old 28.07.2021, 22:32
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Re: Deleting My Account

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Sometimes I wonder why people assume that the conclusions that their opponents made are because they had not thought enough, or fact checked, or do not command the language or miss some kind of special insight...or million of other things. I actually find that quite condescending or sanctimonious. Sometimes people just simply do think enough, fact-check, question, and disagree. I do not think relabeling things in complicated or awkward way makes people more open. I do understand the desire, though. I wish it was that simple.
I think part of the problem is that people will sometimes (perhaps often) filter information by rejecting information or facts that do not align with their beliefs or cognitive biases and only accept the facts or information that do align with their beliefs. So then it comes down to it not being a matter of what actually is or isn't true but only what someone wants to be true or doesn't want to be true.

Maybe some of it even just comes down to the way we are fundamentally wired, because our brains process information according to information that our brains have previously processed. Neural coding. So for many or most people, to abandon their beliefs basically requires them to de-program their own brains or to at least be willing to allow their brains to be re-programmed.
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Old 28.07.2021, 22:32
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Re: Deleting My Account

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If it walks like a duck...
it is maybe a former duck who now self identifies as a wolf.
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  #794  
Old 28.07.2021, 22:36
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Re: Deleting My Account

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If it is Darwinian - what would be the gain for those who feel more right than others... If I am right then I do not learn anything. I prefer not being right and learning new things, change opinions. There is a true Darwinian progress, in being wrong and changing direction for a better place.
Darwin spoke of the survival of a species, not the survival of individuals. Darwin's writings are full of examples of the death of individuals being good for the survival of the species.

Which is why we don't look to Darwin to solve philosophical questions.
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  #795  
Old 28.07.2021, 22:42
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Re: Deleting My Account

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Sometimes I wonder why people assume that the conclusions that their opponents made are because they had not thought enough, or fact checked, or do not command the language or miss some kind of special insight...or million of other things. I actually find that quite condescending or sanctimonious. Sometimes people just simply do think enough, fact-check, question, and disagree. I do not think relabeling things in complicated or awkward way makes people more open. I do understand the desire, though. I wish it was that simple.
If it is about opinions then everybody has a right to their conclusions.
If it is fact-based then only one side can have the correct conclusion.
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Old 28.07.2021, 22:45
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Re: Deleting My Account

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If it is about opinions then everybody has a right to their conclusions.
If it is fact-based then only one side can have the correct conclusion.
And that's a HUGE problem. So many people confuse their subjective opinions as being objective truth.
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Old 28.07.2021, 22:46
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Re: Deleting My Account

Actually Darwin said (or I have it wrong) because I really thought Socrate said "you'll find true wisdom once you open a tinder account" ... he said,
Hybrids are superior )

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Neural coding. So for many or most people, to abandon their beliefs basically requires them to de-program their own brains or to at least be willing to allow their brains to be re-programmed.
ok Pancakes, ... So, shot in the dark

Let's say if you can work on me or amogles, or MC .. I'm sure they wont mind that we use them for an experiment... If you could fix something with neural coding ) or just re-programme an element (that you find wrong , their beliefs or smthg) what would it be (you can use me but you dont know me enough as you know them)

ps/ I've been warned again by mods for just posting a drawing of a girl sunbathing with a cocktail... so if anyone feels offended my appologies and delete my comment.
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Old 28.07.2021, 22:49
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This topic thread is so Darwinian... Only the bravest, the strongest will survive.. all the others will quit and just simply lose )
That's not what Darwin's theory of natural selection means.

What it does mean is that those who are most adaptable to change will survive.
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Old 28.07.2021, 22:52
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Re: Deleting My Account

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I think part of the problem is that people will sometimes (perhaps often) filter information by rejecting information or facts that do not align with their beliefs or cognitive biases and only accept the facts or information that do align with their beliefs. So then it comes down to it not being a matter of what actually is or isn't true but only what someone wants to be true or doesn't want to be true.

Maybe some of it even just comes down to the way we are fundamentally wired, because our brains process information according to information that our brains have previously processed. Neural coding. So for many or most people, to abandon their beliefs basically requires them to de-program their own brains or to at least be willing to allow their brains to be re-programmed.
Which is quite automatic for anyone who is bored with always the same stimuli. Come with something new and watch the storm.

The fact that people still stick to old ideas might be because they frequently test them, other ideas might quickly change after a similar test.

But for an outsider, to be able to easily tell which ideas a subject tests and sticks to and which the subject tests and abandons...is impossible. Especially if this outsider comes with an existing bias that nobody thinks better and more accurately than her. If an outsider on top of the bias expresses a political desire to be right, people will hardly ever do more testing and reprogramming.

It comes to two things: the new ideas must be new but not too shocking, must be genuine and constructive, the desire to change status quo must not be pretended and it should not only hang on old systems and old ideas only with new terminology and relabeling. The last thing is, if it promotes more the speaker than the ideas, people will not listen. People will shrug it off as all the previous prophets and saviors who told them that everything was wrong.

Christians were super smart - the implemented change by accepting some of the old pagan rituals and thought system, and added some new stuff, spread it within a thousand years. And look at them now.

You can see new theories like religion, same process. Whether we accept or agree depends on many variables.
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Old 28.07.2021, 22:54
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That's not what Darwin's theory of natural selection means.

What it does mean is that those who are most adaptable to change will survive.
Pancake please)))))))))) Cant you see that I was joking ?? I said that the last time I went to a night club partying "only us who are leaving at 5am prove how Darwin was right . Only the strongest survive" ))
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