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  #21  
Old 06.01.2012, 14:19
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Re: Recording Phone Calls

As of 1/04/2011 in many commercial cases (but not in all cases) it is allowed to record the call WITHOUT informing the other part.

Please see:
http://www.edoeb.admin.ch/themen/007...x.html?lang=fr

Note this is not a replacement for a legal counsel and it is merely my own personal interpretation.
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  #22  
Old 06.01.2012, 15:06
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Re: Recording Phone Calls

Recording is not forbidden in Switzerland. But if a party wants to use this recording for legal issues, then it must notify the other party in advance that the conversation is being recorded.

If you annswer "yes" to the name it does not mean that you say "yes" to the contract.

BTW many direct marketing companies begin the conversation by asking you first "Am I speaking to Ms or Mr soandso?" In this case I ask "Who ist speaking?" I do not say "yes".

Normally, I say clearly that I am not interested, thank you for calling and then I put down the phone without waiting for their response.

A very good trick is also to pretend that the line is very bad and you do not hear anything. You may say "beg your pardon, what.... I do not hear you.... sorry" and then put down the phone. It works They usually never phone again

Last edited by romainesol; 06.01.2012 at 15:08. Reason: typo
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  #23  
Old 12.05.2016, 14:34
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Re: Recording Phone Calls

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Recording a conversation without all parties knowing is illegal in CH and you could, should you wish, ask the State Prosecuters to take legal action against this. The act of recording you without your knowledge is punishble with up to 1 year in prison or a financial "fine". (StGB Art 179 ter 106)
I have a verbally abusive employer/professor who is clearly more powerful than me. But sadly, no one believes me/no evidence. Only in phone calls and one on one meetings this happens. In this case, if I ask her permission to record she will be more careful what she says. In this case, can I record phone calls and one on one meetings without permission? can I use it as proof? thanks
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  #24  
Old 12.05.2016, 14:36
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Re: Recording Phone Calls

This is what I found online http://www.iflr.com/Article/1981621/Switzerland.html
I don't have that kind of money to pay a fine. rather quit my job!
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  #25  
Old 12.05.2016, 14:37
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Re: Recording Phone Calls

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I have a verbally abusive employer/professor who is clearly more powerful than me. But sadly, no one believes me/no evidence. Only in phone calls and one on one meetings this happens. In this case, if I ask her permission to record she will be more careful what she says. In this case, can I record phone calls and one on one meetings without permission? can I use it as proof? thanks
no way.
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Old 12.05.2016, 14:41
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Re: Recording Phone Calls

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I have a verbally abusive employer/professor who is clearly more powerful than me. But sadly, no one believes me/no evidence. Only in phone calls and one on one meetings this happens. In this case, if I ask her permission to record she will be more careful what she says. In this case, can I record phone calls and one on one meetings without permission? can I use it as proof? thanks
why not report to HR and then not be alone with that person.
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Old 12.05.2016, 14:44
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Re: Recording Phone Calls

Interestingly, in Switzerland it's not even allowed to use a home safety camera if you accidentally end up filming someone else in your house (a guest, the post man etc.). At the workplace, rules are even tougher.
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  #28  
Old 12.05.2016, 14:57
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Re: Recording Phone Calls

My adjoining lab mate complained to HR about her professor being sexuality abusive. Nothing happened and eventually she transfered schools. My PhD employment contract says I HAVE to work with her.and I'm the only one on this project. She calls me at all odd times at night and keeps sayin her position is much higher etc. Same thing happened to another girl but she was only 50% with this prof. So she is now full time with the other prof. I guess only way is to first find another profesor and then lodge a formal complaint. Thanks
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  #29  
Old 12.05.2016, 15:00
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Re: Recording Phone Calls

If she calls you at odd times just state "For quality reason, this call may be recorded". Record it. Done.

The number of calls at odd times should considerably drop.
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  #30  
Old 12.05.2016, 15:04
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Re: Recording Phone Calls

Sorry to hear about your plight. I would ignore the alleged illegality of it (I call BS on this when its self defence) and I would record the abuse without telling the professor and then play it to HR. Ask them what how they can help you. If they don't help you then ask them why and then consult the student's helpdesk (there must be one) or a lawyer. Good luck!
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  #31  
Old 12.05.2016, 15:08
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Re: Recording Phone Calls

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just state "For quality reason, this call may be recorded". Record it. Done.
Indeed, this would be legal.

Tom
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  #32  
Old 12.05.2016, 15:31
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Re: Recording Phone Calls

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My adjoining lab mate complained to HR about her professor being sexuality abusive. Nothing happened and eventually she transfered schools. My PhD employment contract says I HAVE to work with her.and I'm the only one on this project. She calls me at all odd times at night and keeps sayin her position is much higher etc. Same thing happened to another girl but she was only 50% with this prof. So she is now full time with the other prof. I guess only way is to first find another profesor and then lodge a formal complaint. Thanks




I'm sorry this is happening to you.

I'll add my two rappens and say get yourself to HR. Take times/dates with you and any recollections you have of the things that have been said to you. If they don't listen to you, go to the HR manager. And go again. If all else fails go to the head of the university.


You're a student, right? They have a duty of care. Chances are you're not the second person this has happened to.


Keep a diary/log from now on too.
Let her calls go to voicemail - you'll have a record of her incoming calls if nothing else, and if an unpleasant message is left then... she recorded herself. Done.


Possibly a silly question, but have you tried telling your professor how her words/actions/tone etc make you feel? I would suggest taking a third party with you (at least have them within listening distance outside an open door) as witness. If that isn't an option, then have the conversation in as public a place as possible. State your case - explain clearly how you feel. Write it down before hand if you must and read it out.


If it becomes confrontational, just walk away, straight to HR or another manager you feel comfortable with.


Good luck.
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  #33  
Old 12.05.2016, 17:12
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Re: Recording Phone Calls

Wow. Thank you so much everyone. I truly feel the help of the community.
Once I did put the phone on loud speaker and basically the whole floor heard her angry tantrums. She was outside of office. Voice mail only thing she says "call me back." Usually meeying are in her office behind closed door I have tried telling her, of course not using the word "abuse" but she says I can't accept criticism and trying to get out of hard work. The worst part is not even not getting my PhD but the crushing of my spirit and truly believing that I'm inferior and small. She has such a narcissistic personality that anyone who hasn't directly worked under her will not believe she's even capable of it.
Anyway, I'm hopeful after all the comments here. I will definitely try to implement some of the things you all mentioned. Also go to HR and find out what can be done for the next person to not go through this.
Hopefully, years from now, I can post a positive outcome about the issue. Thanks again
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  #34  
Old 12.05.2016, 18:38
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Re: Recording Phone Calls

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If she calls you at odd times just state "For quality reason, this call may be recorded". Record it. Done.
I don't think this is possible on a private number and anyway only if a tape comes on first before connecting to the receiver, which gives the caller the possibility to hang up.
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The number of calls at odd times should considerably drop.
This is easy to prove: Show the phone-log to the person you complain to. That is legal and might get them to finally look into the problem.
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  #35  
Old 12.05.2016, 18:46
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Re: Recording Phone Calls

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Wow. Thank you so much everyone. I truly feel the help of the community.
Once I did put the phone on loud speaker and basically the whole floor heard her angry tantrums.
Very good! But too general. Grab a mate when you put it on loudspeaker and ask him/her to listen in attentively for witness-reasons. That's perfectly legal If you don't live alone you can do that with the odd hour calls too.
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  #36  
Old 12.05.2016, 19:10
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Re: Recording Phone Calls

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I don't think this is possible on a private number and anyway only if a tape comes on first before connecting to the receiver, which gives the caller the possibility to hang up.
Why shold it be not possible? After you informed the other side about the recording there are just two options for the other party: Hang up or talk.
It is not like the other party has no joice at all.

Additionally, the goal is not to get a recording at all. The goal is to have peace from the other person. Either by no longer getting disturbed or by having something which can be used asa a leverage against the other party.

Here the law:
https://www.admin.ch/opc/en/classifi...x.html#a179ter
Art. 179ter Swiss Criminal Code.
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Unauthorised recording of conversations

Any person who, as a participant in a private conversation, records the conversation on a recording device without the permission of the other participants,

any person who stores or makes use of a recording, makes the recording available or discloses its content to a third party when he knows or must assume that the recording has been made as the result of an offence under paragraph 1 above,

is liable on complaint to a custodial sentence not exceeding one year or to a monetary penalty
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  #37  
Old 12.05.2016, 19:12
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Re: Recording Phone Calls

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Very good! But too general. Grab a mate when you put it on loudspeaker and ask him/her to listen in attentively for witness-reasons. That's perfectly legal If you don't live alone you can do that with the odd hour calls too.
Illegal w/o the other party's constent. Similar rules as for recordings.
You have to inform the other party that they are on speaker phone and someone else is listening.

Art. 179bis Swiss Criminal Code
https://www.admin.ch/opc/en/classifi...x.html#a179bis
Quote:
Listening in on and recording the conversations of others

Any person who by using a listening device and without the permission of all those participating, listens in on a private conversation between other persons, or records such a conversation on a recording device,

any person who makes use of information that he knows or must assume has come to his knowledge as the result of an offence under the above paragraph or makes such information known to a third party,

any person who stores or allows a third party access to a recording that he knows or must assume has been made as the result of an offence under paragraph 1 above,

is liable on complaint to a custodial sentence not exceeding three years or to a monetary penalty.
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  #38  
Old 12.05.2016, 19:28
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Re: Recording Phone Calls

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As of 1/04/2011 in many commercial cases (but not in all cases) it is allowed to record the call WITHOUT informing the other part.

Please see:
http://www.edoeb.admin.ch/themen/007...x.html?lang=fr

Note this is not a replacement for a legal counsel and it is merely my own personal interpretation.
that links leads to error 404 "Die angeforderte Seite ist nicht verfügbar. Sie wurde gelöscht oder der Link auf die Seite ist falsch."
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  #39  
Old 12.05.2016, 19:39
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Re: Recording Phone Calls

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Illegal w/o the other party's constent. Similar rules as for recordings.
You have to inform the other party that they are on speaker phone and someone else is listening.

Art. 179bis Swiss Criminal Code
https://www.admin.ch/opc/en/classifi...x.html#a179bis
I disagree. Your link says "using a listening device". It's interesting, in Germany it's illegal and not usable in court as you say (http://www.nuernberger-schluender.de.../Mithoeren.pdf) but for Switzerland I found nothing like that.
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Old 12.05.2016, 20:51
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Re: Recording Phone Calls

[QUOTEI] disagree. Your link says "using a listening device". It's interesting, in Germany it's illegal and not usable in court as you say (http://www.nuernberger-schluender.de.../Mithoeren.pdf) but for Switzerland I found nothing like that. [/QUOTE]
I found something interesting here that supports my interpretation but the outcome of that case will serve as a precedence (knowing how long court cases take in Switzerland, I use future tense). I'm gonna keep digging, I'm very curious, I admit it.
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