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Old 02.08.2006, 12:28
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Gun regulations

Hi!

I wanted to ask if anyone has experience with firearms ownership regulations? I know that for swiss citizens getting a permit is just a formality and the regulations are quite loose.

Can one own a rifle on the basis of a permit from another country?

Thanks
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Old 02.08.2006, 12:46
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Re: Gun regulations

Quite a delicate subject, especially given the recent number of gun-related domestic violence incidents.

I did know a guy on a non-EFTA B permit who owned at least two pistols, but he lived in Canton Vaud, where I believe things are not as strict as in German-speaking CH, where you would be optimistic with anything other than C-Permit or citizenship.

As for the process/cost involved, no idea. My first step would be to become a member of a gun club somewhere, and get to know a few natives. No doubt in time you will get to know a guy whose brothers wifes nephews cousins mother works in the WaffenfüralleschiesswütigeLeuteamt who can get you the permit.
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  #3  
Old 02.08.2006, 15:13
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Re: Gun regulations

Quote:
Quite a delicate subject, especially given the recent number of gun-related domestic violence incidents.
Well, think about it. Just about every house has a military weapon WITH ammunition! I am actually surprised there are not more incidents

Of course, the "gun-related domestic violence incidents" you mentioned litespeed, are probably from foreigners or non-Swiss persons.

I don't have the statistics or the knowledge to support my comment, just a gut feeling over the years.

I would be interested in some inside information and details from anyone holding a C-Permit that has registered a hand-gun.

Greets
Scott
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Old 02.08.2006, 16:59
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Re: Gun regulations

Quote:
Of course, the "gun-related domestic violence incidents" you mentioned litespeed, are probably from foreigners or non-Swiss persons.

Greets
Scott
Ture, a lot are non-native Swiss, but some of the highest profile incidents have been from Swiss shooters. Examples were the massacre at the Zug Kantonsrat in 2001, a swiss banking worker who shot his two bosses (ca. 2003) as well the death of a famous swiss skier this year (shot by her swiss husband).

But you are right, with so many weapons in so many houses, the incident rate is amazing low.
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Old 02.08.2006, 17:14
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Re: Gun regulations

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But you are right, with so many weapons in so many houses, the incident rate is amazing low.
What about burglary? Can you shoot burglars?
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Old 02.08.2006, 17:45
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Re: Gun regulations

Learning to fire guns was actually on my todo list when coming to Switzerland. I figured it'd be easy since everybody keeps a machine gun under their pillow
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Old 02.08.2006, 21:56
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Re: Gun regulations

Quote:
Of course, the "gun-related domestic violence incidents" you mentioned litespeed, are probably from foreigners or non-Swiss persons.
Actually for such a small country of supposedly peaceful people there are quite a few gun incidents. These often involve the military-issued weapon, and family dramas are often at the centre of these situations.

As litespeed already pointed out - these incidents have involved Swiss, and there have been some high profile ones recently.

Let me pose this question - are you absolutely sure that every Swiss man keeps his weapon locked, and the ammunition secured in a separate location? I think most would, but given that pretty much every idiot gets drafted into the army I bet there are a lot that don't take it too seriously.

Now let me ask a second question - people get angry from time to time (we've all been there right?) isn't it just a little too tempting for some to resort to their gun when pretty much everyone has one under the bed?

These things do happen, but often they aren't the lead story in the newspaper. Something I think the Swiss would rather turn a blind eye to so that they can continue with the fantasy that it isn't a problem.
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Old 04.08.2006, 01:28
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Re: Gun regulations

Quote:
Let me pose this question - are you absolutely sure that every Swiss man keeps his weapon locked, and the ammunition secured in a separate location?
I am sure there are both types out there, responsible and nit-wits.
Ammunition locked up? Probably not. If so, there would be a great market for safes in Switzerland.

Quote:
Now let me ask a second question - people get angry from time to time (we've all been there right?) isn't it just a little too tempting for some to resort to their gun when pretty much everyone has one under the bed?
You may think so, yes. And I feel the media does their part to make a big deal of any shooting incident simply to make an example of it, hoping that others will learn from the mistakes made by those who loose control.

One thing you don't see here, is the road-rage ending in a brawl or shoot-out on the side of the Autobahn.

Side note: DanielL asked about learning how to shoot, visit your local range and I am sure you can get some training.

Short Story: Being former US military, the locals here in the Rhein River valley asked me to join them for their annual Nikolaus-Shoot on the 6th of December a few years back (there were actually bets on those who thought they could out-shoot me). A bit hesitant I agreed. On that day the conditions were not the best, windy and light snowfall. I used a Swiss weapon (one of the new types) and was allowed six shots to adjust my sights. That year, I took home the award for scoring the most points above all those who shoot almost monthly for fun. Maybe a bit of luck... sure. Maybe a bit of skill... possibly. A bunch of ticked off locals.... you betcha
I wasn't invited back to shoot again

Have a great weekend
Scott
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Old 07.08.2006, 13:58
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Re: Gun regulations

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Learning to fire guns was actually on my todo list when coming to Switzerland. I figured it'd be easy since everybody keeps a machine gun under their pillow
I'minterested in this too. A few years back, at a corporate jolly called something like "hunting, shooting and fishing", we shot with pistols and shotguns (death to the evil that is the clay piegon!).

Ownership of a gun however, isn't on my list.
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Old 12.08.2006, 16:12
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Re: Gun regulations

Quote:
Hi!

I wanted to ask if anyone has experience with firearms ownership regulations? I know that for swiss citizens getting a permit is just a formality and the regulations are quite loose.

Can one own a rifle on the basis of a permit from another country?

Thanks
very difficult to purchase commercially, basically the Law says you have to have a C permit or citizenship, also the Article 9 of the Waffen Law has a strict criteria ( Understandably) on Gun ownership ( Link http://www.admin.ch/ch/d/sr/514_541/a9.html )

To get around the permit problem, which is only required to purchase a weapon from a gunshop, you can purchase privatly and the seller will make a contract with you. Best thing is to join a club and make contact with them. Pm me if you need further info, but please read the Law first and make sure you are exempt.
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Old 12.08.2006, 17:53
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Re: Gun regulations

Quote:
Now let me ask a second question - people get angry from time to time (we've all been there right?) isn't it just a little too tempting for some to resort to their gun when pretty much everyone has one under the bed?
It's not the bullet that kills, it's the hole.
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Old 13.08.2006, 14:32
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Re: Gun regulations

Quote:
It's not the bullet that kills, it's the hole.
Its not the bullet that kills you, its a bad person with a Gun
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  #13  
Old 30.08.2006, 09:49
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Re: Gun regulations

There was an article today in Swissinfo about the link between murders/suicides and access to guns in Switzerand. Here's a small quote:


Quote:
Tighter gun laws would lead to fewer suicides in Switzerland involving firearms according to a study by Zurich University researchers. Every day, one person kills himself or herself with a gun, more often than not a military weapon - a fact the authors say is directly connected to lax Swiss firearms legislation.
Switzerland and the United States – which both have liberal laws on the possession of firearms – report the highest suicide rates involving guns. In countries with tighter restrictions on gun possession, the suicide rate was lower.

But the best part is this:

Quote:
In a separate development on Tuesday, in response to a motion put forward by the Green Party in May, the government announced that Swiss soldiers may continue to keep their weapons at home during and after military service.

It added that current preventive measures, whereby a soldier could have his weapon taken away if there was proof that he might harm himself or others, were adequate.
You can read the full article here.

In something unrelated to military weapons, did anyone see the story in 20min yesterday about the 3 guys getting drunk and firing an uzi into a house? [20min.ch, German]

My point here is that these gun incidents happen far more often than we seem think. Are we turning a blind eye to it because it shatters our belief that Switzerland is somehow free of these incidents?
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Old 30.08.2006, 10:20
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Re: Gun regulations

indeed the "bad" news, the father-killing-family-plus-self, almost no mention of assaults and rape on women (but making car park spaces safer for them, for example) don't get huge press.

I think they mentioned limiting and accounting-for ammo; I've not seen much news featuring needing that second bullet when someone puts a gun in their mouth

Make a "proper" army rather than military service? I mean, PTSD could take it's toll after you've sat in a field for three weeks twiddling your thumbs
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Old 30.08.2006, 11:03
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Re: Gun regulations

Quote:
There was an article today in Swissinfo about the link between murders/suicides and access to guns in Switzerand
The key remark in that report is "involving firearms". ie, if you ask me, removing the firearms would not stop the suicide, only change the means. Unless we also limit access to balconies, razor blades, train tracks, etc.

In another thread a month or so ago I submitted a link to a suicide-rate survey. It showed Swiss rates were way up there - double that of Australia and 3 times that of the UK. At the time I didn't think of checking where the US came, although it would now be relevant. Can anybody remember which thread the link was in?

As an aside, and back to the gun ownership; I heard a good yarn that lots of Swiss tend to cross the border into France/Germany with their guns in the car boot. Apparently this is technically an invasion, and the cops frown upon it
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Old 30.08.2006, 11:12
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Re: Gun regulations

Quote:
As an aside, and back to the gun ownership; I heard a good yarn that lots of Swiss tend to cross the border into France/Germany with their guns in the car boot. Apparently this is technically an invasion, and the cops frown upon it
Is this carrying around guns in the boot legal? I doubt the gun is always removed when the car is unoccupied. I've seen two car crashes here in Zurich where the police were removing an assault rifle from the boot (and that was just passing by, rather than stopping and watching the show).
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Old 30.08.2006, 11:17
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Re: Gun regulations

Quote:
The key remark in that report is "involving firearms". ie, if you ask me, removing the firearms would not stop the suicide, only change the means. Unless we also limit access to balconies, razor blades, train tracks, etc.
Given that almost every Swiss man has a gun in his house I would venture to suggest that there are more guns than balconies in this country (especially if you restrict that to balconies high enough to kill yourself from). Ditto for train tracks, isn't that a lot of hassle - first you have to get to the train tracks and wait for the train. Razor blades? Most razor blades in the home are the variety that can't be used to do anything except shave (safety blades).

The point here is that the gun is the easiest way to kill yourself if you have an impulse to do it - the time taken to load a gun and pull the trigger is very short - less chance to change your mind. Throwing yourself of a balcony also isn't a very easy thing to do - but pulling a trigger is. Expand that to murdering a family member - which is easier - throwing them off something or pulling a trigger?

If your statement is correct that removing the gun would not stop the suicides then the report seems to directly disagree - see the section which shows a correlation between the reduction of guns and the reduction of suicide, as well as the correlation between gun ownership in a country and the suicide rate.

People will always kill themselves with alternative means, but the point is that having a gun under your bed just makes it too easy if you have the impulse (lasting only a few minutes) to top yourself or a family member.
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Old 30.08.2006, 11:18
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Re: Gun regulations

Absolutely legal and recommended as the boot can be locked.

Interestingly when I first arrived in Switzerland I did a bit of sight-seeing and on one occassion was a little shocked to be overtaken by a group of Hells Angels fully equipped with chopper motorbikes and German WW1 helmets with the spike on top carrying automatic weapons over their shoulders - I guess they were on their way to shoot...
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Old 30.08.2006, 11:25
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Re: Gun regulations

Quote:
Is this carrying around guns in the boot legal? I doubt the gun is always removed when the car is unoccupied. I've seen two car crashes here in Zurich where the police were removing an assault rifle from the boot (and that was just passing by, rather than stopping and watching the show).
I guess the boot would be the safest place to carry it if you were on the way to do your mandatory shooting practice. But the point about removing it again is a good one - how many people forget? It's like the issue with the ammunition - It should really be stored securely (i.e. locked) in a separate location to the guns. Question is, given that Swiss men are not "professional" soldiers can we be sure that they all take their weapon security seriously? Kids have a habit of playing with daddy's toys....
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Old 30.08.2006, 11:40
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Re: Gun regulations

I know it's getting away from the original thread but below is a link to the WHO suicide world table.
USA is surprisingly low considering gun owenership, although gun murders probably even things out.

http://www.who.int/mental_health/pre...iciderates/en/


Nick
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