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Old 28.09.2010, 14:14
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Medium format photography in switzerland

Does anyone here shoot medium format here? I would like to understand what the availability of 120 slide film and processing is like as well as costs.
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Old 28.09.2010, 14:33
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Re: Medium format photography in switzerland

I believe I saw some discussions about this already

as seems to be the case here as pretty much everywhere else, there are fewer and fewer labs.

with that comes a reduced quality of service as uncaring or unskilled people seem to do processing these days so dust and scratchs on film

profot might do some processing in Zürich proper. 120 in itself isn't that difficult to process in most film locations but they will send your film away which is sometimes a good thing(unrelated, but in the Usa, Walmart accepts 120 and that gets sent off to regional processing centers that give utmost care to the film, and all this at a ridiculous price of 1dollar50 a roll!)

because of quality issues more and more people are processing C41 and E6 (colour) film themselves. I was looking into this recently and it's amazing how cheap it is(you can actually save money compared to a lab job). Tetenal and Arista and some other companies make powder and liquid kits.

for processing here you're looking at 8+ per roll I think, then you can have scans and prints. 15-20 francs a roll.

a box of 5x120 rolls will cost anywhere from 35 to 50 some franks which isn't bad.


http://www.ars-imago.ch/-c-21.html


I hope to get into 4"x5" shooting sooner or later and that's going to be a challenge
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Old 28.09.2010, 16:03
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Re: Medium format photography in switzerland

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I believe I saw some discussions about this already

as seems to be the case here as pretty much everywhere else, there are fewer and fewer labs.

with that comes a reduced quality of service as uncaring or unskilled people seem to do processing these days so dust and scratchs on film
yeah. i remember taking 35mm slide to be processed at jessops and the guy didn't even know what slide film was! i had to fill out the packet for him and was glad it was sent somewhere else for processing and mounting!

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profot might do some processing in Zürich proper. 120 in itself isn't that difficult to process in most film locations but they will send your film away which is sometimes a good thing(unrelated, but in the Usa, Walmart accepts 120 and that gets sent off to regional processing centers that give utmost care to the film, and all this at a ridiculous price of 1dollar50 a roll!)
yeah. i prefer it when it is sent away because at least you know it is being done by somebody who deals with it regularly.

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because of quality issues more and more people are processing C41 and E6 (colour) film themselves. I was looking into this recently and it's amazing how cheap it is(you can actually save money compared to a lab job). Tetenal and Arista and some other companies make powder and liquid kits.
yeah. i thought about this but don't really want to be sat in my bathroom inhaling all the chemicals - and the issue of disposing of the chemicals afterwards.

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for processing here you're looking at 8+ per roll I think, then you can have scans and prints. 15-20 francs a roll.

a box of 5x120 rolls will cost anywhere from 35 to 50 some franks which isn't bad.
thanks. i guess on the film side if worst comes to the worst, i can buy a batch when i'm next in the UK or maybe even get friends to bring from germany. processing might be a pain but i guess at worst i can send to metro imaging in london and get them to post it back to me - thinking about it, it's probably more convenient than getting it done in switzerland and might end up costing around the same!

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I hope to get into 4"x5" shooting sooner or later and that's going to be a challenge
yeah. i would love to shoot 4x5 - but it's so impractical. i did a 4x5 shoot with a professional once. we had 2 suitcases of gear and it took about half an hour to set up. then we got harassed by several security guards even after we showed them our permits.

if there was a fast and convenient way of shooting 4x5 then i would go for this. by this, i mean able to fit the gear in a normal messenger bag and shoot without tripod.

i was looking at a mamiya 6 system and was surprised that it is still so expensive given that it's an 'obsolete' system and a 'dying' format.
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Old 28.09.2010, 18:14
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Re: Medium format photography in switzerland

Studio 13 and Foto Gwerder in Zurich will take 120 for processing. They both also sell 120/220 film. Studio 13 is more focused on pro studios and will not usually take small quantities for processing unless you buy a bunch of their prepaid envelopes. Foto Gwerder is related to Fotomaxx, a big photo printing and processing operation and sends their film there for processing.

Studio 13 sometimes has sales of soon to expire film, but buying from Germany may be cheaper. Foto Impex in Berlin has a good price for Provia 400x in 120. In Zurich, Eschenmoser is usually the best place to buy film.

The Mamiya 6 is a great system (I have one), its value retention is due to its niche - 6x6, collapsible, metered rangefinder with interchangeable lenses - no other system like it. Mamiya 7 is 6x7, non collapsible. Voigtlander Bessa III aka Fuji GF670 is both 6x6 and 6x7 but has a fixed lens. The older Fuji MF rangefinders have fixed lenses and no meter.
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Old 28.09.2010, 21:10
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Re: Medium format photography in switzerland

the Mamiya 6 and 7 are both strangely expensive considering how "old" they are but it's all relative.

I'd like to get my own 120 equipment (well apart from my Holga cameras ) as these past two years I've shot a bit with hasselblad cameras and loved it.

Also got to work on a few big projects with Mamiya 645 AFD with ZD back(22MP). Loved the system to bits even if this was an old generation with the green tint and a horrible image preview on the review screen.

any recommendations as to what to do about purchasing a camera?

it's really an impossible question to answer I realize that.

I am considering a Mamiya 645 AFD that can be had for pretty cheap with 80:2.8 and 120 back.

long term goal is to get a Phase One back(I love their Capture One software which makes me more inclined to their backs which are 645 compatible).

I could always go the cheap TLR route but with so much choice it's difficult to choose.


given the size of the 645 system you can all assume these aren't for street photography snapshots. I do a lot of architecture and plan on getting into landscape both things that require some good camera stability
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Old 29.09.2010, 11:13
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Re: Medium format photography in switzerland

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the Mamiya 6 and 7 are both strangely expensive considering how "old" they are but it's all relative.

I'd like to get my own 120 equipment (well apart from my Holga cameras ) as these past two years I've shot a bit with hasselblad cameras and loved it.

Also got to work on a few big projects with Mamiya 645 AFD with ZD back(22MP). Loved the system to bits even if this was an old generation with the green tint and a horrible image preview on the review screen.

any recommendations as to what to do about purchasing a camera?

it's really an impossible question to answer I realize that.

I am considering a Mamiya 645 AFD that can be had for pretty cheap with 80:2.8 and 120 back.

long term goal is to get a Phase One back(I love their Capture One software which makes me more inclined to their backs which are 645 compatible).

I could always go the cheap TLR route but with so much choice it's difficult to choose.


given the size of the 645 system you can all assume these aren't for street photography snapshots. I do a lot of architecture and plan on getting into landscape both things that require some good camera stability
is there really a point in getting MF digital back? a canon 1Ds (even a 5d mkii) can get most of the quality at a fraction of the price.
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Old 29.09.2010, 11:39
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Re: Medium format photography in switzerland

I am shooting MF using a Yashica MAT that i bought from ricardo for 80CHF. Stunning results. Films are still available almost everywhere.
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Old 29.09.2010, 12:44
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Re: Medium format photography in switzerland

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I am shooting MF using a Yashica MAT that i bought from ricardo for 80CHF. Stunning results. Films are still available almost everywhere.
a bit bulky, but can't argue with the price compared to a mamiya 6.

i don't really need an interchangeable lens camera, as i will use only with a single lens (35mm focal length 35mm-equivalent measured by horizontal FOV - i guess that is around 50mm?).

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I do a lot of architecture and plan on getting into landscape both things that require some good camera stability
i guess for this you might want a large format view camera and so you can easily control the focal plane.
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Old 29.09.2010, 12:55
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Re: Medium format photography in switzerland

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Does anyone here shoot medium format here? I would like to understand what the availability of 120 slide film and processing is like as well as costs.
Im don't do it regularly but I have a MF camera and most decent photography shops stock different types of film and can do the processing or have a lab they can send it to.

One thing you should watch out for is sell-by dates. I guess if you go to a shop that doesn't sell many this many happen. I once bought such a film and when I noticed the date (expired almost 10 years ago) I went back to the shop and the shopkeeper gave me a refund without any hassle, but it might have been better had I checked first.

Last edited by amogles; 29.09.2010 at 14:01.
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Old 29.09.2010, 14:04
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Re: Medium format photography in switzerland

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i don't really need an interchangeable lens camera, as i will use only with a single lens (35mm focal length 35mm-equivalent measured by horizontal FOV - i guess that is around 50mm?).
Yep, a 35mm lens on an MF camera does about the same as a 50mm lens on a standard camera. It's also the standard lens that many models come with when new.
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Old 29.09.2010, 15:24
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Re: Medium format photography in switzerland

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Yep, a 35mm lens on an MF camera does about the same as a 50mm lens on a standard camera. It's also the standard lens that many models come with when new.
The other way around, a 50mm on 6x6 is about a 33mm on 24x36mm.

There's a comparison table for 6x6 and 24x36 here: http://photo.net/equipment/medium-fo...gth-conversion

80mm was the "standard" for 6x6 Hasselblads and many Rolleiflex 6x6 TLRs.
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Old 29.09.2010, 16:23
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Re: Medium format photography in switzerland

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The other way around, a 50mm on 6x6 is about a 33mm on 24x36mm.

There's a comparison table for 6x6 and 24x36 here: http://photo.net/equipment/medium-fo...gth-conversion

80mm was the "standard" for 6x6 Hasselblads and many Rolleiflex 6x6 TLRs.
ooops ;-)
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Old 29.09.2010, 17:31
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Re: Medium format photography in switzerland

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a bit bulky, but can't argue with the price compared to a mamiya 6.

i don't really need an interchangeable lens camera, as i will use only with a single lens (35mm focal length 35mm-equivalent measured by horizontal FOV - i guess that is around 50mm?).



i guess for this you might want a large format view camera and so you can easily control the focal plane.
The Yashica is actually pretty compact and light. I used to carry around a Mamiya c330 twin lens monster- weighed about as much as 3 Yashicas/Rollieflexs. The Mamiya twin lens cameras had interchangeable lenses though and like you I liked to shoot slightly wide.

Moved on to a good solid Rollie twin lens and then to a classic Hasselblad 500c but I have to say there's something magic about the little Rollieflex (and copies) twin lens cameras. Surprisingly light and easy to use, and you can get excellent screens for them that are bright as hell. Totally silent function, no mirror flopping around. You get used to the 80mm lens. Worth looking into just for the fun of it. Waist level finders rock!
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Old 29.09.2010, 17:43
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Re: Medium format photography in switzerland

I've also used the KIEW 60. Of course it's nowhere near as sophisticated as the stuff you mention, but if you aren't a semi-professional photographer but just somebody who likes to play around with cameras once in a while this one is good value for money. Indestructible soviet-era quality based on looted German design, basically combinibng the best of both worlds. You can get them dirt cheap on ebay sometimes so they're good as starter cameras.
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Old 29.09.2010, 18:05
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Re: Medium format photography in switzerland

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is there really a point in getting MF digital back? a canon 1Ds (even a 5d mkii) can get most of the quality at a fraction of the price.
Yes there is a lot of point to it, but only really at a pro level for advertising work, or very serious fine art landscape photography.
I shoot on a Mamyia RZ 67 with a 28 MP Digital back. The main reason is the sheer amount of dynamic range that is avalable - the sensor is 44x33mm/6144x4622 pixels & the amount of detail that this produces is incredable & nessasary when the final image is intended for billboards or fine art work a few meters wide.
(BTW, also bear in mind that a 21MP, 1Ds Mk3 is hardly a fraction of the price - the body alone is 9K - add a few bits of top end glass to that & other gubbings & you can easily find yourself looking at 20k)

Having said that, I bought my digital back 3.5 years ago when the canon's still weren't quite up to scratch.
It's paid for itself & now that the Canon 1d & 5d's have most certainly caught up in terms of quality for my editorial work & certain ad jobs, I'm actually now thinking of selling the MFDB before it falls off a cliff on the 2nd hand price market & getting a 5Dmk 2 & some top end glass, keeping the RZ gear & just renting the MFDB when the job requires it (gets billed to the client anyway for ads).

I have a print on my office wall of a 6 frame landscape stitch from the MFDB that messures 70x200cm & that's just a third of it's actual size & the detail in the print & exposure is extraordinary.
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Old 29.09.2010, 18:25
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Re: Medium format photography in switzerland

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Moved on to a good solid Rollie twin lens and then to a classic Hasselblad 500c but I have to say there's something magic about the little Rollieflex (and copies) twin lens cameras. Surprisingly light and easy to use, and you can get excellent screens for them that are bright as hell. Totally silent function, no mirror flopping around. You get used to the 80mm lens. Worth looking into just for the fun of it. Waist level finders rock!
they do look pretty cool! i never tried one myself - even they aren't so cheap on ebay.

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I've also used the KIEW 60. Of course it's nowhere near as sophisticated as the stuff you mention, but if you aren't a semi-professional photographer but just somebody who likes to play around with cameras once in a while this one is good value for money. Indestructible soviet-era quality based on looted German design, basically combinibng the best of both worlds. You can get them dirt cheap on ebay sometimes so they're good as starter cameras.
i had a few russian cameras - they seem to be built with half a ton of metal.

i started to get the feeling i was getting a 'collectors bug' and so sold all of them before i started to descend in to russian camera collecting hell.
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Old 29.09.2010, 18:26
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Re: Medium format photography in switzerland

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Yes there is a lot of point to it, but only really at a pro level for advertising work, or very serious fine art landscape photography.
I shoot on a Mamyia RZ 67 with a 28 MP Digital back. The main reason is the sheer amount of dynamic range that is avalable - the sensor is 44x33mm/6144x4622 pixels & the amount of detail that this produces is incredable & nessasary when the final image is intended for billboards or fine art work a few meters wide.
(BTW, also bear in mind that a 21MP, 1Ds Mk3 is hardly a fraction of the price - the body alone is 9K - add a few bits of top end glass to that & other gubbings & you can easily find yourself looking at 20k)
medium format also has the advantage of keeping it's value longer as discussed here before.

MFDB isn't just about more pixels either.

dynamic range is the key reason for wanting this versus regular 35mm sensors.

I shoot aps-c format on a daily basis but this is going to transition to 35mm shortly.

MF / high res output is for specific non daily work
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Old 29.09.2010, 18:41
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Re: Medium format photography in switzerland

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Yes there is a lot of point to it, but only really at a pro level for advertising work, or very serious fine art landscape photography.
I shoot on a Mamyia RZ 67 with a 28 MP Digital back. The main reason is the sheer amount of dynamic range that is avalable - the sensor is 44x33mm/6144x4622 pixels & the amount of detail that this produces is incredable & nessasary when the final image is intended for billboards or fine art work a few meters wide.
no argument that for some work you need MF.

but my point is for a hobbyist a 5dm2 is a heck of a lot cheaper and gives good results.

is it still true that the 28MP back has better DR than the 5dm2?

5dm2 is 36x24mm sensor so the MF back you has about 1.7 times the area. the 5dm2 has max resolution of 5616 x 3744, so the MF back has 1.35 times the number of pixels (less than 10% extra horizontal resolution).

i assumed that canon's massive R&D investment could mean that the technological advantages (e.g. gapless microlenses etc.) could make up for the sensor size but i must admit i've not looked at any of the MF backs.
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Old 29.09.2010, 18:44
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Re: Medium format photography in switzerland

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medium format also has the advantage of keeping it's value longer as discussed here before.
MFDB is the photographic equivelent of driving a brand new car out of a showroom for 70k & getting 25k for it 3 years later
My MFDB was CHF 26k in Jan '07 & I'll be luck if I get 6k for it now & that'll be down to about 2.5 k this time next year!

Like cars, leasing is the way most pro's go with it now.
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Old 29.09.2010, 18:55
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Re: Medium format photography in switzerland

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no argument that for some work you need MF.
but my point is for a hobbyist a 5dm2 is a heck of a lot cheaper and gives good results.
I know - I said as much in my 1st post

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is it still true that the 28MP back has better DR than the 5dm2?
Yes, much.
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